Is the Great Commission for today

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RichardBurger

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Is the Great Commission for today??The Great Commission is not what Paul preached. The Great Commission was given to the Jewish Apostles for the church of the kingdom. Paul was sent with the gospel message of God's grace. Under the gospel of God's grace a person does not have to work (do anything) for salvation. God has done everything that is necessary for their salvation.It should also be noted that in the Great Commission, not one word is mentioned about the cross. But the cross is the foundation of the Grace Commission. QUESTION: Where, in the scriptures, do we find the "GREAT COMMISSION" that was given to the TWELVE "BEING SUSPENDED?" This is a good question. Most churches today operate under the Great Commission. They believe there has been no interruption of the Great Commission from the time it was given until this day. But in fact, its suspension was recognized at the Jerusalem Council. In Galatians 2, Paul explains why he had a meeting with the remainder of the Twelve Apostles. In Galatians 2:7-9 we read, “But contrariwise, when they [Apostles] saw that the gospel of the un-circumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter.” Think about it, if there was no difference in these gospels then why indicate that there is? Why was this statement worded this way?Un-circumcision means those who were not a part of the Jewish program. Circumcision was a Jewish ritual. He is talking about a message that does not include rituals, does not include the law, the keeping of the law, and all of the other ordinances that went along with it along with the ritual of water cleansing (baptism). “When they saw that the gospel of the un-circumcision (Gentiles) was committed unto me [Paul says], as the gospel of the circumcision (the Jews) was committed unto Peter: (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.” BUT HOW CAN THEY DO THAT? At least two of these men were right there when the Lord told them to go into all the world beginning in Jerusalem, and Judea, and Samara, and then unto the uttermost part of the earth. How could Peter and John who were standing with the Lord when He said they were to go into all the world, now suddenly say, “We won’t go to the Gentile nations anymore. Paul, you do that. We will go to the circumcision.” How can they do that? They can do it because God revealed something new to them. He revealed that God has begun a new program in order to bring salvation to the Gentile nations. It was NOT going to be according to the Great Commission Jesus had given them. It included a different message. Not only was the responsibility being transferred to a new apostle, (the Apostle Paul), but a new message was being committed to him as well. So the answer to the question, “Where is the Great Commission suspended?” is right here in Galatians 2:9 - where the remainder of the Twelve Apostles recognize that God has given a new ministry, and a new message to Paul. It was no longer their task to go to the Gentile nations anymore and they stopped at that point. Paul and the new program took over with the Gospel of the Grace of God. With that background we will now go back and look at the various accounts of the Great Commission and see that it cannot be carried out today, at least not the way the Lord told them to do it. Matthew 28:18 says, “And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Many people try to carry out these instructions; yet they cannot and still be scriptural in this dispensation of Grace. Why is this? Because for one thing - to carry out the Great Commission, as recorded here, means you must bind your followers to the Law of Moses. Some will ask, “where does it say that?” Notice the first part of verse 20, “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” Did the Lord Jesus Christ ever command his disciples to be subject to the Law of Moses? YES HE DID In Matthew 23:1-3 we read, “Then spoke Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.” This is the seat of the Law, the authority of the Law. “All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.” Our Lord commanded His disciples to be subject to the Law of Moses. Now as He commissions them to take the kingdom gospel to the world, He says to teach them to observe all things He commanded them. What a contrast to Paul’s later teaching that we are “not under the law, but under grace” (Romans 6:14b). Another area in which some try to do, but it does not work very well, is the Lord’s teaching to sell everything they had and to give it to the poor. He taught that on more than one occasion (See Matthew 19:21 & Luke 12:33). Did they teach those that they reached to do the same thing? They certainly did! Read Acts 2 and 4 where the early disciples of the twelve sold everything they had and they laid the money at the apostles' feet. The Apostle Paul never tells us to do that. He tells us to be careful not to trust in riches, but he never tells us that we are to sell everything we have and bring it to the apostles' feet. Which apostles would we take it to anyway? Keeping the Commission of Matthew 28 would require keeping the Law, selling everything you have and laying it at the apostles’ feet. Obviously, these are things we cannot do if we are going to try to keep that Kingdom Commission. A more controversial passage, and one that is quoted most often, is Mark, 16:15, “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” Usually this is all you ever hear quoted of the Great Commission. This part sounds wonderful. Of course, we should do that. But the details that the Lord tells them are simply not compatible with the Dispensation of Grace. This is a Kingdom commission. Verse 16 says, “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be damned.” Where do people get the idea that water baptism will save them? Right here in this verse. According to this commission, water baptism was required along with their faith. Does this mean that the water saved them? No. But it was an act of obedience which demonstrated their faith and if they did not do it, it only showed they did not have faith. Some people will tell you this is true today. But the Apostle Paul is clear: Ephesians 2:8, 9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Titus 3:5 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration.” There was a time when water baptism was a requirement in God’s program. This is not the case today. Mark 16:17, “And these signs shall follow them that believe; in my name shall they cast out devils...” This is a kingdom sign. What will happen to the devil in the kingdom? He will be cast out for 1,000 years. “They shall speak with new tongues...” What language will people speak in the kingdom? The Bible says God will give them a pure language (Zephaniah 3:9). Everyone will be able to speak the same language once again someday. God gave a gift to these people to illustrate the kingdom. That is not the case today. “They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them.” People today try this and many times end up six feet under. This is not a commission for today. “They shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.” We will discuss the question of healing later, but for now let us affirm that God can heal, but He is not obligated to do so. Luke 24:47, “Beginning in Jerusalem...” and Acts 1:8, “...in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” Many people will spiritualize this passage and say this means to start in your own hometown. For us, they say, the Great Commission is to start in your hometown, then your county, and then your state, and then the United States, and so forth. Is this what the Lord was saying? Of course not! First of all, Jerusalem was not the hometown of many of these disciples. He was telling them to start in Jerusalem because Jerusalem was to be the capital city of the earth, of the Kingdom program. But the Jews rejected the Kingdom program. If the capital city does not believe, what good is it going on from there? Are we to begin in Jerusalem today? II Corinthians 5 says we are ambassadors for Christ. We are already in a foreign land. We are already missionaries right where we are. We may go wherever the Lord opens a door, but it does not have to begin in Jerusalem. The fourth and one of the most neglected references of the Great Commission is John 20. In this account, we find that Christ entrusts the forgiveness of sins to human mediators. John 20:19-23 says, “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whosoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosoever sins ye retain, they are retained.” Again, we remind you, in this dispensation, forgiveness is not committed to men. There is one mediator between God and men, the Apostle Paul says, the man Christ Jesus (I Timothy 2:5). But at that time, under the Kingdom commission, God committed the authority to forgive sins to the disciples. Does this mean they had the power in and of themselves? Of course not! But they did have the authority. This is something we do not have today. God has not entrusted this to men today. But it was a part of the Great Commission. The Great Commission was Jewish, it was a Kingdom Commission, but it is not our commission today. Upon hearing this, many will ask, “Does this mean you do not believe in missions? Does this mean you do not believe in getting the gospel out?” Of course not! We do believe in a commission, but not the one given to the Twelve. That one has been suspended. God has given us another commission and it is tragically the most neglected commission in all the Scriptures. We have a two-fold commission. Paul says in I Timothy 2:4 that God “will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” Those are the two things that God wants to accomplish in this Dispensation of the Grace of God. He wants all men to be saved and He wants everyone to come to the knowledge of the truth. What does this entail? In II Corinthians 5:18, 19 we find the ministry of reconciliation. Verse 18 “And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.” What’s that? Verse 19 “To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” The message of reconciliation is simply that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. When Christ came to this earth, died for our sins, was buried and rose again, He paid the entire price of our sin. In so doing, He reconciled the world. That does not mean that the whole world is saved. It simply means that the world is savable. This is the Divine part. Now our part is to preach the word of reconciliation, which says, now you must be reconciled to God. God reconciled the world. That is something we could not do. We could not pay for our own sins. We could not take care of our own sin problem. Now He says to be reconciled to God. How do we do that? By believing in what God has done for us through Christ. The ministry of reconciliation is the first part of our commission. The second part is in Ephesians 3:9. Once a person is saved, then, God wants him/her to understand the fellowship of the mystery. In verse 9, Paul says, “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery.” Literally, in the Greek (Majority Text), it is “dispensation of the mystery”, “...which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.” What is the fellowship or the dispensation of the mystery? It involves the fact that God revealed a new message through the Apostle Paul that had not been revealed to the prophets and had not been told to the Twelve. It was first committed to Paul. And God wants everyone to know about it. This is part of our job. We are asked why we make such an emphasis of the mystery, of the Grace message committed to the Apostle Paul? It is because it is our job. God has told us to do it. If we are not doing it, we are disobedient children. Many today have been laboring under the commission given to the Twelve. We might commend them for doing something, yet they have been unfaithful servants if they are not doing what God has told us to do in this Dispensation of Grace. I pray that you will not be an unfaithful servant, but that you will carry out God’s commission to us.I think this was written by “BigD” a previous poster on C.A.R.M. and is submitted for study.Richard
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tim_from_pa

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I read this entire post with interest, and if I may summarize what the thought is that Jews were promised a land, a King and Kingdom by whom the Gentile world would be blessed and saved. Therefore, the gospel to them is pointing out the reasons to them all the OT laws and practices so-to-speak. The Jews would be expected to practice the gospel in the framework of the law. The Gentiles on the other hand have the gospel of grace apart from the law to show that they are going to be the recipients of salvation that the Jew is supposed to bring to the world thru Messiah. I think I have that right?Let me say this. This thought actually fits very well with "lost tribes of Israel" teaching. You see, there are not one people of God, but actually two: the house of Judah (the Jews) and the (lost) house of Israel. All through the OT Judah sounds like they adhere to the Law. Israel "found grace in the wilderness" and indeed when losing their identity and becoming Gentiles with the rest of the world in their scattered state had the calling to bring grace to the rest of the world while fulfilling the Abrahamic covenant of becoming many (mighty) nations.Judah is under Law.Israel is under grace.Judah is married (never divorced)Israel was divorced, and recovenanted with her new husband when the old one (Christ) diedJudah is known to the nations (as God's People)Israel is known (as "not my people") and became as Gentiles.Judah would be without might due to their disobedience and without a homeland of their own (until the time of the end and even then, Jerusalem is a headache for all involved)Israel would become many nations possessing the gates of their enemies.So in a nutshell, as you differentiate the gospel to the circumcision vs. uncircumcision, I likewise distinguish between God's two nations of peoples. This is how contradictory sounding prophecies can be fulfilled.So I am suggesting, no, actually stating that the gospel of grace to the Gentiles that you are mentioning in the post actually went to Israel, and Judah, the tribe of the Kings and law-keeping people, are the head to demonstrate the principles of the Kingdom.
 

RichardBurger

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I read this entire post with interest, and if I may summarize what the thought is that Jews were promised a land, a King and Kingdom by whom the Gentile world would be blessed and saved. Therefore, the gospel to them is pointing out the reasons to them all the OT laws and practices so-to-speak. The Jews would be expected to practice the gospel in the framework of the law. The Gentiles on the other hand have the gospel of grace apart from the law to show that they are going to be the recipients of salvation that the Jew is supposed to bring to the world thru Messiah. I think I have that right?Let me say this. This thought actually fits very well with "lost tribes of Israel" teaching. You see, there are not one people of God, but actually two: the house of Judah (the Jews) and the (lost) house of Israel. All through the OT Judah sounds like they adhere to the Law. Israel "found grace in the wilderness" and indeed when losing their identity and becoming Gentiles with the rest of the world in their scattered state had the calling to bring grace to the rest of the world while fulfilling the Abrahamic covenant of becoming many (mighty) nations.Judah is under Law.Israel is under grace.Judah is married (never divorced)Israel was divorced, and recovenanted with her new husband when the old one (Christ) diedJudah is known to the nations (as God's People)Israel is known (as "not my people") and became as Gentiles.Judah would be without might due to their disobedience and without a homeland of their own (until the time of the end and even then, Jerusalem is a headache for all involved)Israel would become many nations possessing the gates of their enemies.So in a nutshell, as you differentiate the gospel to the circumcision vs. uncircumcision, I likewise distinguish between God's two nations of peoples. This is how contradictory sounding prophecies can be fulfilled.So I am suggesting, no, actually stating that the gospel of grace to the Gentiles that you are mentioning in the post actually went to Israel, and Judah, the tribe of the Kings and law-keeping people, are the head to demonstrate the principles of the Kingdom.
Sorry but that is your idea, not mine, and I don't believe it to be true.Richard
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SealedEternal

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This is the verse that is usually referred to as the "great commission":Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing (immersing) them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."Certainly we today should still be immersing all of the nations in the name of the Father and the Son and the Spirit of God, and teaching them to observe all that He commanded us. Most people don't realize that "the name" in Greek meant everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is aroused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, i.e. for one’s rank, cause, authority, character, command, excellences, deeds etc. So to immerse people in the name of God (Father, Son, and Spirit) is to immerse them in the good news of who He is, what He has done, and what His plans are for us. In other words to share the gospel with everyone and anyone. That is certainly still valid for today.As far as observing all that He commands us, this is true for today as well. Not the rigid set of rules given to Moses for hard hearted people, but the fulfillment of His Law which is the Spirit of grace. He writes the Spirit of His Law on our hearts and minds by the regeneration of them by His Spirit. Therefore, we keep His commandments out of love because He has fulfilled His Law in us:Titus 3:5-7 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Hebrews 10:14-17 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says, "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. Romans 8:13-17 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him. 1 John 2:3-6 By this WE KNOW that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked. 1 John 3:7-10 Little children, MAKE SURE NO ONE DECEIVES YOU; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. BY THIS the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.John 14:15-31 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him." Judas (not Iscariot) *said to Him, "Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?" Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me. "These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. "Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful. "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. "Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe. "I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing in Me; but so that the world may know that I love the Father, I do exactly as the Father commanded Me. Get up, let us go from here.1 John 5:2-3 By this WE KNOW that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.1 John 5:18 We know that NO ONE who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.SealedEternal
 

winsome

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Richard,I have limited time and I don't have time for all this. But I'll give you these thoughts.If Paul was the “apostle to the gentiles” and had a different gospel to Peter and the other apostles, why did Paul always go the Jews first?So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia; and from there they sailed to Cyprus. When they arrived at Salamis, they proclaimed the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. (Acts 13:4-5)Then Paul and his companions set sail from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia. John, however, left them and returned to Jerusalem; but they went on from Perga and came to Antioch in Pisidia. And on the sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. After the reading of the law and the prophets, the officials of the synagogue sent them a message, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, give it.” So Paul stood up and with a gesture began to speak: (Acts 13:13-16)The same thing occurred in Iconium, where Paul and Barnabas went into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks became believers. (Acts 14:1)After Paul and Silas had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three sabbath days argued with them from the scriptures, explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This is the Messiah, Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you.” (Acts17:1-3).It was only when the Jews rejected him in a place that he turned to the GentilesThen both Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken first to you. Since you reject it and judge yourselves to be unworthy of eternal life, we are now turning to the Gentiles. (Acts 13:46)Did he preach one gospel to the Jews in the synagogue and a different one to the gentiles outside?If the Jews were to be under a different gospel and keep all their own laws in their own Jewish program, why did Paul teach something different to Jews?When we arrived in Jerusalem, the brothers welcomed us warmly. The next day Paul went with us to visit James; and all the elders were present. After greeting them, he related one by one the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. When they heard it, they praised God. Then they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands of believers there are among the Jews, and they are all zealous for the law. They have been told about you that you teach all the Jews living among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, and that you tell them not to circumcise their children or observe the customs. (Acts 21:17-21)winsome
 

tim_from_pa

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Good post Windsome. Yes, Paul did also go to the Jews. However, he was the first apostle that God revealed non-Israelite Gentiles were also included (i.e The mystery of the gospel)and in that respect stood out from amongst the rest.When Jesus said to go into all nations, the original apostles understood that to mean that they were to seek out those in the dispersion, including the lost tribes of Israel, and tell them about Messiah. Upon His ascension the angel said he'd come back in like manner and the disciples knew that Messiah would gather all the tribes of Israel back into the land again, so they had to hear the message. This is why when Jesus stated:Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me. Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come.The Jews then answered:Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles? In other words, the Gentiles were the lost tribes and these tribes were considered so lost (as Jews are basically only two tribes) that they were unreachable except by Messiah and only Messiah could find them. There is a lot of humor in that passage if one understands about the tribes of Israel, otherwise this goes over like a lead balloon.Then Paul comes along and the apostles are sort of surprised that the preaching is also done amongst the Gentiles without Israelite blood. Peter for sure did not know until Acts chapter 10 that this was the case.
 

winsome

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Good post Windsome. Yes, Paul did also go to the Jews. However, he was the first apostle that God revealed non-Israelite Gentiles were also included (i.e The mystery of the gospel)and in that respect stood out from amongst the rest.
God sent Peter to the Gentiles before Paul - see Acts 10
 

RichardBurger

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Obviously no one can see past their standard theology and focus on the truth. None of your replies say anything about the main point in the OP.You all have written many words but none of them say anything about Gal. 2 where James and the Elders made a deal with Paul; that Paul would go to the Gentiles and they to the Jews. --- Since modern Christian theology states that the church was built on the 12 Apostles could it be built on the wrong one?It is as if Gal 2 was not even written since no one wants to consider it.My, what great scholars we have here. You all are so involved in false teaching that your eyes are shut to the truth.Richard
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SealedEternal

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Obviously no one can see past their standard theology and focus on the truth. None of your replies say anything about the main point in the OP.You all have written many words but none of them say anything about Gal. 2 where James and the Elders made a deal with Paul; that Paul would go to the Gentiles and they to the Jews. --- Since modern Christian theology states that the church was built on the 12 Apostles could it be built on the wrong one?It is as if Gal 2 was not even written since no one wants to consider it.My, what great scholars we have here. You all are so involved in false teaching that your eyes are shut to the truth.Richard
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You talk about the pot and the kettle. Your whole premise that Paul didn't believe in the great commission is false. He; possibly more than anyone else in scripture; made disciples in all the nations, immersing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that Christ had commanded. This assignment was always Christ's plan, and has not changed to this day, and certainly Paul as much as anyone fulfilled it and encouraged others to do the same.SealedEternal
 

winsome

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Obviously no one can see past their standard theology and focus on the truth. None of your replies say anything about the main point in the OP.You all have written many words but none of them say anything about Gal. 2 where James and the Elders made a deal with Paul; that Paul would go to the Gentiles and they to the Jews. --- Since modern Christian theology states that the church was built on the 12 Apostles could it be built on the wrong one?It is as if Gal 2 was not even written since no one wants to consider it.My, what great scholars we have here. You all are so involved in false teaching that your eyes are shut to the truth.Richard
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You hang far too much on your personal interpretation of one line of scripture. You have been shown that Paul acrtually went to the Jews as first choice; that Peter went to the Gentiles on God's direct instructions.I would also point out that Paul did not start his mission until about 10 years after his conversion. The apostles did not wait for that long to convert them. They sent Paul Barnabus to Antioch when there were already some Christians there. It was Barnabus who brought Paul into the frame.Moreover consider Pentecost:"Now there were devout Jews from every nation under heaven living in Jerusalem. And at this sound the crowd gathered and was bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in the native language of each. Amazed and astonished, they asked, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us, in our own native language? Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11Cretans and Arabs—in our own languages we hear them speaking about God’s deeds of power.”" (Acts 2:5-11)There were 3 thousand converted that day. Why were there so many from all over the world? Because it was Pentecost and Jews came from around the world for the feast. After that they went home and took the message with them. That's how Christianity got to Rome before Paul, to Antioch before Barnabus, and to many other places around the world.Your thesis is full of holes.
 

tim_from_pa

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My, what great scholars we have here. You all are so involved in false teaching that your eyes are shut to the truth.
All I said was about Judah and Israel and how the gospel relates. What error or false teaching is in that?
 

eliyahu

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Might I sugest a different perspective?The Great Commision of Mat 28 was to the twelve apostles. Paul had a similar commision later. "Apostle" simply means "sent one" or "emissary."The great commission seems to be a call to apostles who spiritually build churches. They must go somewhere and do it. If someone has the spiritual ability to do this and they feel a call and go and do the work and they go and do it, they are effectually apostles fulfilling the great commision. God has sent them to be his representantives to the lost and to the new believers who need discipleship.They are obviously not apostles in the same way as Paul and the twelve. They can make mistakes and be wrong, as some of the 12 apostles were at times. They won't write any new scripture. They won't be personally trained by Jesus in the flesh. But they can be raised up and sent by the Spirit and the church in the way like Paul was. They can plant churches and work miracles. They can be martyred. They can be opposed by false apostles and teachers.Oh Yeah, the apostles today face something the ones back then will never face. They face generations of ingrained false teaching saying that there are no apostles today but only pastors and teachors and evangelists. :naughty: How silly.
 

Christina

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Sorry but that is your idea, not mine, and I don't believe it to be true.Richard
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Well thats ashame because it is written Eze.37:17-22It is also written in parabables and a riddle in Eze.17 And I disagree with some other points in your studySatan is bound for a thousand years after the second coming not before.
 

RichardBurger

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You hang far too much on your personal interpretation of one line of scripture. You have been shown that Paul acrtually went to the Jews as first choice; that Peter went to the Gentiles on God's direct instructions.I would also point out that Paul did not start his mission until about 10 years after his conversion. The apostles did not wait for that long to convert them. They sent Paul Barnabus to Antioch when there were already some Christians there. It was Barnabus who brought Paul into the frame.Moreover consider Pentecost:"Now there were devout Jews from every nation under heaven living in Jerusalem. And at this sound the crowd gathered and was bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in the native language of each. Amazed and astonished, they asked, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us, in our own native language? Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11Cretans and Arabs—in our own languages we hear them speaking about God’s deeds of power.”" (Acts 2:5-11)There were 3 thousand converted that day. Why were there so many from all over the world? Because it was Pentecost and Jews came from around the world for the feast. After that they went home and took the message with them. That's how Christianity got to Rome before Paul, to Antioch before Barnabus, and to many other places around the world.Your thesis is full of holes.
The scripture tells us:Gal 2:6-106 But from those who seemed to be something — whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man — for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me.7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.10 They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do. NKJVI really don't see that verse 9 has to be interpreted. It says what it says. But you are just doing what many do when they don't want to be pinned down to the truth.Richard
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winsome

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The scripture tells us:Gal 2:6-106 But from those who seemed to be something — whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man — for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me.7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.10 They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do. NKJVI really don't see that verse 9 has to be interpreted. It says what it says. But you are just doing what many do when they don't want to be pinned down to the truth.Richard
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I've explained how your theory is full of holes. You haven't attempted to plug any of them. Just repeating your leaky theory doesn't make it any better.
 

winsome

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9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.I really don't see that verse 9 has to be interpreted. It says what it says. But you are just doing what many do when they don't want to be pinned down to the truth.Richard
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There are other interpretations
 

RichardBurger

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Well thats ashame because it is written Eze.37:17-22It is also written in parabables and a riddle in Eze.17 And I disagree with some other points in your studySatan is bound for a thousand years after the second coming not before.
My OP has nothing to do with Eze.37:17-22My OP has nothing to do with Eze. 17My OP has nothing to do with the 1000-year reign of Christ.My OP has nothing to do with Satan being bound.I am at a loss as to why you replied to me.Richard
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RichardBurger

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I've explained how your theory is full of holes. You haven't attempted to plug any of them. Just repeating your leaky theory doesn't make it any better.
There is no need for me to try and plug the holes you say exist because you would only continue to say it.Richard
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RichardBurger

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The scriptures say;9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.I gather by all the replies that this scripture doesn't mean anything. Certainly it does not mean what it says and must be interpreted for us to be able to see what it means. -- But in any case they broke their agreements.What foolishness.Richard