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kkboldt

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Kim this post of yours is from men and always for men. It's just sickening to my soul. Catholicism is one of the biggest offender against God, but nowhere near the Great Mystery of Babylon...When Satan comes back only killing 2 witnesses of God, he won't kill anymore. He'll have the souls of many by deception. Besides the events is going to be in Jerusalem and not Rome. Stop this trash talking by perverting His Words with men's doctrine.Yea, I know, they just keep talking. The more they talk, the less chances they will hear God. Well that's my view anyway.
Maybe it's "you" who are "talking too much" to hear God? Did you ever consider this? I did once. And I listened. Are "you" listening? Or would you rather condemn than listen? Do you wish to take the childish route?Why do you keep saying, "this post is from men"? Not all men are wrong. Even Christina likes the writings of E.W. Bullinger and others. To say this is to accuse yourself, because you are of men and you read what men write. Roman Catholicism IS part of Mystery Babylon. The Pope STILL has a very large role in the religious, political, even the financial world today. More than you'll know if you follow the news and world politics today. Not all are lies. You'll find that there are those who are not afraid to tell you exactly what they are doing in the world today, even if it is sinister.The Papacy IS part of what the Apostle John wrote about. Let's look at the identifiable marks that John wrote about in the Book of Revelation:1.) His kingdom sits on "seven hills". Rome is called "the city of seven hills". Some may argue this is 7 continents, but no matter, it still works, I don't have a problem with that interpretation. But the Apostle John was only concerned about the KNOWN world. And his world was ROME at that time.2.) The Whore....Rev 17:3-4 "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:"(Even the coinage of the Papacy has a woman riding a beast with a golden cup in her hand. This is the golden communion cup. The Pope and and Cardinals are bedecked in purples, scarlets, and precious stones. The TEN barbarian kingdoms and seven rulers over those kingdoms)Rev 18:16 "And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!"(What great city sits on the largest cache of wealth in the world? The Vatican City)3.) The BIGGEST clue is, "in her was found the blood of the saints." The blood of the saints, the martyrs throughout history that were killed by Rome and by the Inquisitions of the Roman Church.Fox's Book of Martyrs will give you an idea of just how many Christians throughout history were martyred by Rome and later the Roman Church.http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/martyrs/fox101.htmRemember, this was a period of about 1300 years. 60-100 million Christians is not an exaggeration.Because there is so much, here, take a look at this site: It will show you all of the coinage, statues, art, etc. incorporated into Rome and the Roman Church.http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/dragon.htmThese things are a real eye-opener!The descriptions in the book of Revelation fit Rome and the Roman Church so well, there IS no other like it.I challenge anyone to find another in the world that fits these descriptions.If you still don't believe this, then by all means convince me! I am always up to good intelligent debate in an adult manner.Do you want to debate or debase? In which case, you'll get no where. For why will anyone listen to you if you condemn them?Give me a good reason why I should listen to you, Josy, Christina?What makes you so sure you hold or know all of the truth? Even I don't claim this.One who learns is always growing and changing. If you are fixed, you're not growing and learning. I've changed what I've believed many times. I'm still growing and learning. Are you?Kim
 

kkboldt

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And exactly WHERE in any of those Bible verses is the name "Satan, the devil, the dragon, or the Serpent", mentioned?Oh yes, Satan is behind many things. I do not deny this. But these passages are about MEN, not Satan, who do these things.You see, none of you who believe that Satan is the "anti-Christ" who will claim to be God, is able to produce in any of your verses of the Bible, the name Satan, the devil, the Dragon, or the Serpent being used in accordance with or associated with the "Anti-Christ".You see, I've already read most of the arguments you and others have presented. For many years I've read them. I have yet to see anyone convince me that these verses have to do with Satan.There is only one that is even close. And that is "and the Dragon gives the Beast it's power. But Revelation, Chapter 13, is about A MAN, and the number of his name, not Satan.Everything else is pure speculation and preconception.So let's get to the point here. Where in the Bible does it say anywhere that SATAN, the DEVIL, the DRAGON, or the SERPENT, are in anyway associated with anti-christ, or will claim to be God? I'm looking for specifics here. Kim
 

Christina

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Christina,I've never stated that I believe that everything is "finished". You're not listening. Nor have you read carefully through what I've written. Neither you, Christina, nor Jordon are listening. You are assuming things about what I wrote that are simply not true. You assume I am your enemy therefore you read certain posts with a preconceived mind.How can we have a friendly debate if both of you have closed minds? You are "fixed" in your positions. And God himself cannot teach you if you don't open your minds! He opened my mind. I pray he opens yours, too.Do you really think that God has not been actively working with his people for that last 2000 years? Kim
That may be true to some extent but I have been doing this for enough years to know what you are saying is not Gods Word he only says one thing the rest is mans misunderstaning /misinterptation of a book that was closed to them until the End Times. I am set in the what God says you want to tell me what men say I really am not interested in any man trying to open my eyes, been there done that used to think your way it was wrong then it is wrong now. God already has opened my eyes, thats why I said we will have to agree to disagree I cant not deny scripture for words of men you chose Words of men as your foundation then make scripture fit your preconceived ideas. God has his own foundation set by him. and your not willing to listen to scripture without trying to make it fit your mens foundation. You are right that None of your mens words will ever change my mind I have heard it all a 100 times before God can change my mind if I see scripture saying different. But your mens interptation of scripture without a full understanding of God plan from Gen to revelation will never change it.
 

kkboldt

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Yet, Christina,You formed your OWN opinions and interpretations based on what men wrote, did you not? We cannot avoid what men write. Not all men are wrong. You like to read the writings of E.W. Bullinger and others. He's a man, is he not? You believe what he wrote? Why? Because he can support what he wrote with scripture. I like him, too! The man was a genius! But I don't agree with all of what he wrote, because I like to make up my own mind.We cannot avoid what men have written. Some of what men write is the truth. But no man has all of truth, so we have to discern these things for ourselves. God will let us see what is truth and what isn't. "Rightly dividing the Word of God", that's what it's all about, is it not? And we don't get it one day, do we? It takes years! There's nothing wrong with questioning what men have written. That is why I have questioned what you've written as well as others here.To this, I think we can both agree. Don't you think?Kim
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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And exactly WHERE in any of those Bible verses is the name "Satan, the devil, the dragon, or the Serpent", mentioned?Oh yes, Satan is behind many things. I do not deny this. But these passages are about MEN, not Satan, who do these things.You see, none of you who believe that Satan is the "anti-Christ" who will claim to be God, is able to produce in any of your verses of the Bible, the name Satan, the devil, the Dragon, or the Serpent being used in accordance with or associated with the "Anti-Christ".You see, I've already read most of the arguments you and others have presented. For many years I've read them. I have yet to see anyone convince me that these verses have to do with Satan.There is only one that is even close. And that is "and the Dragon gives the Beast it's power. But Revelation, Chapter 13, is about A MAN, and the number of his name, not Satan.Everything else is pure speculation and preconception.So let's get to the point here. Where in the Bible does it say anywhere that SATAN, the DEVIL, the DRAGON, or the SERPENT, are in anyway associated with anti-christ, or will claim to be God? I'm looking for specifics here. Kim
Did you know that ANGELS are also referred to MEN as well?Genesis 19:1 - And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;...Genesis 19:10 - But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door....Genesis 19:12 - And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:So therefore Lucifer / Satan is also referred to a MAN!Revelation 9:1 - And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit....Isaiah 14:12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!Isaiah 14:13 - For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:Isaiah 14:14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Isaiah 14:15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.Isaiah 14:16 - They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
 

Christina

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Yet, Christina,You formed your OWN opinions and interpretations based on what men wrote, did you not? We cannot avoid what men write. Not all men are wrong. You like to read the writings of E.W. Bullinger and others. He's a man, is he not? You believe what he wrote? Why? Because he can support what he wrote with scripture. I like him, too! The man was a genius! But I don't agree with all of what he wrote, because I like to make up my own mind.We cannot avoid what men have written. Some of what men write is the truth. But no man has all of truth, so we have to discern these things for ourselves. God will let us see what is truth and what isn't. "Rightly dividing the Word of God", that's what it's all about, is it not? And we don't get it one day, do we? It takes years! There's nothing wrong with questioning what men have written. That is why I have questioned what you've written as well as others here.To this, I think we can both agree. Don't you think?Kim
No your wrong God showed me before I ever heard of Bullinger I agree with some things he says not all. I get my doctrine from God Word/scripture alone and then if some men agree fine. I was only confused when I learned from men first. I can tell/show you everything I say through scripture with no man involved I only use men for others. To help show/teach them what they are not quite getting or as a second wittness I Never never never take any mans word for anything if I dont see it in scripture first with Gods help. I have no problem if you question me, but because I know scripture I will not change what God has given me to see no matter what any person says.
 

Christina

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kkboltYou are Wrong Lucifer is Satan and many more names in scripture this is a basic to learning to understand Gods Word and his plan of the ages God teaches us by using names to depict aspects of a person, this is part of his symbology, His language on a deeper level you can see example after example of this in scripture Abram to Abraham ect, understanding the meaning of Names how God uses them is vital to understanding fully Gods Word and scriptures. God has a very detailed exact reason for everything written nothing is left to chance. Its just learning to build precept upon precept. Here is a list of thirty-three names and references to Satan/Lucifer/Devil in the Bible:(this is not nessarily a complete list) Abaddon - Revelation 9:11 "And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon."Accuser of the brethren - Revelation 12:10 "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. "Adversary (one who stands against) - 1Peter 5:8 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: "Angel of the bottomless pit - Revelation 9:11 "And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon."Angel of light - 2Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. " Antichrist - 1John 4:3 " And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. "Apollyon - (Greek Apolluwn, or Destroyer) - Revelation 9:11 " And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon."Beelzebub - Matthew 12:24; Mark 3:22; Luke 11:15 " But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. " (Matthew 12:24) " And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. " (Mark 3:22)" But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils. " (Luke 11:15)Belial - 2Corinthians 6:15 " And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? "Devil - Matthew 4:1; Luke 4:2,6; Revelation 20:2 " Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. " (Matthew 4:1) " Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered. . . . And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. " (Luke 4:2,6)" And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, " (Revelation 20:2)Dragon - Revelation 12:7 " And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, "Enemy - Matthew 13:39 " The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. "Evil spirit - 1Samuel 16:14 " But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. "Father (father) of all liars - John 8:44 " Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. "God (god) of this world - 2Corinthians 4:4 " In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. "Great red dragon - Revelation 12:3 " And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. "Lucifer - Isaiah 14:12 " How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! "Man of sin - 2Thessalonians 2:3 " Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; "Murderer - John 8:44 " Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."Old serpent - Revelation 12:9, 20:2 " And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. " (Revelation 12:9) " And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, " (Revelation 20:2)Power of darkness - Colossians 1:13 " Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son: "Power of death - Hebrews 2:14 " Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; "Prince of this world - John 12:31, 14:30, 16:11 " Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out." (John 12:31) " Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. " (John 14:30)" Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. " (John 16:11)Prince of the power of the air - Ephesians 2:2 " Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: "Roaring lion - 1Peter 5:8 " Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: "Ruler of darkness - Ephesians 6:12 " For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. "Satan - 1Chronicles 21:1; Job 1:6; John 13:27; Acts 5:3, 26:18; Romans 16:20; Revelation 20:2 " And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. " (1Chronicles 21:1) " Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. " (Job 1:6)" And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. " (John 13:27)" But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? " (Acts 5:3)" To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. " (Acts 26:18)" And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen. " (Romans 16:20)" And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, " (Revelation 20:2)Serpent - Genesis 3:4, 14; 2Corinthians 11:3; Revelation 20:2 " And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: . . . And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: " (Genesis 3:4, 14) " But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. " (2Corinthians 11:3)" And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, " (Revelation 20:2)Son of perdition - John 17:12, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-2:4 " While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. "Tempter - Matthew 4:3; 1Thessalonians 3:5 " And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. " (Matthew 4:3) " For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain. " (1Thessalonians 3:5)Thief - John 10:10 " The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly. "Wicked one - Matthew 13:19, 38 "When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. . . . The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; "2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
 

tomwebster

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Kim and Christina,As I read through this long post I find myself agreeing with both of you at times and neither of you sometime. It is easy to become so focused on one way of seeing things that it is difficult to imagine there could even be another way of seeing the same thing. This post, though, is getting sooo-loonng it is hard to know who is talking to whom so if it continues I think we should start a new thread.
 

kkboldt

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So, Christina,You disagree with Strong's Concordance which states the name "Lucifer" is referring to the King of Babylon and not Satan? You prefer to agree with Roman Latin version?And not all those verses you provide are referring to Satan. Yes, I agree some do. But I've already stated this. HOWEVER, many of those passages you provide are referring to humans, rulers of the world. For all we know these verses could refer to anyone.For example:The Thief? Isn't it Jesus "who comes like a thief in the night?" Are you comparing Jesus to Satan?Wicked One? That could be anyone. There's no reason to believe this is Satan.The one who opposeth and exalteth himself above all this called God? Well you've just described hundreds of kings and rulers throughout history who have done the same things. Even Nero, the Pope, Hitler, and Napoleon!Ruler of Darkness? I think you need to read that verse again. It states: "rulerS (plural) of darkness. We are up against the rulers of darkness in this world. This isn't referring to Satan. This is referring to evil men.Power of Death? Now that really makes me raise my eyebrow. Since when does Satan have power of Death? Only GOD has that. Only God has to power to give and take life.You know this to be true. Do you not understand that Satan only has the power that God allows him to have? It was God who allowed Satan the power of death if Jesus had not died for our sins. Now Satan has no power of death.Son of perdition? Man of Sin? Why do you assume this is referring to Satan? Satan is not human nor is he a man. This could be referring to anyone in general.I'm looking for those verses that state "Satan is the Anti-Christ" in these words. There are no passages which state Satan is the anti-Christ or will become the Anti-Christ. That was my original intention before all of this.I'm not convinced, Christina. But will talk more later on this.Kim
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (kkboldt;64895)
So, Christina,You disagree with Strong's Concordance which states the name "Lucifer" is referring to the King of Babylon and not Satan? You prefer to agree with Roman Latin version?And not all those verses you provide are referring to Satan. Yes, I agree some do. But I've already stated this. HOWEVER, many of those passages you provide are referring to humans, rulers of the world. For all we know these verses could refer to anyone.For example:The Thief? Isn't it Jesus "who comes like a thief in the night?" Are you comparing Jesus to Satan?Wicked One? That could be anyone. There's no reason to believe this is Satan.The one who opposeth and exalteth himself above all this called God? Well you've just described hundreds of kings and rulers throughout history who have done the same things. Even Nero, the Pope, Hitler, and Napoleon!Ruler of Darkness? I think you need to read that verse again. It states: "rulerS (plural) of darkness. We are up against the rulers of darkness in this world. This isn't referring to Satan. This is referring to evil men.Power of Death? Now that really makes me raise my eyebrow. Since when does Satan have power of Death? Only GOD has that. Only God has to power to give and take life.You know this to be true. Do you not understand that Satan only has the power that God allows him to have? It was God who allowed Satan the power of death if Jesus had not died for our sins. Now Satan has no power of death.Son of perdition? Man of Sin? Why do you assume this is referring to Satan? Satan is not human nor is he a man. This could be referring to anyone in general.I'm looking for those verses that state "Satan is the Anti-Christ" in these words. There are no passages which state Satan is the anti-Christ or will become the Anti-Christ. That was my original intention before all of this.I'm not convinced, Christina. But will talk more later on this.Kim
Kim, as I would like to say something more... Satan's name is also Death, noticing the Capital D...Revelation 6:8 - And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.And Satan is the Wicked One... Again a capital WII Thessalonians 2:8 - And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:Satan is the Son of Perdition. And the man of sin.John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.II Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;II Thessalonians 2:4 - Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.Why?Isaiah 14:12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!Isaiah 14:13 - For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:Isaiah 14:14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Isaiah 14:15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.Isaiah 14:16 - They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;...Ezekiel 28:2 - Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:Ezekiel 28:6 - Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;Ezekiel 28:18 - Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.Satan is judge first by God in the first Earth Age, which Satan is sentenced to death to the Lake of Fire before any human existed on Earth. No humans are judged by God yet.Satan is the power of death because he is Death Himself. Why does God's Words say He is the father of all confusions? (John 8:44, I Corinthians 14:33) So it's impossible for Adam to sin first before Satan did.I say this Kim, because I LOVE YOU SO MUCH!
 

Christina

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So, Christina,You disagree with Strong's Concordance which states the name "Lucifer" is referring to the King of Babylon and not Satan? You prefer to agree with Roman Latin version?And not all those verses you provide are referring to Satan. Yes, I agree some do. But I've already stated this. HOWEVER, many of those passages you provide are referring to humans, rulers of the world. For all we know these verses could refer to anyone.For example:The Thief? Isn't it Jesus "who comes like a thief in the night?" Are you comparing Jesus to Satan?Wicked One? That could be anyone. There's no reason to believe this is Satan.The one who opposeth and exalteth himself above all this called God? Well you've just described hundreds of kings and rulers throughout history who have done the same things. Even Nero, the Pope, Hitler, and Napoleon!Ruler of Darkness? I think you need to read that verse again. It states: "rulerS (plural) of darkness. We are up against the rulers of darkness in this world. This isn't referring to Satan. This is referring to evil men.Power of Death? Now that really makes me raise my eyebrow. Since when does Satan have power of Death? Only GOD has that. Only God has to power to give and take life.You know this to be true. Do you not understand that Satan only has the power that God allows him to have? It was God who allowed Satan the power of death if Jesus had not died for our sins. Now Satan has no power of death.Son of perdition? Man of Sin? Why do you assume this is referring to Satan? Satan is not human nor is he a man. This could be referring to anyone in general.I'm looking for those verses that state "Satan is the Anti-Christ" in these words. There are no passages which state Satan is the anti-Christ or will become the Anti-Christ. That was my original intention before all of this.I'm not convinced, Christina. But will talk more later on this.Kim
God's Word says these are all names for Satan we must put the picture together read what is said... he was created as Lucifer as we are told he was the most beautiful, full of knowledge Angel ever created till he became full of pride thought he should be God and set his throne above God. From the time of his rebellion he is called many things depending on the picture God is painting for us. He is the serpent in the garden, he is the devil he Satan, he is the man of sin, he will be a king of Babylon (babel meaning confusion) he is the prince of Tyre is many many things including The Antichrist appearing as a man as Angels often do as Jordan gave you scripture to prove . Read very carefully your scripture Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Subject Lucifer's fall Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: He wants to be God set his throne in heaven above God Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. He will be like God/Christ Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. The pit who is brought to the pit?? Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms Yes the Man that will make the earth and its people tremble when ??? at the time of the tribulation when he Lucifer Satan, the devil is kicked to earth Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, EZE 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Lucifer was created perfect til he fell 13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. As I said he was in the Garden as the serpent it is written here and Rev. 12 14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. He was the annoited cherb/Angel that protected the mercy seat before he became the acusser(see below) 15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. He is damned to perdition (to be utterly destroyed turned to ashes ) 17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. He was filled with pride 18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. turned to ashes 19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. The people will be astonished at this site (future not past)Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night here he is the accuser that is the same as the Devil in Rev12:12 it is this casting out of the accuser who accuses night and day that cause a 1/2hr. of silence in heaven because the accuser is gone he is here on earth. Woe to those on earth He is all the same the dragon the devil, Satan, Lucifer, the dragon, the son of perdition read the list I posted for you. Read these scriptures chapters carefully God is telling you who he is here and in many other places by using different names God depicts his actions/charactercheck here for some info or Google it yourself [url="http://www.christianityboard.com/names-you-need-learn-t8176.html]http://www.christianityboard.com/names-you...earn-t8176.html[/url]
 

ONELORD.ONEFAITH.

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I hope this helps, This is my understanding from Daniel's One week Period (7years) Since the Jews still believe that their Messiah is still to comethe anti-Christ will surely make them believe he is him. What other way to convince them by flattering them with lies and deceits and making peace with them something no world leader has been able to do yet. I really believe they'll think hes their Messiah and by examining scripture it appears thats just whats gonig to happen. The Anti-Christ is to going have to sign a treaty/cease-fire of some sort with Israel (perhaps for peace in the middle east) which kicks off the 7 year period. Daniel 11:21-24 "And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant. And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time."The building of the 3rd temple (its really the 4th temple to be correct) in Jerusalem will start around the same time.Then in the middle of the 3 1/2 year mark he will stop the oblations/sin offerings (the animal sacrifices) and set up the abomination that makes desolate. He will also proclaim himself as God. that will signify when the tribulation will reach its peak and from there there'll be utter chaos like never seen before.Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."Daniel 11:31-33 "And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days."Revelation 13:5-8 "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" Matthew 24:15-21 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."2Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.The Anti-Christ will also have his own right hand man "The False Prophet" Performing false signs and wondersRevelation 13:11-15 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.(The Two Witnesses Will Appear In Jerusalem For About 3 1/2 Years With Their Real Signs & Wonders Then Killed & Resurrected Within either the first or second half of the tribulation Im not sure)Revelation 11:1-12 "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them "The Vatican/Harlot System will be destroyed by other the leaders of nations at near the end of the 7year periodRevelation 17:16-17 "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.Christ returns at the end of 7year Tribulation Matthew 24:29-30 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."Then the Anti-Christ and his armies will make a last stand Revelation 19:19-21 "And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."Daniel 7:11 "I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame."Then The 1st Resurrection Will Take PlaceRevelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."Matthew 24:31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." By the way, it appears that we are not too far away from the tribulation, the Jews already have their vessels, sickles, etc. accordingly to the exact description mentioned in the OT and I've been told they have some stones set aside for preparation, and apparently have found a Levitical priesthood bloodline lineage ( not sure on that one). Check out templeinstitute.orgGod Bless
 

Christina

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I agree with your general over all thoughts heredisagree on a few details but all in all pretty closeYour first paragraph is right on. The Jews (judah) are under a slumber, they are a remenant that preserve the Law. They will awake from this slumber but not til after they accept Antichrist as the messiah ( along with many mislead christians) And by the way welcome to CB
 

OLd Sage

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Hi Josy,I'm having trouble with some of things you've stated.Why are "days" to be interpreted as "years"? The Bible gives us a clue.2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day".The other clue is that God told Adam "in the DAY you eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt surely die." Adam died in THAT DAY. Not just spritually, but physically. He did not live to a thousand years. He died before the day was up.So I ask, did God lie? No, of course not. Adam died in THAT DAY.This "day as a thousand years" interpretation is NOT soley owned by the Seventh Day Adventists. The Seventh Day Adventists were organized AFTER the Millerite group when Christ failed to return when they expected. The Protestant Reformers were using this day=thousand years interpretation long before the Seventh Day Adventists arrived. So I don't understand your point here.Are you arguing against the "day as a thousand years" interpretation or not?Jesus stated the 70 x 7 himself. 70 years x 7 = 490. He knew what he was talking about. The Prophet Daniel's prophecy. From the rebuilding of the Second Temple in troublous times to death of Christ on the Cross was 490 years. The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD was indeed a FUTURE event according to Jesus in which he instructed his disciples that all in Judea would have to flee to the mountains. "70 weeks shall be determined upon thy people." From Christ's birth to the total destruction of Jerusalem AND the Temple, was 70 years. This is the 70 week prophecy. So Jesus was pointing out TWO things, the 490 years of the prophet Daniel AND the 70 weeks from his birth to the total destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.So yes, the 490 DOES have something to with the 70 week prophecy. Because the 70 weeks is incorporated into the 490 years.THIS is the time Jesus was referring to when he said, unless those days be shorted "no flesh would be saved".What happened shortly after Jesus died? The Jews and Israelites had to FLEE to the mountains from the Romans! The PERSECUTION of the saints! It was THOSE days that had to be shorted or NO Christian would have been left to be a testament of Jesus. Millions of Christians were martyred in the years to follow.Let's look at what Jesus said again in those verses:Mark 13:14-20 "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.For [in] those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days."THIS is the prophecy of the coming destruction of Jerusalem and the PERSECUTION of the saints! The "abomination of desolation standing in the holy place" is when the Romans set up a statue of Jupiter in the former Holy of Holies where the Temple once stood. This makes perfect sense to me.This is NOT "latter day" prophecy, but an IMMEDIATE prophecy of the coming destruction of Jerusalem. Remember, close to 60 million, some estimate as high as 100 million Christians were martyred in the 1000 years to follow. THIS is time Jesus referred to as having to be shortened otherwise no flesh would be saved. Believe me, I fought with this for many years. Then I realized it makes perfect sense!The Bible is not complicated. It was meant to be read and understood in plain and simple language. The concepts and ideas in the Bible are quite simple. It's just that many want to make it more complicated than it needs to be.Remember, to Jesus and his disciples EVERYTHING that was to follow WAS the FUTURE to them.Even John wrote in the book of Revelation, "Rev. 1:1 (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must SHORTLY come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:"What does "SHORTLY come to pass" mean? It means the IMMEDIATE future.Now I'm not a Preterist. But we need to understand that MOST of Bible prophecy has ALREADY been fulfilled with exception of the FAll of Mystery Babylon, the Resurrection of the Saints, The Second Coming and Great and Final Battle of our Lord Jesus when he comes back to rule the earth!We've been in the end times for the last 2000 years.But since a "day to the Lord is as a thousand years", in God's time, it's only been a couple of days.Kim
Kim,Can you explain where in scripture supports this;The other clue is that God told Adam "in the DAY you eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt surely die." Adam died in THAT DAY. Not just spritually, but physically. He did not live to a thousand years. He died before the day was up.So I ask, did God lie? No, of course not. Adam died in THAT DAY.Where I read in scripture, "Altogether Adam lived 930 years and then he died." Gen 5:5, So are these actual years, or symbolic years?In Gen. 6:3, before the flood, when the sons of God saw the daughters of man were beauyiful and they married any of them they chose. "Then the Lord said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years." ( 120 years )But lets consider God's Law, the highest counting of weeks is 50 years, a Jubilee week of years. Consider 120 times 50 = 6000 years/Jubilee weeks. I did not need the teachings of the churches, to see that one thousand years is as one day. The Word of God, gives two scriptural witnesses already. And the Creation Week, gives me the example of God's Plan for mankind, in a 7000 year week. It's when we realize that God's Laws, were given in the middle of His Week, from a point in time He counted and told to Moses, in Egypt, 430 years to the day. That we have to determine that date of. Why?, because all of prophecy and the last half of God's Week, the end times of God's Plan, start from this point in God's chosen peoples time. The giving of the Law, the Feasts, all revolve around the keeping of the Sabbath, the counting of weeks, and fully observing God's decrees and commands.Moses did not enter the promised Land, Joshua did.! Surly you know the reason. From Joshua to the Babylon exile, the reason was the same, God Blessed them when they followed his Laws and commands, God punished them, when they failed to follow the Law and His commands.We have all read it in scripture, I don't have to cite scripture for you. But I will give an example, in 2 Chron. 34, King Josiah, after the finding of the 'Book of the Covenant' read it as he stood by his pillar in the Temple, and in chap. 35, Josiah celebrated the Passover (vers. 18) then you would think they had God's blessing, but Josiah went out to battle the king of Egypt, king Neco warned Josiah, and Josiah was killed. So God was with Neco, even though Josiah renewed the covenant, but did not observe the Law, where? read verses 11-14. (in your bible)11, The Passover Lambs were slaughtered, the priests sprinkled the blood handed to them, while the (Levites skinned the animals.) 12, They set aside the burnt offerings to give them to the subdivisions of the families of the people to offer to the Lord, as is witten in the Book of Moses. (They did the same with the cattle.)13, They roasted the Passover animals over the fire as prescribed, (and boiled the holy offerings in pots, caldrons and pans and served them quickly to all the people.) 14, After this, (they made preparations for themselves and for the priests, because the priests, the descendants of Aaron, were sacrificing the burnt offerings and the fat portions until nightfall. So the Levites made preparations for themselves and for the Aaronic priests.)How does this compare with what is written in the Law? The first Passover? (Ex. 12:24,25) Or Lev. 22:28, 23:4-14, and Num. 28:16-25.Do we understand, that Josiah did not have God's blessings, for not observing fully God's commands, and even the following kings to the Babylon Exile. Which was to last for seventy years, as told to the Prophet Jeremiah, which Daniel was aware of before his prayer, and the answer given to him, by God through the messenger Gabriel.The message can only be understood by God's commands and Laws, the Feasts appointed by God, for His Annointed One, the Lamb of God, His Son Jesus, the Christ. The message of Seventy weeks, is for God's people, for the 2nd Temple (period of Daniel), 3rd Temple (period of God's Lamb, Jesus) which ended in 70 A.D. and the End Time Temple.The message of Seventy weeks is for God's people, in exile, in the return, in the building the Holy City, walls and streets (then and now), for all the anti-christ Jews (then and now), for all the Jewish Christians (then and now) [ JewsforJesus.org], for all the Jews that returned in 1948 (then to now) and are waiting for the Annointed One of God, and the 69th week of Israel. Why? Because they are still counting the weeks, the devout are keeping the Sabbaths, and Feasts. Counting and numbering the Jewish years, from the first month Abib/Nisan.So it's the generation that witnessed the Fig Tree, sprout leaves in 1948, the Jew and the Gentile belivers of the promise, in the end time of God's Plan. All of God's Word, from Genesis to Revelation, is of the Promise of Redemption and Salvation, in all of God's covenants, by observing God's Laws. At almost the end of the second exile, God sends a message of the new covenant, through His Lamb, His Son Jesus, at God's appointed time. In the Scripture, at a point in time counted by God, He gave His Commands to Moses, as the first month, the first Passover, the counting of weeks to keep the Sabbaths, (days, years, Jubilees) from generation to generation forever. God also states, if you do not keep my Sabbaths, Heaven and Earth will keep the Sabbaths, as witness against you. For over 2000 years the Jews, have kept the Passover, at the appointed time, without the temple. For over 2000 years Christians of the New Covenant, have kept the Feast, and await the return of Jesus, the Christ. The return to Israel in 1948, was an appointed time. The count began with Joshua, in the Promised Land, from the Laws given to Moses. The counting of weeks, is in keeping with God's Clock of time. The Seventy Weeks message give to Daniel, reveals the appointed times of God, as given to Moses in the middle of God's 7000 year week. The counting of 70 Jubilees, is a time of 3500 years. This time shortened by 70 years, is 3,430 years, (70x7=490 years, 490x7= 3,430 years.) After the 67th Jubilee in 1944, Israel became a state in 1948/5708 C.E., the 68th Jubilee, in 1994/5754, is one hundred years short of the 70th Week/Jubilee. The 69th Jubilee, in 2044/5804 C.E., the year 2024/5784 C.E. is the 3,430 th year. Israel's 70th year is coming up, 5708 + 70 is 5778 C.E./2018, that leaves a period of six years, or seven years counted from 1947/5707, ( 5707 + 70 = 5777/2017 to 5784/2024 is a week of seven years), before the 69th Week of Israel, counted from Joshua in 1406 B.C./2354 C.E. an appointed time of God, when Joshua crossed the Jordan River, on what day?It was more than 490 years, from the message given to Daniel, and the message given to Mary, by the same messenger. The period from 539 B.C. to 7 B.C. is more than 490 years, its 532 years, the message of Seventy Weeks, reveal the symbolic month of Abib, as in 539 B.C., as in 7 B.C., and 6 B.C.(birth of Jesus), as in 31 A.D. and 70 A.D., of the Jewish year calendar. (insight hint; even the fourth day of the Creation Week, points to Jesus and the symbolic month)Peace,Old Sage
 

precepts

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Feb 24, 2008
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Onelord's
I hope this helps, This is my understanding from Daniel's One week Period (7years)Since the Jews still believe that their Messiah is still to comethe anti-Christ will surely make them believe he is him. What other way to convince them by flattering them with lies and deceits and making peace with them something no world leader has been able to do yet. I really believe they'll think hes their Messiah and by examining scripture it appears thats just whats gonig to happen.
In these days and times is it possible for one man to rule the world? In this physical world world where most people don't believe in the supernatural, one man will rule and control selling and buying? How can he enforce such a law unless he controls the human population? Onelord's
The Anti-Christ is to going have to sign a treaty/cease-fire of some sort with Israel (perhaps for peace in the middle east) which kicks off the 7 year period.
That's your interpretation.
Daniel 11:21-24 "And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant. And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time."
This has been one of the most "out of context" verses used in the bible to support antichrist teachings. The kings of the north and south are the remnants of the Grecian empire that was divided into four horns. The king of the north is the little horn that came up among the four, the Antiochus dynasty. The name of the king that actually committed these acts is Antiochus III (the Great). It is historically documented that Antiochus III ended the priestly lineage of Aaron, the Zadoc lineage, the prince of the covenant and thru peace appointed his own Jewish hellenized high priest to the temple.Onelord's
The building of the 3rd temple (its really the 4th temple to be correct) in Jerusalem will start around the same time.
Any person that calls themselves a christian and believes in the rebirth of Jerusalem is an antichrist because they're denying Christ's new covenant and claiming that Christ is for a people that denied him. He that confesses christ is come in the flesh is of God. He that denies is not. Onelord's
Then in the middle of the 3 1/2 year mark he will stop the oblations/sin offerings (the animal sacrifices) and set up the abomination that makes desolate. He will also proclaim himself as God. that will signify when the tribulation will reach its peak and from there there'll be utter chaos like never seen before.
Once again this verse is referring to Antiochus III(the Great).Onelord's
Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
You're mixing prophecies. It's about the context. That period is actually during Exra's and Jeremiah's time, the ended of the 70yrs from Cyrus' decree, around 439bc.Onelord's
Daniel 11:31-33 "And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days."
Antiochus III. Onelord's
Revelation 13:5-8 "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"
This is referring to the eighth of the ten horned beast of Rome not Greece. The eighth horn of Rome is not the little horn of Greece.Onelord's
Matthew 24:15-21 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
This abomination of desolation is not done by secrecy or flattery. It is the destruction of the temple by the eighth of the tenth horned beast of Rome not the little horn of Greece.Onelord's
2Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
"Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed." Once again this is the eighth horn of Rome's ten. Onelord's
The Anti-Christ will also have his own right hand man "The False Prophet" Performing false signs and wondersRevelation 13:11-15 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
The false prophet is the 11th horn, the lil horn of Rome that plucks up three of the ten horns.Onelord's
(The Two Witnesses Will Appear In Jerusalem For About 3 1/2 Years With Their Real Signs & Wonders Then Killed & Resurrected Within either the first or second half of the tribulation Im not sure)
Why would they appear in an antichrist spirited Jerusalem with antichrist spirited people. The Jews just like all others that deny Christ are antichrist and will not be saved.Onelord's
The Vatican/Harlot System will be destroyed by other the leaders of nations at near the end of the 7year periodRevelation 17:16-17 "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
The ten horns are ten kings of Rome not of other nations and thats a fact: Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. Onelord's
Christ returns at the end of 7year Tribulation Matthew 24:29-30 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
That's really the 1st ressurection in 98ad. The tribulation period is the from the little horn of Grecia to the 11th horn of Rome, the destruction of the temple, abomination of desolation, the mark institued, etc.
Then the Anti-Christ and his armies will make a last stand Revelation 19:19-21 "And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."
Once again this occurs in heaven.Rev 19:11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] like a flame of fire, and on His head [were] many crowns. He had [fn] a name written that no one knew except Himself. Rev 19:13 He [was] clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. Rev 19:14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, [fn] followed Him on white horses. Rev 19:15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp [fn] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Onelord's
Daniel 7:11 "I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame."
The lil horn/11th horn of Rome and the eighth horn(beast).Onelord's
Then The 1st Resurrection Will Take PlaceRevelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
That's the 2nd ressurection, what happened to the 144,000 and the great multitude that reigned with Christ for the 1,000 yrs before the war of Gog and Magog when Satan was released?Onelord's
Matthew 24:31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
That's the 3rd ressurection. The harvest of the wheat and the tares in the God's barn, the New Jerusalem.Onelord's
By the way, it appears that we are not too far away from the tribulation, the Jews already have their vessels, sickles, etc. accordingly to the exact description mentioned in the OT and I've been told they have some stones set aside for preparation, and apparently have found a Levitical priesthood bloodline lineage ( not sure on that one).
No man knows the time or the hour. You're being mislead. The covenant between God and the Jews is no more. You're being antichrist.
 

Christina

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(quote)No man knows the time or the hour. You're being mislead. The covenant between God and the Jews is no more. You're being antichrist. (quote)_____Precepts when are you going to start listening to God and stop with your own interpetations God never never breaks a promise ... Jews are under a slumber til the time of the gentile be fulfilled Judah, todays jews have as big apart in God promise as you and I try reading Eze 37 they are two sticks Christian(thru Joseph sons) and Judha todays Jews rejoined... follow God not your own theroys
 

precepts

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Christina's
Precepts when are you going to start listening to God and stop with your own interpetations God never never breaks a promise ...
So what about Exodus 32 where God was going to make a nation of Moses and forsake Israel? Was God joking?
Exd 32:7 And the LORD said to Moses, "Go, get down! For your people whom you brought out of the land of Egypt have corrupted [themselves]. Exd 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them. They have made themselves a molded calf, and worshiped it and sacrificed to it, and said, 'This [is] your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!' " Exd 32:9 And the LORD said to Moses, "I have seen this people, and indeed it [is] a stiff-necked people! Exd 32:10 Now therefore, let Me alone, that My wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them. And I will make of you a great nation."
Chris'
Jews are under a slumber til the time of the gentile be fulfilled Judah
Verses?Chris'
todays jews have as big apart in God promise as you and I try reading Eze 37 they are two sticks Christian(thru Joseph sons) and Judha todays Jews rejoined... follow God not your own theroys
Ezekiel took place before the rebuilding of the temple which would mean the sticks were the rebirth of the nation after Babylon's captivity under Joshua, the son of Josedech, and Zerobbabel physically, but Christ was also referring to a spiritual kingdom of which there will be no end, not "modern-day" Israelis. For example in the same chapter:
Eze 37:22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. Eze 37:23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God. Eze 37:24 "David My servant [shall be] king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. Eze 37:25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children's children, forever; and My servant David [shall be] their prince forever.
How do you explain that?
Deu 29:24 Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this land? what [meaneth] the heat of this great anger? Deu 29:25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt: Deu 29:26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and [whom] he had not given unto them: Deu 29:27 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book: Deu 29:28 And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as [it is] this day. Deu 29:29 The secret [things belong] unto the LORD our God: but those [things which are] revealed [belong] unto us and to our children for ever, that [we] may do all the words of this law.
I know where you're coming from but, like the Jews of Christ's time and modern day Christianity's carnal mindedness, you're going to miss the bridegroom. Remember the parable of the "Great Supper":
Luk 14:16 Then He said to him, "A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, Luk 14:17 and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, 'Come, for all things are now ready.' Luk 14:18 But they all with one [accord] began to make excuses. The first said to him, 'I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.' Luk 14:19 And another said, 'I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.' Luk 14:20 Still another said, 'I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.' Luk 14:21 So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, 'Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here [the] poor and [the] maimed and [the] lame and [the] blind.' Luk 14:22 And the servant said, 'Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.' Luk 14:23 Then the master said to the servant, 'Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel [them] to come in, that my house may be filled. Luk 14:24 For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.' "
Guess whom where the invited and whom where the unintended guests. Don't be fooled by carnal doctrine.
 

logabe

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Jesus came as the Lion of the tribe of Judah the first time, in order to secure His throne rights as the Messiah. He comes the second time to the tribes of Joseph in order to secure His birthright, which is His Kingdom. This is apparent to those who have studied the two works of Christ as foretold in the law. Thus, His second work repairs the breach, as foretold Ezekiel 37.When Israel and Judah split into two nations, the birthright went to the north, while the Messianic line remained with Judah in the south. When Assyria deported the House of Israel, they took the birthright captive. It was the Kingdom itself that went into captivity, with all that this term implies. Most are content to lose the tribes of Joseph in Assyria. Most are content to call them "the lost tribes of Israel," or "the lost sheep of the House of Israel" (Matt. 10:6). As Ezekiel foretold, the shepherds refused to search and seek them out, saying, "neither have ye sought that which was lost" (Ezek. 34:4). Therefore, God said, "Behold, I, even I, will both search My sheep, and seek them out" (Ezek. 34:11). Toward the end of his prophecy, Ezekiel identified the people of whom he speaks: "Thus shall they know that. they, even the House of Israel, are My people" (Ezek. 34:30).God was not content to allow the birthright to be lost, for the Kingdom is His Bride who must birth the Manchild. The Messiah is the King; the House of Israel was His Wife. It takes both Husband and Wife to bring forth the Sons. The underlying story of the Bible and of all history is how Jesus ascended to the heavens, so that He would be able to direct the events of history to redeem His people, the lost sheep of the House of Israel-in order that He might invite her into His Tabernacle to conceive and birth the Manchild.This is not a minor theme. It is central to the entire Bible story, and is the goal of history.Until recently, the Jews never claimed to be descendants of the lost House of Israel. In fact, they still agree that they are descended only from the remnant of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi that returned from Babylon under Zerubbabel. While there may be certain individuals of all tribes in that remnant, the heads of the lost tribes held the tribes' birthright. The tribeship itself was located with those birthright holders, who had been deported to Assyria and never returned.In 1948, the Jews proclaimed the official name of their new nation to be Israel. They knew better, but it was a masterful stroke of genius, for this illegal usurpation of the name given to the tribes of Joseph gave the Christian world the impression that their nation was the fulfillment of the biblical prophecies about the restoration of the House of Israel. It has been worth billions of dollars in aid and donations. The Christian world immediately threw their support behind that state and boldly proclaimed that the rapture would take place any moment now, the tribulation was nigh, and the Jews were soon to be all converted to Christ.Obviously, this did not take place. The failure of this prophecy had much to do with the great deception that the new state of "Israel" was somehow the restored House of Israel. But neither the Jews today nor the original Judah nation had the right to call themselves Israel. The Jews themselves are well aware that they are not descended from the lost House of Israel. They do not carry the birthright of Joseph, nor are they in any way the restored Kingdom of God upon the earth. At best, that nation might be called Judah.Today's so-called nation of Israel is actually only a Jewish state fulfilling Jesus' New Testament prophecies. It is fulfilling Jesus' prophecies of the fig tree that was to bring forth more leaves (but no Fruit) described in Matthew 21 and 24. Not once did Jesus even hint that this "fig tree" would ever bring forth the Fruits of the Kingdom. In fact, He continually prophesied its eventual destruction after God had given it one final opportunity to bear Fruit.Once Jesus was born of the line of Judah and secured His throne rights, Judah's prophetic role in the salvation of the world was concluded. Thus, the destruction of the remnant of Judah in 70 A.D. proves that Judah had fulfilled its call in that regard. All that remained was to bring that cursed "fig tree" back to life, allow it to bring forth more leaves for a season, and then cut down the tree if it still remained barren of Fruit.Yet the fate of this remnant of Judah does not adversely affect the Plan of God to establish His Kingdom. The Kingdom was not resident in Judah, but in Israel. The prophet Ahijah had decreed the removal of the Kingdom from the hands of Rehoboam, a Judahite, to Jeroboam, an Ephraimite. Only if God was to lose the House of Israel would the Kingdom truly be lost-and the birthright with it. But God has promised many times in Scripture that the tribes of Joseph will be found, even as Joseph himself was found alive and well at the head of Egypt.Logabe
 

logabe

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Israel's second time of trouble was primarily a time of separation between Judah and Joseph. At the end of 210 years of separation, the two nations theoretically should have been reunited and the breach repaired. This did not happen, because the people did not repent and because God had yet another, longer time of trouble in mind for them. Nonetheless, in studying the end of that 210-year breach, we find all the prophetic patterns laid down by which God eventually will repair the breach. The events in the life of king Hezekiah give us precise details that are soon to be fulfilled in the world during our own time.The story of Hezekiah is found in 2 Kings 18-20. It begins with the fall of Samaria, when the last remnant of the House of Israel was deported to Assyria. Assyria deported the first few tribes in 745 B.C., but completed the task in 721 B.C. when they captured Samaria, Israel's capital. We pick up the story here, as told in 2 Kings 18:9-10.9 And it came to pass in the fourth year of king Hezekiah, which was the seventh year of Hoshea son of Elah, king of Israel, that Shalmanezer king of Assyria came up against Samaria, and besieged it. 10 And at the end of three years they took it, even in the sixth year of Hezekiah, that is the ninth year of Hoshea king of Israel, Samaria was taken.Shalmanezer, king of Assyria, conquered Samaria in 721 B.C., but he died before he had a chance to try to conquer Jerusalem. He was succeeded by Sennacherib, who returned and tried to conquer Jerusalem eight years later, in 713 B.C. We read of this in 2 Kings 18:13,13 Now in the fourteenth year of king Hezekiah did Sennacherib king of Assyria come up against all the fenced cities of Judah, and took them.Samaria was taken in Hezekiah's sixth year, and the siege of Jerusalem came in Hezekiah's 14th year. Keep in mind that this was also 218 years after the death of Solomon and the breach between Judah and Joseph. The point of our discussion here will be to show that the prophetic pattern for the repair of the breach took place under Hezekiah ten years after the fall of Samaria, or 220 years after the beginning of the breach. That is, after the 210-year cycle of Joseph's separation from his brethren, it took another ten years to repair the breach.This 210-220 years follows the pattern in the life of Jacob himself, who spent 21 years in bondage, and then returned to Bethel, the House of God, at the end of the 22nd year. The only difference is that in Hezekiah's day the pattern was national in scope, and thus the numbers reflect a longer time cycle.When the Assyrian army surrounded Jerusalem, their captain shouted to the men on the walls of the city, trying to persuade them to surrender. In doing so, he blasphemed God by claiming that He was just like all the other weak gods who had not been able to save their worshippers from Assyrian conquest. In 2 Kings 19:1 we read that Hezekiah tore his clothing (the traditional reaction to hearing blasphemy). He then sent for Isaiah, the prophet, who was in the city during this siege. Hezekiah's message to Isaiah is recorded in 2 Kings 19:3,3 And they said unto him, Thus saith Hezekiah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and blasphemy; for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth.One might ask what "children" have to do with the siege of Jerusalem. What did Hezekiah mean by not having the strength to bring forth children? He was referring to a very personal problem which had national implications. Hezekiah had no children at this point in his life. Yet God had promised David, his ancestor, that he would never lack a man to sit upon the throne (Jer. 33:17). What would become of this promise, if the Assyrian army were to take the city of Jerusalem? Certainly, Hezekiah would have been executed and all the royal family with him. The promise to David might fail. The Messiah might never be born. Already, it appeared as though the promises to Joseph had failed, for the Assyrians had deported the birthright tribes far away near the Caspian Sea. Would the promises to Judah fail also?Logabe
 

precepts

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The devil really is a liar, logabe! You know your bible better than. You're trying to weary saints with your foolishness! You full well know the scripture that you're trying to contradict. When in doubt, check the facts! Line upon line, precept upon precept. p.s. Eternity is a long time.