Man has a part in his salvation=things to do, believe and say.

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LC627

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Man is evil and naturally does not seek God.
 

GISMYS_7

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Yes!!! God is outside time!!! Psalms 139:16
. "You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your books
. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed."
God's elect"?? ==== God's elect are those God knows will choose to believe and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior!!
 

LC627

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Because that person choose the listen to God the Holy Spirit testifying to them.
They weren't forced.

No one is forced. God is the One Who must open up our hearts and freely repent. Look at Lydia in Acts16:14
 

LC627

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Because that person choose the listen to God the Holy Spirit testifying to them.
They weren't forced.

Did Saul (Paul) choose to listen or was it because God ordained him from birth to be an Apostle?
 

Jane_Doe22

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No one is forced. God is the One Who must open up our hearts and freely repent. Look at Lydia in Acts16:14
I agree with what you say here.
However, with all due respect, I do not find what yo say here to line up with Calvin's teachings (which I find to be intrinsically are completely about force and hatred).
 
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Jane_Doe22

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Did Saul (Paul) choose to listen or was it because God ordained him from birth to be an Apostle?
Saul/Paul had a choice. God testified to him, but never forced him to do anything. Saul/Paul always had the choice to continue going about killing Christians all his life. Obviously he choose to accept God's testimony and God knew he would. But he always had that choice.
 

LC627

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I agree with what you say here.
However, with all due respect, I do not find what yo say here to line up with Calvin's teachings (which I find to be intrinsically are completely about force and hatred).

The Bible says it and teaches it. Calvin was just a teacher (that I don't always agree with). Arminian's have teachers that write on Scripture but yet no one accuse them of following a teacher. Election / Predestination is hated because people love self will and pride and want to feel in control and it goes against all that. I understand it's hard, I do. wasn't easy for me at first but now I see it I can't deny it. Man is 100% evil and does not desire God in the slightest form.
 

LC627

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Saul/Paul had a choice. God testified to him, but never forced him to do anything. Saul/Paul always had the choice to continue going about killing Christians all his life. Obviously he choose to accept God's testimony and God knew he would. But he always had that choice.

Paul says himself that God ordained him from birth.

Did John the Baptist choose to be a prophet? Did he choose to be filled with the Holy Spirit before birth?
 

LC627

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It always comes back to, "it has to mans choice, it has to be his doing" but do you ever congratulate yourself on this good choice you made? No, no believer does that. You should if it was by your own doing.

Yet when you pray for God to save a person you don't say, "now don't mess with them God, it has to be their own choice" Not once do you think you're violating their will when you pray to God to open their eyes and save them.

Deep down we all know God must convict and man can't bring about that conviction on his own.
 

LC627

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Before coming to Christ we were slaves to sin. Sin was our master and we were in spiritual bondage. No child of the devil naturally on their own will submit to Jesus. God is the One Who opens our heart.
 
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GISMYS_7

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The Holy Spirit call to ALL but all do not answer many choose to reject God's love and the gift of forgiveness and salvation! Their choice!
 

LC627

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The Holy Spirit call to ALL but all do not answer many choose to reject God's love and the gift of forgiveness and salvation! Their choice!

Ask a random person on the street that last time they felt the Holy Spirit convict them of their sin.

Put a Bible on the table of where a group of people are sitting and watch them mock and get angry at its presence.
 

GISMYS_7

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last time they felt the Holy Spirit convict them of their sin WAS THE LAST TIME THEY SINNED! Who does not know right from wrong??
 

Waiting on him

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ROFL!!! There is no need for Paul to tell those that are already saved what to do to be saved!!!THINK!!!

Why not choose to believe God's word and forget the word of a long dead little 14th century man???

Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13

God says==That """if""" thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,

and ""shalt believe"" in your heart that God hath raised him

from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man

believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth ""confession

is made unto Salvation"". For whosoever shall ""call ""upon the

name of the Lord "shall" be Saved..
When you did this what was you confession?
 

Jane_Doe22

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The Bible says it and teaches it. Calvin was just a teacher (that I don't always agree with). Arminian's have teachers that write on Scripture but yet no one accuse them of following a teacher. Election / Predestination is hated because people love self will and pride and want to feel in control and it goes against all that. I understand it's hard, I do. wasn't easy for me at first but now I see it I can't deny it. Man is 100% evil and does not desire God in the slightest form.
First things first, I would like to acknowledge your right to believe what you believe. I respect you and your beliefs, even though I do not agree with them.

On to second things: I do passionately disagree with you here. I don't find Calvin's views/teachings to be Biblical. I see him proclaiming a narcissist god of hate and force. And that does deeply bother me, and I do passionately disagree with it.
 

GISMYS_7

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Lord, I confess that I am a sinner have mercy on me a sinner I accept your gift of forgiveness and salvation that Jesus bought for me on that Roman cross!! Thank you!!
 
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Waiting on him

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God *offers* His gift of salvation to every individual. Each individual has the choice whether or not to accept it. It's their choice. God never forces anything. Those that accept and believe shall be saved. Those that reject shall not be.

Now, God does know everything in advance-- He know's what choice each person will make, He knows how this goes down. But He still lets each person have their choice, and we each must make it.


With all due respect, I find this verse to have a very different meaning.
Is there something special inside of those who make the choice to follow Christ.