The Abomination of Desolation?

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Dave L

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There was no Tribulation Period In biblical terms at 70 A.D..

There was a Roman invasion of Israel to crush the Jewish state. The zealots were in armed rebellion against Rome and Rome did not tolerate rebellion. Much more than Jerusalem was conquered and desolated. The fighting Was from 66 to 70 A.D.

Just as in the OT God using pagan nations to punish Israel with invasion.

The church did as Christ warning and left. The Pharisaical Jews stayed and either were slaughtered or enslaved and important.

You're trying to turn this into something it is not
Have you ever read Josephus' account of the siege of Jerusalem? The cannibalism inside the city? And crucifixions as far as the eye could see? They ran out of wood to make the crosses. According to Josephus, 1.1 million non-combatants died in Jerusalem, mainly as a result of the violence and famine. Nothing like it before, nothing like it since.
 

Enoch111

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Jesus placed the Abomination of Desolation within the life times of his disciples...
No He did not. That is totally false and more nonsense.

That is because Christ coupled the totally unique and yet to come Great Tribulation with the Abomination of Desolation, which would be followed by the total shaking of the heavens and the earth. None of that has happened as yet. "Desolation" means the desolations which occur during the Great Tribulation.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened... 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Mt 24:21,22,29)

19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days... 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. (Mk 13:19,20,24,25)

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (Lk 21:25,26)

Why do you continue to present false narratives to mislead people? Those who want the truth about the Abomination of Desolation must go to Revelation 13 and see that it is none other than the image of the Beast (the Antichrist). In the Hebrew Bible idols are consistently called *abominations* (detested things) because they stink in the nostrils of God.

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination* that maketh desolate. (Dan 11:31)

*Strong's Concordance (8251)
shiqquts: detested thing
Original Word: שִׁקּוּץ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: shiqquts
Phonetic Spelling: (shik-koots')
Definition: detested thing


REVELATION 13
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
 
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friend of

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According to Josephus, 1.1 million non-combatants died in Jerusalem, mainly as a result of the violence and famine. Nothing like it before, nothing like it since.

What a out the millions of Christian's murdered during the Reformation? Wouldn't that be closer to the GT given that thos evening persecuted were Christians and not Jews?
 
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CoreIssue

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What a out the millions of Christian's murdered during the Reformation? Wouldn't that be closer to the GT given that thos evening persecuted were Christians and not Jews?

The church is gone and not there during the Tribulation Period.

Tribulation Period Saints and Jews will be slaughtered in mass.
 

Bible_Gazer

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Tribulation saints that are washed in the blood of the lamb ?
That can only be done thru faith, faith comes thru preaching
By a minister of Jesus. Now that would be a church setting.
Church people makes a church. So there a church during
The tribulation because church people are there. It happened during that time frame.
 

Enoch111

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Tribulation saints that are washed in the blood of the lamb ? That can only be done thru faith, faith comes thru preaching By a minister of Jesus.
However, you are forgetting TWO extremely significant things about the Tribulation:

1. The two prophets or witnesses of God (whom I believe are Moses and Elijah) will be preaching and performing miracles during the Tribulation Period. See Revelation 11 (and there are no churches mentioned there).

2. An angel will be flying all across the earth proclaiming the everlasting Gospel during the Tribulation. See Revelation 14.

So there goes your theory about a church or churches on earth during that time. Indeed you will not find the word "church" between Revelation 6 and 18 (the period which includes both the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation).
 

CoreIssue

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Tribulation saints that are washed in the blood of the lamb ?
That can only be done thru faith, faith comes thru preaching
By a minister of Jesus. Now that would be a church setting.
Church people makes a church. So there a church during
The tribulation because church people are there. It happened during that time frame.

In the Tribulation Period it's Israel, not church, so like the Old Testament they are not washed in the blood of the lamb on this earth.
 

Bible_Gazer

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So no church to save people at all after Jesus gets the catching away ? Huumm.... don't make sense. I think people will get saved after the catching away during the next 1,000 years.
 

CoreIssue

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So no church to save people at all after Jesus gets the catching away ? Huumm.... don't make sense. I think people will get saved after the catching away during the next 1,000 years.

People will be justified the same way they were under Mosaic law in the Old Testament.
 

quietthinker

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Jesus placed the Abomination of Desolation within the life times of his disciples. Saying "when you see (second person plural) the AOD, leave Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15).

This being the case, how did the AOD happen? I believe it was the continued animal sacrifice by the Jews in the temple "standing in the Holy place" after Jesus put an end to sin with the sacrifice of himself. Later, formally removed by God in the siege of Jerusalem in AD 70.

The continued animal sacrifice was a formal rejection of God by the Jews and his atoning for sins by offering himself on the cross.

[edit] Luke says when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies (Luke 21:20), flee. So this coupled with the AOD would complete the warning.
He spoke to the disciples but also to us. The time line spoken of does not limit his words to the lifetime of the Disciples. That should be clear by its context.
 
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Enoch111

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So no church to save people at all after Jesus gets the catching away ? Huumm.... don't make sense. I think people will get saved after the catching away during the next 1,000 years.
Of course they will get saved. But they will not be within the Church, the Body, Bride, and Building of Christ. There will be saved nations on earth during and after the Millennium.
 

Bible_Gazer

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Of course they will get saved. But they will not be within the Church, the Body, Bride, and Building of Christ. There will be saved nations on earth during and after the Millennium.
The church will have a different calling then . Its getting more people saved for the new the world to come. God wants more children.
 

CoreIssue

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But the everlasting gospel does not fade away. It still take Jesus and the same plan of salvation, washed in the blood of lamb.

The gospel was also the gospel in the Old Testament as a promise that would be received on the resurrection.

Israel was a covenant nation then and will be again just as a promise will be a promise again, not a instance accomplishment as in the church age.

What changes is the administration, not the reality.
 

Bible_Gazer

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The gospel was also the gospel in the Old Testament as a promise that would be received on the resurrection.

Israel was a covenant nation then and will be again just as a promise will be a promise again, not a instance accomplishment as in the church age.

What changes is the administration, not the reality.
OT main promise was Jesus coming to deliver them from sin as well a blessed nation . A promise of change
 
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CoreIssue

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OT main promise was Jesus coming to deliver them from sin as well a blessed nation . A promise of change

He is King, high priest and sacrificial lamb in the OT, church age and in Revelation and the MK.

Salvation is still there, so nothing is changed or will change except how he executes those roles and promises.

The Holy Spirit will be removed from the earth so that the AC can be revealed and active. In that removal the church has to go.

And just like when Christ said he had to leave for the Holy Spirit to come as the new comforter, so will the Holy Spirit have to leave for Christ to come in that role.

The church will be removed to protect it Tribulation Period. So the tribulations Saints cannot be church.
 
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brakelite

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As usual, dispensationalists will never understand as Daniel said we could, and Jesus said we must. Looking for a literal abomination in literal future Israel in a literal temple is make believe, again created by Jesuit Ribera. Conversely, if we look upon the abomination of desolation as a spiritual abomination being placed inside the true NT temple, the church, then we may begin to discover some answers, as this small article reveals...
The Abomination of Desolation | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts
 
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Dave L

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He spoke to the disciples but also to us. The time line spoken of does not limit his words to the lifetime of the Disciples. That should be clear by its context.
He spoke to the disciples in second person plural. If he had spoken to us, it would have been third person plural.
 
D

Dave L

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What a out the millions of Christian's murdered during the Reformation? Wouldn't that be closer to the GT given that thos evening persecuted were Christians and not Jews?
Not according to Jesus. Christians experience tribulation throughout church history but not in judgement. Martyrdom = blessing.
 
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D

Dave L

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No He did not. That is totally false and more nonsense.

That is because Christ coupled the totally unique and yet to come Great Tribulation with the Abomination of Desolation, which would be followed by the total shaking of the heavens and the earth. None of that has happened as yet. "Desolation" means the desolations which occur during the Great Tribulation.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened... 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Mt 24:21,22,29)

19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days... 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. (Mk 13:19,20,24,25)

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (Lk 21:25,26)

Why do you continue to present false narratives to mislead people? Those who want the truth about the Abomination of Desolation must go to Revelation 13 and see that it is none other than the image of the Beast (the Antichrist). In the Hebrew Bible idols are consistently called *abominations* (detested things) because they stink in the nostrils of God.

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination* that maketh desolate. (Dan 11:31)

*Strong's Concordance (8251)
shiqquts: detested thing
Original Word: שִׁקּוּץ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: shiqquts
Phonetic Spelling: (shik-koots')
Definition: detested thing


REVELATION 13
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Jesus spoke to the disciple in the second person plural. Had it been for anyone else, he would have used third person plural.