The Five Points of Calvinism

Jane_Doe22 · Feb 6, 2019

farouk said:
I do feel that you are applying a political mindset to God's Word, rather than recognizing that it is not we who 'call the shots', as it were, when God graciously blesses and keeps those whom Christ has bought by His blood at the Cross.

Again, you believe/acknowledge a sheep voluntarily follow their shepherd out of love, please let me know.

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
Again, you believe/acknowledge a sheep voluntarily follow their shepherd out of love, please let me know.

Yes, but Christ causes them to hear and follow; because He keeps them; if they were not His, they would not follow. If true believers have the Spirit of Christ indwelling, they cry 'Abba, Father' (Romans 8.15); if the Spirit does not indwell, they do not.

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

Waiting on him said:
You don’t have to chain sheep but wild mountain goats are a whole other story

I think there's a wild mountain goat lurking in every unregenerate heart!

Jane_Doe22 · Feb 6, 2019

farouk said:
Yes, but Christ causes them to hear and follow; because He keeps them; if they were not His, they would not follow. If true believers have the Spirit of Christ indwelling, they cry 'Abba, Father' (Romans 8.15); if the Spirit does not indwell, they do not.

If the seeing and following is forced, then obviously the sheep is not voluntarily following.

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
If the seeing and following is forced, then obviously the sheep is not voluntarily following.

They hear and follow because they are His, according to the passage you quoted.

CoreIssue · Feb 6, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
So you believe a shepherd drags sheep around with a chain around their neck?

You are obviously not a farm girl are you would know how to lead livestock.

When growing up on a farm if livestock trust you they will follow you willingly.

Bigger herds do require some urging. She farmers his dogs to control sheep.

All trying to drag an animal round on the chain will do is get you hurt or killed.

Dave L · Feb 6, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
If the seeing and following is forced, then obviously the sheep is not voluntarily following.

The sheep are not automatons with lobotomies. If you experience Christ in your heart, there is nothing you want more than all you can get of him. Most have trouble with this because they were never saved in any true sense.

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

CoreIssue said:
When growing up on a farm if livestock trust you they will follow you willingly.

They know and belong to the shepherd, so they follow.

(Sheep are not negotiators with a bunch of politicians who claim to be dispensing 'human rights'. When we read God's Word about the blessings of heaven graciously bestowed, we need a humble mindset to follow and obey.)

CoreIssue · Feb 6, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
God calls all men. Some hear. Some don’t. God is the One who gives the ears. To say God calls all men and some are disobedient children is saying all are children of God some children of God choosing to reject. Yet God says a child of God is born from above and and can not refuse given a new heart, and God chooses when that birth happens. Swing it however you want ...man doesn’t get the credit, God does. It is God’s will be done, not man’s. No flesh gets the glory.

Daniel 5:20-23
[20] But when his heart was lifted up, and his mind hardened in pride, he was deposed from his kingly throne, and they took his glory from him: [21] And he was driven from the sons of men; and his heart was made like the beasts, and his dwelling was with the wild asses: they fed him with grass like oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven; till he knew that the most high God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will. [22] And thou his son, O Belshazzar, hast not humbled thine heart, though thou knewest all this; [23] But hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels of his house before thee, and thou, and thy lords, thy wives, and thy concubines, have drunk wine in them; and thou hast praised the gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know: and the God in whose hand thy breath is , and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified:

He (God)has brought the vessels of His house before you and you have drunk wine in them...and thou praised the temporal things including the flesh and what the flesh can do...which see not, nor hear, nor know...when instead you should have praised and glorified God(Spirit)who gives the ears and eyes to hear and see with, in whose hand thy breath is.

“..the most high God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will.”

Including the children of God whom He appoints over the Kingdom. God chooses.

I've already posted the verses that show Christ invites, we answer or do not answer the call, if we answer he presents us to the father, the father accepts us and then gives us to Christ.

Waiting on him · Feb 6, 2019

farouk said:
Yes, but Christ causes them to hear and follow; because He keeps them; if they were not His, they would not follow. If true believers have the Spirit of Christ indwelling, they cry 'Abba, Father' (Romans 8.15); if the Spirit does not indwell, they do not.

1 Corinthians 12:3 KJV
[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Tecarta BibleMay be a good verse to solidify this

Jane_Doe22 · Feb 6, 2019

farouk said:
They hear and follow because they are His, according to the passage you quoted.

And a shepherd's sheep voluntarily follow him.

farouk said:
They know and belong to the shepherd, so they follow.

Again, voluntarily follow.

Waiting on him · Feb 6, 2019

Waiting on him said:
1 Corinthians 12:3 KJV
[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Tecarta BibleMay be a good verse to solidify this

Clearly states we can’t confess him until the in dwelling of the Holy Ghost?

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
And a shepherd's sheep voluntarily follow him.

Again, voluntarily follow.

Psalm 110.3. 'Thy people shall be willing in the day of Thy power'.

It's by His power than they are willing.

Waiting on him · Feb 6, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
And a shepherd's sheep voluntarily follow him.

Again, voluntarily follow.

The colabor comes after the in dwelling of the Holy Ghost

Jane_Doe22 · Feb 6, 2019

farouk said:
Psalm 110.3. 'Thy people shall be willing in the day of Thy power'.

It's by His power than they are willing.

Waiting on him said:
The colabor comes after the in dwelling of the Holy Ghost

It is amazing to me how you guys keep ignoring that a shepherd's sheep *voluntarily* follow him out of love.
Instead you keep trying to make it about force.

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

Waiting on him said:
The colabor comes after the in dwelling of the Holy Ghost

Exactly. Until there is a work of the Spirit, the person witnessing can talk until blue in the face, as it were. I wish a lot of so called evangelicals would understand this before trying to use their persuasive methods and attribute to their methods so called blessing.

Waiting on him · Feb 6, 2019

farouk said:
Exactly. Until there is a work of the Spirit, the person witnessing can talk until blue in the face, as it were. I wish a lot of so called evangelicals would understand this before trying to use their persuasive methods and attribute to their methods so called blessing.

Says he closes the mouths of lions.i believe

CoreIssue · Feb 6, 2019

Waiting on him said:
Clearly states we can’t confess him until the in dwelling of the Holy Ghost?

In the old days the Lord meant ruler. So you can't call him your ruler unless you submit to him. And when you submit to him you are born again and the Holy Spirit lives in you.

By the way, Holy Ghost is a mistranslation. It is Holy Spirit.

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
It is amazing to me how you guys keep ignoring that a shepherd's sheep *voluntarily* follow him out of love.
Instead you keep trying to make it about force.

I don't think you are taking Psalm 110.3 to heart. Clearly it is God that makes the person willing by His power. Philippians 2.13: ' it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.'

I do concede that what you seem to believe and what I believe by God's grace are vastly different; there is really no agreement.

Waiting on him · Feb 6, 2019

CoreIssue said:
In the old days the Lord meant ruler. So you can't call him your ruler unless you submit to him. And when you submit to him you are born again and the Holy Spirit lives in you.

By the way, Holy Ghost is a mistranslation. It is Holy Spirit.

Either will suffice

The Five Points of Calvinism

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