Why John 6:37 is grossly misunderstood and misapplied

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CoreIssue

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Of course, one of the main reasons there is division in the body of Christ is because men became teachers to pander to itching ears, and wrote translations other than the kjv in contradiction to the truth. Thus it is fulfilled:

2Ti 4:3, For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4, And they shall turn away their ears from the truth...

I agree there's a lot of itching ears out there.

What you don't understand is that your ears are itching a lot with your insistence Mosaic law is still force..
 
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justbyfaith

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What you don't understand is that your ears are itching a lot with your insistence Mosaic law is still force..
I don't insist that...what I say is that the law of the Lord governs us from the inside but no longer has the power to condemn us from the outside if we have received Jesus as Saviour and Lord.
 

Jun2u

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In order for a person to come to Jesus, he must be given to Him by the Father.

Not quite. God the Father must first draw him then given to Jesus.

This would indicate that if someone does not come to Jesus, it is because he was not given to Him.

I’ve already answered this statement from the previous post 14.

Your thoughts?

Jude 1:3-4 must be read in it’s entirety, especially verse 15.
Also, 1 Corinthians 15:22: “For as in Adam all die...”

To God Be The Glory
 

justbyfaith

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Not quite. God the Father must first draw him then given to Jesus.

Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

This would indicate that if someone doesn't come to Jesus it is because the Father didn't give them to Jesus. Can someone come to Jesus without first being given to Him by the Father? I suppose they could; but no one who is given to Jesus by the Father will not come to Jesus, according to this verse. I think that we can safely extrapolate from these things that the person that does not come to Jesus does not do so because the Father did not give them to Jesus. Because all whom the Father giveth to Him shall come to Him; and therefore, if those who are not given to Him do come to Him, then all will be saved; unless you want to say that there are some who are not given to Him that also do not come to Him (but that some who are not given to Him will come to Him); while I am saying that all who are not given to Him will not come to Him and that the delineation is made by the fact of whether the Father gave them to Him or not. Therefore those who do not come to Jesus do not do so because they were not given to Him by the Father; because all who do come to Jesus come to Him because they are. Thus a line in the sand is drawn: those who are given to Jesus will come to Him and those who are not given to Him will not.

I’ve already answered this statement from the previous post 14.

Post 14 does not answer the reality of what John 6:37, above, teaches us.
 
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Enoch111

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Therefore those who do not come to Jesus do not do so because they were not given to Him by the Father; because all who do come to Jesus come to Him because they are. Thus a line in the sand is drawn: those who are given to Jesus will come to Him and those who are not given to Him will not.
This verse must be understood in the light of all Gospel truth, with the clear understanding that the Bible does not contradict itself.

So before we arrive at the meaning of this verse, we need to ask ourselves: Does God desire the salvation of all mankind, and did Christ die for the sins of the whole world? And the biblical answers are there. We can take just one passage and review it (1 Tim 2:1-6):

1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions,and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

According to this passage:
1. Are prayers to be offered up for all men? Absolutely
2. Is it God's will that all men should be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth? Absolutely
3. Did Christ give Himself a ransom for all? Absolutely

Which would mean that John 6:37 could be understood as God the Father giving the whole human race to Christ. And indeed that would be God's will. But we know from other Scriptures that only those who obey the Gospel will come to Christ. So the only proper way to understand "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me..." is that only those who obey the Gospel are the ones (the "all") given by the Father to the Son in order to receive the gift of eternal.
 
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Dave L

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Those who believe in so-called *Unconditional Election* (from the five Points of Calvinism) interpret John 6:37 as though it means that God the Father chooses (predestines and elects) some for salvation (which would also mean that He elects some for damnation). But the context makes it clear that the meaning is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what is assumed. The context of this verse is as below (in the KJV)

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Therefore we need to start with verse 40, and what it says is that (a) everyone is given the opportunity to see the Son and believe on Him (through the Gospel), (b) those who believe on Him will receive the gift of everlasting life, and (c) those who receive everlasting life will be resurrected and receive immortal, glorified bodies.

Then we go to verse 39, which speaks of the eternal security of the believer, which means that those who are genuinely saved cannot lose their salvation, and will be raised again on *the Last Day* (which is not one 24 hour day).

Then we go to verse 38, and see that Christ came to do the will of the Father, not His own will. But what was the will of the Father? For that we need to go to John 3:17, which tells us that the will of the Father was the salvation of THE WHOLE WORLD:
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. And this is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Unconditional Election.

So now we come to verse 37, which tells us that God draws all men to Christ, but only those who believe are the ones who are given to Him, and these are the ones who will come to Him, and whom He will not cast out.

Scripture also tells us that just as the Father draws men to Christ through the Gospel, the Son does the same, and so does the Holy Spirit. In other words the triune Godhead acts in concert with the Gospel to bring about the salvation of sinners. But only those who obey the Gospel, and respond with repentance and faith, will be saved and eternally secure, to be raised up on the *Last Day*.
3/4 of the converts in the parable of the sower fail. But the seed that fell on good ground thrived. What makes the ground good? Regeneration (a new heart)? Or self-righteousness which robs God of his glory?

Only those, “Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:13) (KJV 1900) are saved.
 
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Dave L

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There are only 3 ways people think salvation happens. 1) they save themselves through obedience. This is Pelagianism also called salvation by works. 2) People and God each contribute to a person's salvation. But the person must ultimately choose to remain obedient to obtain salvation. This is semi-pelagianism and is the most popular belief today among Catholics and Evangelicals, cults and sects. And 3) God alone saves people by grace through faith. Only those whom he saves will exhibit enduring faith and holiness.
 

justbyfaith

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Which would mean that John 6:37 could be understood as God the Father giving the whole human race to Christ.
If that be the case, then the whole human race will come to Christ,

Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
 

Jun2u

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Post 14 does not answer the reality of what John 6:37, above, teaches us.

YOU JUST DON’T GET IT, DO YOU?

Why not read John 6:44 word-by-word or, phrase-by-phrase, knowing that Scripture do not contradict each other? In this case, John 6:37 do not contradict John 6:44 and vice versa.

Already in verse 44 Jesus is saying, “no man can come to me except the Father draw him.” What? Did this phrase sunk in? Do you understand it’s meaning?

Your confusion is in verse 37. You are suggesting part “a” and part “b” have different meanings yet they are the same . Part “a” reads: “all that the Father gives me will come to me.” Part “b” reads: “and him that comes to me...” Who are these that come to Jesus? None other than those that the Father gives Him! They are born in different times in history.

We have to find our answers elsewhere in Scripture.

And sure enough, the prove is that no one in and of himself will seek or come to God according to Romans 3:10-11! THAT IS AN IMPOSSIBILITY!

FYI, the Bible is one cohesive whole, everything fits well together in harmony.

To God Be The Glory
 
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Jun2u

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God alone saves people by grace through faith. Only those whom he saves will exhibit enduring faith and holiness.

It is the norm in Christendom to teach faith along with salvation. What is your take or understanding on faith and salvation go hand-in-hand. Let me make it clear. Our faith?

I don't believe in the teaching of Christendom. I believe the Bible has a different meaning on faith in this case.

To God Be The Glory
 
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Dave L

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It is the norm in Christendom to teach faith along with salvation. What is your take or understanding on faith and salvation go hand-in-hand. Let me make it clear. Our faith?

I don't believe in the teaching of Christendom. I believe the Bible has a different meaning on faith in this case.

To God Be The Glory
So you are the only one who is right and all of Christendom wrong?
 

Jun2u

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So you are the only one who is right and all of Christendom wrong?

Isn't that possible?

Why do you answer a question with a question? Was the question too difficult for you? I suppose you had no answer that's understandable!
 
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Dave L

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Isn't that possible?

Why do you answer a question with a question? Was the question too difficult for you? I suppose you had no answer that's understandable!
You need to run for President while you're at it.
 

CoreIssue

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So you are the only one who is right and all of Christendom wrong?

The problem with what you say here is your definition of Christiandom. You deny anybody that isn't Calvinist and does not adhere to the so-called ECF, who were Catholics. And you present ancient Catholic meetings as being the source of accurate doctrine, which it is not.

We've gained so much historical material when the Bible and the early church days claims such as yours have long been disproven.
 
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Jun2u

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You need to run for President while you're at it.

OK I got it. You would be a poor subject any way.

Besides, I already knew you couldn’t answer the question even if you tried, because it is spiritually discerned. Are you spiritual? Oops, a question again. I apologize.
 

Jun2u

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Only those, “Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:13) (KJV 1900) are saved.

John 1:13 is a true statement. However, it is not the cause but rather the result of salvation.
 
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justbyfaith

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And sure enough, the prove is that no one in and of himself will seek or come to God according to Romans 3:10-11! THAT IS AN IMPOSSIBILITY!

FYI, the Bible is one cohesive whole, everything fits well together in harmony.

1Ch 16:11, Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.

2Ch 7:14, If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Psa 24:6, This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.

Psa 27:8, When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

Psa 105:4, Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.

Pro 7:15, Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee.
 

Jun2u

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Pro 7:15, Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee.

Ring a bell? Doesn’t this verse above remind you of the verse you write at the bottom of each of your posts? Yes! The account of the publican in Luke 18. He did not so much as lift his eyes up to look into heaven, but smote his breast saying God be merciful to me a sinner. He went home justified.

Can the publican who is spiritually dead and sold to sin, and in contrast with Romans 3:10-11 truly seek after God? But he did didn’t he? What had to have happened? John 6:44 happened!!! God was drawing (chosen, named, elected, predestined) him to Salvation, the same way He did and is doing with all of His children.

I repeat, NO ONE, in and of himself, CAN BE SAVED UNLESS THE FATHER DRAW HIM!!!

To God Be The Glory
 
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