sacraments

(Gareth;50971)
It doesn't. How does it go against Christ at all? In this case sacraments are clearly in the Bible.I don't know what is so difficult to understand by what Jesus said Himself about "water and the Spirit" in John 3. That fits perfectly into what a sacrament is. "An outward physical sign of an inward spiritual motion".Outward sign = WaterInward sign = The Spirit
Read John 3:6 = the answer.

That isn't the answer it's part of the quote.(John 3:5-7 (New Revised Standard Version))
Jesus answered, ‘Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be astonished that I said to you, “You must be born from above.” The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.’
It's part of the same quotation marks. It's no different. Being baptised is what is being spoken of. That isn't an answer and it doesn't remove the role of baptism.

Are you not born physically at all?

(thesuperjag;50978)
Are you not born physically at all?
What's your point - if you have one?

(winsome;50979)
(thesuperjag;50978)
Are you not born physically at all?
What's your point - if you have one?The point Christ was speaking is, you can't be born again without being born in your mother's womb.

(thesuperjag;50980)
The point Christ was speaking is, you can't be born again without being born in your mother's womb.
It was Nicodemus who thought you had to enter the womb a second time.

(thesuperjag;50980)
The point Christ was speaking is, you can't be born again without being born in your mother's womb.
Well, considering His own baptism, and considering it's role in the Christian message I would doubt that.Baptism is also highly likely the reference as it is linked to the Jewish practise of mikveh.

(Gareth;50983)
(thesuperjag;50980)
The point Christ was speaking is, you can't be born again without being born in your mother's womb.
Well, considering His own baptism, and considering it's role in the Christian message I would doubt that.Baptism is also highly likely the reference as it is linked to the Jewish practise of mikveh.Christ's baptism is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost / Spirit. Don't mix John's baptism with Christ's...

(thesuperjag;50985)
Christ's baptism is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost / Spirit. Don't mix John's baptism with Christ's...
Jesus was baptised in water and received the Holy Spirit.We are baptised in water and receive the Holy Spirit, hence being born of water and SpiritWe are born into a new life in Christ.

(thesuperjag;50985)
Christ's baptism is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost / Spirit. Don't mix John's baptism with Christ's...
Didn't the Spirit of God descend like a dove? (Matthew 3:16 (NRSV))
And when Jesus had been baptized, just as He came up from the water, suddenly the heavens were opened to Him and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove
Also why did Paul baptise people with water if it were not necessary to be born again of water and the Spirit?(Acts 16:33 (NRSV))
At the same hour of night he took them and washed their wounds; then he and his entire family were baptised without delay
Also I'm curious to what baptism is if it doesn't involve water.It would seem to be a lot more reliable to accept the Apostolic tradition that was passed down from Jesus to the Apostles to us today than outright reject it.

Ok, what happened to the theif at the cross then? What did Yahshua say to him?

Jesus said He would see Him in Paradise. However that was the decision of Christ in that particular instance, who says that we have the authority to decide for ourselves? I'd like to know why you think baptism with water ever took place. It seems to me that from what you say it shouldn't be practised.

(Gareth;50965)
Richard this perplexes me then, why when Jesus speaks to Nicodemus in John 3 why does he say one must be born again of the water and the Spirit?
To assume that the word water is talking about water baptism is wrong. The word baptism is not in the context. What is in the context is the idea of going back into a mother's womb. What Jesus is saying is that being born of the flesh is not enough. A person has to be born of God (the Holy Spirit).Richard

(Gareth;50973)
That isn't the answer it's part of the quote.It's part of the same quotation marks. It's no different. Being baptised is what is being spoken of. That isn't an answer and it doesn't remove the role of baptism.
Don't bet on it. Nowhere in the context of this conversation is the word baptism mentioned.Richard

I just hope and pray that baptism still be encouraged in the Christian community in the future.

(Gareth;51000)
I just hope and pray that baptism still be encouraged in the Christian community in the future.
Water baptism is an outward symbol of an inward decision to place a person's faith in the work of God (Jesus) on the cross. But it does not save anyone. If it could then all a person has to do is be water baptized. This is the tragic result of saying water baptism saves.Richard

Plain and simple- sacraments are a result of one who wants to make a religion out of Christianity. Btw, you show how many sacraments are biblically supported...True some are. THEN why do you feel men need to go further with them (than the bible), setting rules and importance higher than what was ever written? Sacraments are just another way of showing the world how boastful men can make a religion out of Christ.

(thesuperjag;50989)
Ok, what happened to the theif at the cross then? What did Yahshua say to him?
Sssshhhhhh quiet! They dont like that one

(RichardBurger;50998)
To assume that the word water is talking about water baptism is wrong. The word baptism is not in the context. What is in the context is the idea of going back into a mother's womb. What Jesus is saying is that being born of the flesh is not enough. A person has to be born of God (the Holy Spirit).Richard
What is being talked about is being "born again" or "born from above" by water and Spirit. It is by baptism that we are "born again", made new.In the water-and-Spirit rebirth that takes place at baptism, the repentant sinner is transformed from a state of sin to the state of grace. Peter mentioned this transformation from sin to grace when he exhorted people to "be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38). Paul reminds us in Titus 3:5 that God "he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, through the water of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit." Paul also said, "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death? Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life." (Rom. 6:3–4). It is this rebirth by baptism as children of God that John is talking about. The whole context is baptism with water. It takes place after Jesus’ baptism in the Jordan and just before Jesus and his disciples baptise with water in the Jordan themselves.