The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath

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herald

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A sign of The Antichrist is "...he thinks to change times and laws." Dan 7:25. He, only, "thinks to change," because no man/institution can overrule our Creator and change His law. There is, only, one time in His Covenant - the Sabbath. "Of course," he continues, "I quite well know that Sunday did come into us in early Christian history as a religious day, as we learn from the Christian fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, when adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!"Our Creator instituted the Sabbath as part of the Creation Covenant with Adam, and so with all of mankind. Jesus referred to Himself, as the "Lord of the Sabbath." Mt 12:8; Mk 2:28; Lu 6:5. Sunday was called, "The Lord's Day," in sun worship, common in The Roman Empire.To say, that,the Sabbath is obsolete, is to reject the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, who prophesied, that, the Sabbath would be kept during The Great Tribulation: "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on The Sabbath day: for then shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, nor ever shall be." Mt 24:20,21. And we are not there, yet.When Jesus gave us the "Two Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law. Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18. These two are a summation of The Ten:If you love the Lord, supremely, you will not worship or bow down to other gods, take His name in vain, or, profane His holy day.If you love your neighbor as yourself, you will honor your parents, do no murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, or, covet."By this we know that we love the children of God (Greatest Commandment #2), when we love God (#1) and keep His commandments: For this is love, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2,3.Not for those under The New Covenant, who have His Covenant engraved upon their hearts and minds. Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10;10:12-17. Born again believers are called, "the seed of Abraham." Ga 3:16,29. "For he is not a Jew, who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Rom 2:28,29."As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions (of the law: 1 John 3:4) from us...to such as keep His Covenant and to those that remember His commandments to do them." Ps 103.Covenants have conditions.Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.His church keeps His commandments: "And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17.His saints keep His commandments: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12.At the very end of the Book of all Books, the Apostle John wrote, "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.There are Ten Commandments in His Covenant - not nine. And they are commandments, and not requests."Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." Ex 20:8.
 

Christina

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The Sabbath like all others Laws was fulfilled in Christ he has become our rest futher more there is no scripture that ever said the Sabbath or any other day was a day of Worship. It was a Day of Rest not a day of Worship that is a misconception by men because they were to rest on that day they used it to worship God never said any day was a day of worship but that everyday we are to worship Sabbath was for rest. Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
 

atrhick

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I respectfully disagree... here is why... the Ten Commandments of God are not the same as the ordinances God gave to Moses and why they are not done away with... look at the relationship of these text.
Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
Notice Moses told them to "Take this book of the law" it clearly stated that Moses wrote this book and asked them to "put it in the side of the ark of the covenant" so he instructed them to put it in the sideof the ark, and not inside of the ark of the covenant. If you will he asked them to put it in a pocket of the ark of the covenant. Remember God him self wrote the Ten Commandments on two tables of stone after which Moses broke. Then God instructed Moses to make two more tables so that he "God" can write the Ten Commandments again.When if comes to the New Covenant in Jar 31:33 it says
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
This is also very important, the reason the Old Covenant was dissolved was because as God said "which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD" so the Old Covenant was no good because "They broke it”. And they broke it because they said they would do all that God said for them to do, read below.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Exo 19:7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him. Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
So the people broke the Covenant not God. Now lets move to the New Covenant.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Notice Paul is using the same wording that Moses used in Deu 31:26
Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
So Jesus died taking away the "handwriting of ordinances that was against us...nailing it to his cross" remember again that the ordinances was given so that when the people sinned they would make a sacrifice and there sin was forgiven. So it is evident that Jesus is now our Sacrifice, hence we no longer have to give sacrifices, meat and drink offering. Listen to what Paul said about the ordinances
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
I have hear it said before that a dead man can keep 8 of God's Ten Commandments, so then why will us being alive then only keep 9 of the Ten, dont get me wrong we don't keep the Commandemts to be save, but we keep them becouse we are saved. I have a lot more I would say but I will wait for any questions you may have.
 

Christina

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I never said they were done away with I said they were fulfilled example we no longer need to sacrafice animals because Christ was the Eternal perfect sacrafical lamb. We no longer stone people for certain sins we repent in the name of Christ. He became the fulfilment so it is with the rest of the Stautes,ordances Laws. Sabbath is in full effect as are all the Laws But because Sabbath was never a Day of Worship it was a Day of Rest we are to rest in Jesus Christ
 

atrhick

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then how can you say it was never specified as a day when it saysExo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. As you can see Jesus did specify the 7th day... Why is it that everyone thinks its Sunday now... which we know from history and the admission of the Catholic Church that it is not a teaching from the bible, but a mans tradition?Sorry if I sound unfreindly ... thats not the case.. I am in a hurry:)
 

HammerStone

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No worries atr, the thing there, though, is that it says six days, not six days starting Monday. Just wanted to point that out, otherwise the Jewish faith which holds the Sabbath on Saturday would seem a little strange basing it off the very same book.Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
 

atrhick

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No worries atr, the thing there, though, is that it says six days, not six days starting Monday. Just wanted to point that out, otherwise the Jewish faith which holds the Sabbath on Saturday would seem a little strange basing it off the very same book.Colossians 2:16
Well your right about the Monday thing, however God named the days already, first day, second day, ect. The fact that someone came and changed the names of the days is of no consequence...but the verse you quoted "Colossians 2:16"Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Is actually talking about the Ordinances and not the Ten Commandments notice Paul said "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us" he is referring to Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. also Paul said "Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days"it’s evident that Paul is talking about the Ordinances here again. There is no mention of meat and drink in the Ten Commandments and also the Ten commandments has only one Sabbath no more, so the term "new moon, or of the Sabbath days" must be referring to something else.
 

HammerStone

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Partly correct here but there is an important part that you're missing, hence the reason I specifically quoted Colossians 2:16. When people start getting into the sabbath day thing, are you not doing exactly what Colossians 2:16 says not to do?Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Secondly, though I think you get it, we have the differences between a law, statute, and ordinance. I won't go over that because I don't think it necessary here, both kriss and myself have posted on this before.All of this is covered more specifically in Hebrews 4.Hebrews 4:1-4
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
What's the key point not to be missed here? That these people spoken of here missed the point and became more obsessed with the holy day than the Holy One himself. It always goes back toHosea 6:6
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
And, of course, this ties in with Colossians, particularly Colossians 2:16. Paul cautioned us not to make the same mistake that the scribes and Pharisees were making.Furthermore: Hebrews 4:5-10
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
I've often heard this positively misquoted, but read it all in context, and finish out the chapter for that much. The rest is Jesus the Christ. Mark 2:27-28
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Jesus was repeatedly accused of violating the Sabbath. He clearly would not violate his own rule otherwise he would not have been the perfect sacrifice.And frankly - I mean this as nicely as possible, but straight from the Bible - we're not to go around judging folks according to their upholding of the sabbath otherwise we're in direct violation of Colossians 2:16 which clearly says not to do it.
 

atrhick

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Good post,However Colossians 2:16 as I said before is not referring to anything with in the Ten Commandments. Any theologian or scholar will tell you this... Also I take no offence to anything you have said Denver as far as I am concerned you are a true man of God seeing that you so zealous after your own religion but let me add this one little clarification. I am not judging anyone. Just simply trying to make aware to everyone as best as I can that the Ten Commandments are still binding today. And not in the sense that we need them to be saved, but we keep them because we are saved..And I love all of you:)God Bless
 

tim_from_pa

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Secondly, though I think you get it, we have the differences between a law, statute, and ordinance. I won't go over that because I don't think it necessary here, both kriss and myself have posted on this before.
Hey Denver or Kriss:Could you please link me to the thread where you two talked about this? I read brief mentions of this before in your posts, but I could not find the thread(s) specifically dealing with the subject of laws, statutes, and ordinances. I'm curious as to what all was said. (Personal message is fine as well). Thanks.
 

crooner

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If Seventh Day Adventist would spend as much time arguing the Gospel as they do the sabbath Jesis would of come by now!!!!
 

atrhick

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If Seventh Day Adventist would spend as much time arguing the Gospel as they do the sabbath Jesis would of come by now!!!!
I could say that " if the Pentecostals would spend as much time poaching the Gospel as they do speaking in Tongues Jesus would have come already too:pray3:... or if Christians would act Christian, we would win more Soule to Christ:rolleyes:!Either one of those are not important (cant change time)... After work or durning work:cool: I will start another Topic... (Noting to do with the Sabbath or the commandments stay tuned)
 

herald

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There are Seventh day Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, SDA, non denominationals...and more and more all the time as they study the Sabbath.You are confusing the ceremonial law with the Ten Commandment Covenant. The ceremonial law: Jesus, the clean became unclean, so that we may be clean, circumcision is now of the heart, washings are baptism. The Sabbath Feasts were fulfilled:Passover: Our Passover LambUnleavened Bread: He was without sinTabernacles: He "tabernacled among us"...If the ceremonial law had not been fulfilled, we would, still, be sacrificing animals.The Ten Commandment Covenant deals with our character, and that is, still, in effect.Ceremonial Law:1. Is called, "the law contained on ordinances." Eph 2:152. Was spoken by Moses. Lev 1:1-33. Was written by Moses in a book. 11 Chon 35:124. Was placed in the side of The Ark. Deut 31:24-265. Was nailed to the cross. Col 2:146. Was abolished by Christ. Eph 2:15The Ten Commandment Covenant:1. Is called, the "royal law." Ja 2:82. Was spoken by God. Deut 4:12,133. Was written with the finger of God. Ex 31:184. Was placed inside The Ark. Ex 40:20; Heb 9:45. Is to "stand forever and ever." Ps 111:7,8.6. Was not destroyed by Christ. Mt 5:17,18.You are not, really, saying, that, we can worship and bow down to other gods, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonor our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet and walk with a holy God?So, why would you single out the fourth commandment from the rest?Jesus said, "Not every one that saith, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father, which is in heaven.MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity. (lawlessness) Mt 7:21-23."And hereby we do know that WE KNOW HIM, if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not His commandments, is a LIAR, and the Truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth His Word, in Him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby we do know that we are in Him. He that saith he abideth in His ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked." 1 John 2:3-6."A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.And I will put My Spirit within you and CAUSE YOU to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27.In Psalm 119, the word, "Word," is uded, interchangeably, with, "statutes," "precepts," "judgments," commandments," "testimonies," "law"...His Word = His law.His Holy Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29) enables us to obey His Word - His law."Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IN THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW." 1 John 3:4.Jesus said, the Sabbath would still, be kept during The Great Tribulation.Isaiah prophesied, that, we would keep the Sabbath in His Kingdom:"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before Me, saith the Lord,so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, saith the Lord. Isa 66:22,23.Even in heaven, the Lord makes quite a statement about His Covenant: "And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple The Ark of His Testament: and there were LIGHTNINGS, and VOICES, and THUNDERINGS, and AN EARTHQUAKE, and GREAT HAIL." Rev 11:19."And this is love, that we walk after His commandments." 2 John 6.
 

crooner

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No I am a third generation SDA and am sick of the sabbath arguement it has seperated us from other christians all over the world from working together as brothers and sisters in Christ. Keep the sabbath dont preach it. Desmond ford was kicked out of SDA church and still keeps it, but he doesnt let it get in way of gospel. Our adventist church has plenty of corruption in the higher ranks as many other churches do. Its time to get away from docterines and get close to God, fear God hes not joking. This sabbath debate devides and does not produce any fruit of the spirit.Let me hear you talk about His geace and love for us sinners that dont keep the sabbath perfectly or have perfect thoughts etc.
 

herald

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With all due respect, it isn't about the SDA. Some of their teachings are not Scriptural.The New Testament does not teach abstaining from unclean meats. Adventists don't teach the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, or, divine healing. They have a Catholic form of worship - not, as the Apostle Paul lays out in 1 Corinthians 12. The remnant church are those who are born again and have His Spirit within them. Some of their hospitals practice abortion. So, what is worse? not keeping the Sabbath, or the murder of the innocent? Some in the SDA have a spirit of pride...but, I guess that is true in any denomination. I do not represent the Advntist church, actually, I am a Pentcostal, and according to Mk 16:17,18, I have healed the sick, cast out demons, and raised one man from the dead.I am a Berean: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind, searching the Scriptures, daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11.The fourth commandment is a commandment of God.
 

crooner

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If any one want to know what I am talking about come and visit any one of our SDA churches and you will probably experience the legalistic feeling you will get when you come. A very unexciteable group of people that believe they are the remnant church. Whath how un-excited they are when they worship and speak about there profit Ellen White who really is our pope.Sounds terrible but its the truth. See for your selfs.
 

herald

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Oh, I agree with you. Actually, Ellen White told them not to start hospitals, but only, sanitariums. As one of my friends says, they love to pick and choose what their prophet has said.They demean the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, even though, Jesus said, "And these signs SHALL follow them that believe; In My name SHALL they cast out devils; they SHALL speak with new tongues; they SHALL take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it SHALL not hurt them; they SHALL lay hands on the sick, and they SHALL recover." Mk 16:17,18.Although, I come from an extended family of six doctors and five nurses, Jesus has been my Healer, for almost, forty years. I just claim His promises...He bore our sickness and pain on the tree. Sometimes, it takes minutes, other times, I quote His Word for weeks, but He, always, honors His Word.The Adventists depend, for the most part, on medical healing. Yet, the word in Revelation 9:21;18:23 for sorcery is "pharmakeia," "pharmakeus," and "pharmakon."Through the internet, and the "House to House" movement, God is bringing His people together, across denominational lines.Paul said, "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas (Peter); and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul" 1 Cor 1:12,13.I watch SkyAngel, and my favorite preacher is a Baptist - Dr. Adrian Rogers, who has passed away, but his programs are still on the air. I support the 700 Club's Operation Blessing, and listen to Dr. R.C. Sproul, (Presbyterian), and the Calvary Chapel speakers. We can learn from them all.
 

Jackie D

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okay guys, let's step away from the denomination bashing and back to the word. As Denver has stated in every forum on this board, this is a non-denominational board. I believe that if we are to honor what he has established here we need to do it also by not picking apart the denominations. Let's just know God's word and let Him take care of any who are in error.Carry on and God bless
 

crooner

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I like Rodgers too. The thing about the sabbath it divides. Just ask a SDA and just ask your pastor and see what happens. If the Sabbath is an issue to God He will bring it ti fruition soon. I aggree the sabbath is and should be kept, but it divides instead of bringing together. Its not like the gospel that saves and doesnt divide. I just see no reason to argue it. The argument has been going on forever and both sides are divided. Not putting down denominations just being honest about them.Bible debates have to try to be honest dont they. God bless Not being disrespectful.
 

herald

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I agree with the Forum Moderator, and apologize for any disrespect. Actually, I have a lot of Adventist friends, who do not subscribe to some of their teachings. There are a lot of good Christians in the SDA. But, it just goes to show you, that, every denomination has it's blind spots.The Sabbath does divide, because it is the truth:"For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Heb 4:12.His Word circumcises our hearts, and changes us into His image.This is a difficult subject to post, because a lot of Christians do not want to hear it. When I use the Word of God, it is a double edged sword, and it circumcises my heart, at the same time.