How do you respond to "Christians are hypocrites"?

Hello again @friend of,

When you consider the life that is to come, in Christ, in the New Earth and the New Heaven, 'wherein dwelleth righteousness', who would want not to be part of it?!

All the turmoil and upheaval of life, with sin and death surrounding us, will be gone: and the love and grace of God will surround us. It will be more glorious than anything we can possibly imagine. We will be the recipients of God's lovingkindness through Christ Jesus for eternity. No more death, no more sorrow or pain; but joy and gladness in a heaven and earth reborn.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Dave L said:

Hypocrite = actor. We see People whom God changes who live Christian lives. And we see people who think you must do the things Christians do in order to be one. Since Christians believe, they think you must choose to believe. Since Christians repent, they repent in order to be one. And so on. But this is the main problem with salvation by works. It turns people into hypocrites.

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First of all, repenting is not a work...it is a change of attitude.

Secondly, have you never read the scripture that says that God calls all men everywhere to repent?

Or the scripture where Jesus said, not once but twice, Except ye repent, you will all likewise perish?

Your theology might lead someone to believe that they can enter into the kingdom of heaven with repentance absent.

I would say, however, that if someone repents because they are predestinated as one of the elect (as opposed to becoming the elect because of repentance), that if they have not repented, they cannot have the assurance that they are of the elect.

friend of said:

When sharing the faith every so often as we are called to do it can't be uncommon to encounter the phrase "I'm not a Christian because all Christians are hypocrites" or something similar.

How do you refocus the conversation away from negativity and back on promoting the gospel in a positive way?

For myself, I have to nod and agree and respect that they feel this way before going on about my own experience with the gospel and how it's completely changed my life, hoping that they will respect in kind.

How do you demonstrate to acquaintances that Christians aren't all hypocrites?

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I've heard this when I told people I'm a Christian. It's hard to defend when you have Christians doing nasty things. I usually have to agree with them that Christians can sin as much as unbelievers. I unfortunately had to tell one of my family members not to trust someone just because they claim they're a Christian. I think that's a way to fool people to let their guard down. I learned that the hard way. I don't know if my way is right or not but I usually agree with the person that Christians can be as much of a snake as the unbeliever, but then I add that not all Christians are the same; that some are further along and sanctified than others. I've seen my husband and I both be hypocrites at times. We try hard and try to correct it when we do it. I think one of Satan's snares are that he intentionally dogs the steps of the saints to try to trip them up. Then it ruins their testimony to others.

We were in one church where the family was very corrupt who owned the church. They cheated a lot of people out of their money, including us. The pastor who left their church told us that they caused so much trouble at one church in the area that there are people who refuse to step in a church anymore. They have absolutely no guilt. I contacted their new "pastor" and asked him how the Word of God could come out of his mouth. He refused to answer me. He knows what that family is, and how many people they've hurt, yet he chooses to preach at their "church" which is really a citadel of hell, where they lead the unwary. So I see where people can be turned off by "Christianity."

justbyfaith said:

First of all, repenting is not a work...it is a change of attitude.

Secondly, have you never read the scripture that says that God calls all men everywhere to repent?

Or the scripture where Jesus said, not once but twice, Except ye repent, you will all likewise perish?

Your theology might lead someone to believe that they can enter into the kingdom of heaven with repentance absent.

I would say, however, that if someone repents because they are predestinated as one of the elect (as opposed to becoming the elect because of repentance), that if they have not repented, they cannot have the assurance that they are of the elect.

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Faith without works is dead. Repentance is not only a change of mind, it is works that prove faith.

Dave L said:

Faith without works is dead. Repentance is not only a change of mind, it is works that prove faith.

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Repentance is indeed not only a turning from sin but a turning to God in faith: an evidence of faith. Romans 2 contains Paul's great treatise on repentance.

justbyfaith said:

The definition of the church is that it is the body of Christ, composed of every member, defined as individuals within the body. These members of the body of Christ are defined as those who have believed in and continue to believe in the gospel as defined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

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Hi and thank you.

Here is a scenario happening today: A member of a church reveals that she believes that getting an abortion is not a sin and gay marriage is blessed by God. Appalled at this 2-3 members of the church tell her she is wrong and give scripture verses to support their stance. She still disagrees and she says they are wrong. Using your interpretation of Scripture (the Church is composed of every member) how does one fulfill Matthew 18:17 in that scenario?

Based on your interpretation of scripture that means all the members of that specific church decide if she is to be treated as a heathen and publican? Thinking that SHE has the correct interpretation of scripture she goes across the street to a different church and they welcome her with open arms and agree with her that abortion is not murder and God is ok with us marrying the person we love and man can't stop love.

Two different churches; both have 10,000 members. Clearly two different interpretations of Scripture. How does this true life scenario fit into Jesus prayer in John 17:21-23? If Jesus wants us all to be one, complete unity, then how do we decide which ONE of those Churches has interpreted Scripture correctly so that we can follow what they teach and fulfill Jesus prayer; that we are all one? Which one of those churches is the pillar and foundation of Truth?

I don't see how 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 defines what a church is. However, using that passage it says in part '.....if you hold firmly to the message that I proclaimed to you—unless you have come to believe in vain." In my aforementioned scenario which church is holding firmly to the message that Paul preached?

I look forward to your response, Mary

PS.....Out of a church of 10,000 let's say 5,001 vote that according to scripture gay marriage is not acceptable and 4,999 vote that it is acceptable. How is that handled? Do the 4,999 have to stop believing what they believe or do they go start their own church?

Stranger said:

Willie T is correct. Being a sinner is not being a hypocrite. If I claimed I was not a sinner, now that I am a believer, then I would be a hypocrite. But I don't claim that and neither do you.

Or, let's say I carried the 'right to life banner' loudly. I preached it constantly. But then, let's say, my daughter got pregnant out of wedlock and I advised her to get an abortion. That would be hypocritical.

But our daily walk with God, which includes failings, and sin, is not being a hypocrite.

Stranger

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Hi Stranger,

I will try to make my thoughts more clear: As Christians we are all to avoid sin and go make disciples of all nations (preach the faith). If we are preaching the faith and telling others to avoid sin, and then we sin (which we do), then we are hypocrites.

If we call ourselves Christian but don't preach the faith, then we are hypocrites, because we as Christians are supposed to preach the faith.

In both situations the person is being a hypocrite: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs

Mary

Willie T said:

As usual, you seem to have missed everything.

If ANYONE blindly follows someone else, without question, they risk being misguided by them. Beyond that, you, Mary, don't seem to decide for yourself the value or Biblical accuracy of what your teachers (the Priests, et al) tell you. You tell us that you accept it as being "The Truth" because it came from a particular organization, the Catholic Church.

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Hi Willie. I need some clarification.

You are saying that I should not, without question, blindly follow someone else or I risk being misguided by them. I agree with you 100% on that statement.

In my case that would be the CC. You seem to think I am blindly following them. It seems to me you are saying that the men of the CC are not accurate in their Biblical interpretations? You suggested that I don't or haven't decided for myself the accuracy of what they are teaching. Are you suggesting that I have not read Scripture to determine if what they are teaching is accurate? If so, how did you come to that conclusion?

In your case, who would that be. Who would be the one that has given you an accurate interpretation of Scripture? Would that be YOU since YOU have read scripture and determined that the men of the CC are NOT accurate in their teaching? Should I bible study with you so that I may obtain the Truth that you have??

Or did you obtain the Truth from someone else? If so, would you please point me toward that someone else so I can bible study with them?

Patient Mary

PS....Thank you for not saying anything vile.

Marymog said:

Hi and thank you.

Here is a scenario happening today: A member of a church reveals that she believes that getting an abortion is not a sin and gay marriage is blessed by God. Appalled at this 2-3 members of the church tell her she is wrong and give scripture verses to support their stance. She still disagrees and she says they are wrong. Using your interpretation of Scripture (the Church is composed of every member) how does one fulfill Matthew 18:17 in that scenario?

Based on your interpretation of scripture that means all the members of that specific church decide if she is to be treated as a heathen and publican? Thinking that SHE has the correct interpretation of scripture she goes across the street to a different church and they welcome her with open arms and agree with her that abortion is not murder and God is ok with us marrying the person we love and man can't stop love.

Two different churches; both have 10,000 members. Clearly two different interpretations of Scripture. How does this true life scenario fit into Jesus prayer in John 17:21-23? If Jesus wants us all to be one, complete unity, then how do we decide which ONE of those Churches has interpreted Scripture correctly so that we can follow what they teach and fulfill Jesus prayer; that we are all one? Which one of those churches is the pillar and foundation of Truth?

I don't see how 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 defines what a church is. However, using that passage it says in part '.....if you hold firmly to the message that I proclaimed to you—unless you have come to believe in vain." In my aforementioned scenario which church is holding firmly to the message that Paul preached?

I look forward to your response, Mary

PS.....Out of a church of 10,000 let's say 5,001 vote that according to scripture gay marriage is not acceptable and 4,999 vote that it is acceptable. How is that handled? Do the 4,999 have to stop believing what they believe or do they go start their own church?

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This question is very much like when the Sadducees presented to Jesus the scenario of the seven men who had married the same wife.

You know not the scriptures neither the power of God.

Someone who takes pleasure in those who practice such things as abortion and gay marriage is not a Christian (Romans 1:32 and context); they may say that they believe, but since their pov differs from the pov of Jesus Christ, how can He be their Lord? If He really is their Lord, then their pov will change pretty quickly; but they cannot continue with such a pov and really be saved. If you are really one of His sheep then the Lord speaks to you, John 10:27; and therefore I believe that the Lord would speak to someone (correcting them) who has such a faulty pov, very shortly after saving them.

Therefore the church does not consist of people who walk into a building, but of the people who compose the body of Christ.

As for church discipline in such a situation, I find that the apostate state of the church today does complicate things so that it cannot be practiced the same way as when the church was pure and holy.

But if you have a congregation where the word of God is uncompromisingly preached and the people are finding real salvation, then those who do have real salvation would be the judges.

The following must take place:

Mal 3:18, Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Dave L said:

Faith without works is dead. Repentance is not only a change of mind, it is works that prove faith.

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Repentance is not the same things as works. Good works are the result of repentance.

Willie T said:

BTW, where I attend, we actually DO take things to other regular members. It might eventually get all the way up to the preacher or elders (which WE chose to lead us) if we can't work it out, but often they never even hear of issues many of us have worked out among ourselves.

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Hi Willie,

I believe we should follow the example of the Apostles as written in Scripture. You, I assume, believe the same thing.

Can you please show me in scripture where the congregation picks the preacher or elder (leader) of their Church?

Mary

edited #69.

justbyfaith said:

This question is very much like when the Sadducees presented to Jesus the scenario of the seven men who had married the same wife.

You know not the scriptures neither the power of God.

Someone who takes pleasure in those who practice such things as abortion and gay marriage is not a Christian (Romans 1:32 and context); they may say that they believe, but since their pov differs from the pov of Jesus Christ, how can He be their Lord? If He really is their Lord, then their pov will change pretty quickly; but they cannot continue with such a pov and really be saved. If you are really one of His sheep then the Lord speaks to you, John 10:27; and therefore I believe that the Lord would speak to someone (correcting them) who has such a faulty pov, very shortly after saving them.

Therefore the church does not consist of people who walk into a building, but of the people who compose the body of Christ.

As for church discipline in such a situation, I find that the apostate state of the church today does complicate things so that it cannot be practiced the same way as when the church was pure and holy.

But if you have a congregation where the word of God is uncompromisingly preached and the people are finding real salvation, then those who do have real salvation would be the judges.

The following must take place:

Mal 3:18, Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

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Thank you Just By Faith.

I don't see an answer to my question. Let me ask it again using your own verbiage:

Church #1 consider themselves Christian who, in their pov, believe that abortion and gay marriage is acceptable to God. They have used Scripture to back up their beliefs.

Church#2 consider themselves Christian who, in their pov, believe that abortion and gay marriage is NOT acceptable to God. They have used Scripture to back up their beliefs.

Extend this to the doctrine of the Real Presence, Baptism saves or it doesn't' save, The Trinity etc. all of which are accepted/rejected by various churches. How is it decided which Church (#1 or #2) has the right pov and are His sheep OR which one has the faulty pov and are not His sheep?

Who decides WHICH Church is where the word of God is being uncompromisingly preached and the people are finding real salvation?

Who decides which congregation has the people in it with real salvation that will be the judges?

According to your theory the members of the church JUDGE all this soooooo which church are you talking about?

Please don't say the congregation where the word of God is uncompromisingly preached and the people are finding real salvation because that is a circular argument and means nothing.

Mary

Marymog said:

Church #1 consider themselves Christian who, in their pov, believe that abortion and gay marriage is acceptable to God. They have used Scripture to back up their beliefs.

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What scripture?

Marymog said:

Please don't say the congregation where the word of God is uncompromisingly preached and the people are finding real salvation

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Sorry, but that is what I am going to say.

Jesus said, you must be born again. The only way to be born again is through hearing accurate, Holy Ghost anointed, preaching. Those who are not born again are not part of the true church, although they may set foot in the building.

Marymog said:

Extend this to the doctrine of the Real Presence, Baptism saves or it doesn't' save, The Trinity etc. all of which are accepted/rejected by various churches. How is it decided which Church (#1 or #2) has the right pov and are His sheep OR which one has the faulty pov and are not His sheep?

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We can only continue to grow in our understanding of God's word. If someone who is truly born again has a faulty pov, then you can be sure that the Lord will correct them on it in His timing (for His Spirit is the Spirit of truth). In the meantime, his or her faith in the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) is what makes him or her a part of the body of Christ.

justbyfaith said:

Repentance is not the same things as works. Good works are the result of repentance.

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But repentance apart from first being born again and having the Holy Spirit is of the flesh and therefore sin.

Marymog said:

Who decides WHICH Church is where the word of God is being uncompromisingly preached and the people are finding real salvation?

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That would be the Lord on the day of judgment. In the meantime He has given us His Spirit, those of us who are born of Him. If you are not born again then you cannot discern it. But if you have His Spirit, then His Spirit in you can discern what His decision is concerning the question you have posted above.

Dave L said:

But repentance apart from first being born again and having the Holy Spirit is of the flesh and therefore sin.

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So, are you saying that the Lord will not honour such a repentance?

Calvinism is supposed to be a source of assurance for its adherents; however, the way you preach it, you take away real, solid assurance from those who have done what it takes to receive salvation.

justbyfaith said:

So, are you saying that the Lord will not honour such a repentance?

Calvinism is supposed to be a source of assurance for its adherents; however, the way you preach it, you take away real, solid assurance from those who have done what it takes to receive salvation.

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Flesh repentance brings material prosperity and long life in most cases but does not save. The OT Jews had this type of arrangement. But the born again among them had holy natures that naturally lived repentant lifestyles. As do true Christians.