Why isn't the shroud of turin in the bible

Waiting on him · Jan 31, 2019

farouk said:
John 3 speaks of the Spirit of God as a wind, moving invisibly...

Where it chooses

farouk · Jan 31, 2019

Waiting on him said:
Where it chooses

God is sovereign, yes.

Marymog · Jan 31, 2019

amadeus said:
I just reread this and wanted to clarify that my parents did not raise to believe in God by teaching or by example. My step-father, a Portugee, had always been a Catholic nominally but I cannot remember him ever attending church or a mass. My mother became Catholic when she married him before I was old enough to remember, but she only went to midnight mass a few times over the years while I lived in her home. Neither one of them did anything at home to remind us of God and Jesus unless it was during the periodic fights they had in which the words, God and Jesus, were frequently spoken in their railing against each other.

Thank you for that clarification. That's tough on a kid. Makes me more thankful for my childhood and parents.

It sounds like, from your previous testimony, that your parent(s) sent you to (paid for) a Catholic school and you attended a Catholic Church. Was that your choice or theirs? Would you have rather gone to a public school?

Mary

Marymog · Jan 31, 2019

Waiting on him said:
when I came under the conviction of the Spirit of God there was no one around. There was no one proclaiming Jesus. I was on a roof top working with my father(who totally rejects God) and my great aunt who was a devout Christian was in the house beneath us. I never asked but I firmly believe, I know she was asking him for me, because something within me spoke. And I don’t mean audibly. I don’t believe I even spoke a word the rest of the day. That to me is a miracle (supernatural)I guess blessed are those who haven’t seen yet believe. Sorry I can’t give the glory to a man.

You had never read the bible before that miracle on the roof?

Curious Mary

Marymog · Jan 31, 2019

amadeus said:
What can I do? I am what I am which is certainly less than God is able to make if I allow it. You want a black and white answer to your questions, and I simply won't do that, not because I have no answer, but because I have learned to strive not to generalize. I know I have mentioned this before although perhaps not to you. When I have given such answers to people in the past, I have more than once come to regret it because the answer did not always fit every real situation that would come along.

Jesus did not answer every question because He was always in the Father's will. Did He have an answer when He did not answer? Did He even answer a question with something people could not understand or would not accept?

How much like Jesus am I? Since I fall short in so many areas so often how could I honestly answer that question? Don't you believe it is a good idea sometimes to simple remain quiet? How is it we know when to remain quiet and when to speak? Is there a person of flesh and blood who will always be there to correctly advise us each time the question arises or should arise in me or in you?

God's peace to you!

No big deal Amadeus. I have moved on.

You can't explain why you believe what you believe. You just believe it. Nothing wrong with that.

Previously you have explained to me that thru reading scripture you believe "eating his body" actually means reading the bible. However, by reading the same scripture, you can't tell me what lead you to believe Jesus is the Son of God. Multiple times on this website you have told people what you believe on specific issues and backed up your beliefs using scripture. Now, using Scripture, you can't tell me "Why you believe Jesus is the Son of God". I don't understand it and probably never will.

I am going to take @ByGrace words of wisdom: I wish I didn't need to understand with my mind so much.

Mary

Nancy · Jan 31, 2019

Marymog said:
This has nothing to do with "encounters with God".

The question is: Why do you believe Jesus is the Son of God?

@Willie T has given an what he believes is the answer from Amadeus.

@Nancy couldn't give an answer. She chose to go on the attack and accuse me of being divisive.

What is it that you understand? Please extrapolate for me from Amadeus's answers to me WHY he believes Jesus is the Son of God.

I already know he said it is written in his heart but he can't even explain to me how it is written in his heart sooo there is not way you can explain it to me. What is your interpretation of his post's???

Mary

Um, post #92 is not a good enough answer for you?! So, you just lie and say I "couldn't give an answer" Sooooooooooooooo, if the answer does not line up with YOUR answer in every way then it becomes a, non-answer? I take it you are not a proponent of the personal aspect of a relationship with our Creator? We witness through many ways, our lives and behavior are a huge witness for Christ. The resurrection and the historical/or apologetics aspect is an awesome way to cement our beliefs...He does not ask for blind faith, just His creations around us should be MORE than enough. We Christians are NOT cookie cutter clones, we are individual people who love the Lord as best we know how. And, we will always have differing reasons why we believe. If my answers (which I had already given you in post #92) is not good enough for you then so be it, not my problem.

Marymog · Jan 31, 2019

Nancy said:
Um, post #92 is not a good enough answer for you?! So, you just lie and say I "couldn't give an answer" Sooooooooooooooo, if the answer does not line up with YOUR answer in every way then it becomes a, non-answer? I take it you are not a proponent of the personal aspect of a relationship with our Creator? We witness through many ways, our lives and behavior are a huge witness for Christ. The resurrection and the historical/or apologetics aspect is an awesome way to cement our beliefs...He does not ask for blind faith, just His creations around us should be MORE than enough. We Christians are NOT cookie cutter clones, we are individual people who love the Lord as best we know how. And, we will always have differing reasons why we believe. If my answers (which I had already given you in post #92) is not good enough for you then so be it, not my problem.

Post #92 is YOUR response to my question. You, in that post, are able to articulate WHY you believe Jesus is who he said he is. You said he had you at the resurrection!! Amadeus can’t say WHY, only that he believes because it is in his heart.

In post #191 I was referring to you not being able to make clear to me what Amadeus’s answer is. He said it is written into his heart. That was not a clear answer to me soooooo I then asked him what was written in his heart. He could not tell me. You made it sound like you understood him and you thought his answer was clear HOWEVER you could not tell me what that answer meant either; instead, in that post, you accused me of badgering him and being divisive.....So relax, wind down, take a deep breath and PLEASE get the conversation in the correct sequence before you go on the warpath again.

I don’t expect an apology but I hope we are now both on the same page.

Mary

Waiting on him · Jan 31, 2019

Marymog said:
You had never read the bible before that miracle on the roof?

Curious Mary

No. It’s my understanding that Abraham hadn’t either

Waiting on him · Jan 31, 2019

Waiting on him said:
No. It’s my understanding that Abraham hadn’t either

TheOnly reason I believe is because he enabled me to.

farouk · Jan 31, 2019

Waiting on him said:
TheOnly reason I believe is because he enabled me to.

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." (John 6.37)

farouk · Jan 31, 2019

Waiting on him said:
Where it chooses

"But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." (1 Corinthians 12.11)

Nancy · Jan 31, 2019

Marymog said:
Post #92 is YOUR response to my question. You, in that post, are able to articulate WHY you believe Jesus is who he said he is. You said he had you at the resurrection!! Amadeus can’t say WHY, only that he believes because it is in his heart.

In post #191 I was referring to you not being able to make clear to me what Amadeus’s answer is. He said it is written into his heart. That was not a clear answer to me soooooo I then asked him what was written in his heart. He could not tell me. You made it sound like you understood him and you thought his answer was clear HOWEVER you could not tell me what that answer meant either; instead, in that post, you accused me of badgering him and being divisive.....So relax, wind down, take a deep breath and PLEASE get the conversation in the correct sequence before you go on the warpath again.

I don’t expect an apology but I hope we are now both on the same page.

Mary

@amadeus was clear to me when he spoke of "written in his heart"-I believe he meant that ALL of God's laws are written on the lining of our hearts, and he totally relies on the Spirit of God to guide and lead him and give him the words, or no words! Every situation is different Mary. And IMO, we are all dealt with and appealed to by God through a Spirit filled Christian.
I hope this clarifies what I believe Amadeus meant.
I apologize for my tone.
nancy

GodsGrace · Jan 31, 2019

Waiting on him said:
TheOnly reason I believe is because he enabled me to.

Doesn't God enable everyone to?
Did He pick you out among the many?

Waiting on him · Jan 31, 2019

GodsGrace said:
Doesn't God enable everyone to?
Did He pick you out among the many?

It’s amazing throughout scripture to see Gods will working all things. If he hadn’t have hardened Pharos heart what then?look at the walk of Jesus he made the crusifiction happen exactly how he wanted it and when.yes, I believe he chose me.yes I believe he chooses everyone

GodsGrace · Jan 31, 2019

Waiting on him said:
It’s amazing throughout scripture to see Gods will working all things. If he hadn’t have hardened Pharos heart what then?look at the walk of Jesus he made the crusifiction happen exactly how he wanted it and when.yes, I believe he chose me.yes I believe he chooses everyone

So you believe God reveals Himself to everyone and then we each decide for ourselves whether or not we wish to serve God?

God is sovereign and in the end HIS Will will prevail...
Within that Will of HIS, WE do have the free will to choose Him and to choose our moral behavior.

As to Pharaoh, there are two possible explanations for this and if anyone thinks they know exactly the right answer, I fear they think they have God's mind.

Verse 4:21 says that God will harden his heart.
Verse 7:3 ditto

Then we read, instead, in verse 8:32 that pharaoh hardened his own heart.
This would be similar to Romans 1:24 when God gave some over to their heart's impurity. IOW, it's like God giving in to what the person wants for himself.
How can we really know what came first? Pharaoh's hardening his own heart against the Israelites...

OR

Perhaps God DID harden his heart in order for the miracles to be seen to prepare the Israelites for their long trip and their encounter with God. Maybe also to show Moses how much power he had by the grace of God.

However, I do believe that these instances, even if God DID harden pharaoh's heart, are very rare and are not the usual way God operates.

Waiting on him · Jan 31, 2019

GodsGrace said:
So you believe God reveals Himself to everyone and then we each decide for ourselves whether or not we wish to serve God?

God is sovereign and in the end HIS Will will prevail...
Within that Will of HIS, WE do have the free will to choose Him and to choose our moral behavior.

As to Pharaoh, there are two possible explanations for this and if anyone thinks they know exactly the right answer, I fear they think they have God's mind.

Verse 4:21 says that God will harden his heart.
Verse 7:3 ditto

Then we read, instead, in verse 8:32 that pharaoh hardened his own heart.
This would be similar to Romans 1:24 when God gave some over to their heart's impurity. IOW, it's like God giving in to what the person wants for himself.
How can we really know what came first? Pharaoh's hardening his own heart against the Israelites...

OR

Perhaps God DID harden his heart in order for the miracles to be seen to prepare the Israelites for their long trip and their encounter with God. Maybe also to show Moses how much power he had by the grace of God.

However, I do believe that these instances, even if God DID harden pharaoh's heart, are very rare and are not the usual way God operates.

I do see some in my life that it seems as if he has hardened their heart, maybe too encourage me to bare his image, although not implying I typically do a very good job.

Marymog · Jan 31, 2019

Waiting on him said:
No. It’s my understanding that Abraham hadn’t either

No one had ever told you about Jesus or God before the miracle on the roof?

Abraham had oral tradition. Did he not?

Mary

GodsGrace · Jan 31, 2019

Waiting on him said:
I do see some in my life that it seems as if he has hardened their heart, maybe too encourage me to bare his image, although not implying I typically do a very good job.

No one does a very good job.
But we could do our best....

I don't believe God hardens anyone's heart.
The N.T. says God wishes everyone could be saved...
but He has conditions and many refuse to meet them.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Waiting on him · Jan 31, 2019

Marymog said:
No one had ever told you about Jesus or God before the miracle on the roof?

Abraham had oral tradition. Did he not?

Mary

I believe he was a pagan like I was.

Waiting on him · Jan 31, 2019

GodsGrace said:
No one does a very good job.
But we could do our best....

I don't believe God hardens anyone's heart.
The N.T. says God wishes everyone could be saved...
but He has conditions and many refuse to meet them.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

What are the conditions?

Why isn't the shroud of turin in the bible

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