The Five Points of Calvinism

Dave L · Feb 6, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
It is amazing to me how you guys keep ignoring that a shepherd's sheep *voluntarily* follow him out of love.
Instead you keep trying to make it about force.

If you love Christ, you want to be with him.

Waiting on him · Feb 6, 2019

Dave L said:
If you love Christ, you want to be with him.

If you hate him you want him slaughtered along with his sheep

CoreIssue · Feb 6, 2019

Waiting on him said:
Either will suffice

Accuracy is important.

Too many people tolerate many errors in the KJV.

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

Waiting on him said:
Says he closes the mouths of lions.i believe

I was thinking of the 'methods of persuasion' of so called evangelicals, which sometimes resemble sales pitches more than a presentation of the Sprit-inspired Word, by which God works, with the result that sinners respond to the call of God because of Christ's work.

Dave L · Feb 6, 2019

“And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” (Deuteronomy 30:6) (KJV 1900)

The sheep love God.

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

CoreIssue said:
Accuracy is important.

Too many people tolerate many errors in the KJV.

KJV is time honoured and basically reliable.

VictoryinJesus · Feb 6, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
It is amazing to me how you guys keep ignoring that a shepherd's sheep *voluntarily* follow him out of love.
Instead you keep trying to make it about force.

Force? Or by giving God the praise for being able to lead something man can not do alone. Why does it have to be man’s right to follow? Rather than God’s right to lead? I’m sorry I just don’t understand this constant fight to keep from saying God is all-powerful. Acts 26:14-16 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. [15] And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. [16] But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

Dave L said:
“And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” (Deuteronomy 30:6) (KJV 1900)

The sheep love God.

Well said.

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
Force? Or by giving God the praise for being able to lead something man can not do alone. Why does it have to be man’s right to follow? Rather than God’s right to lead? I’m sorry I just don’t understand this constant fight to keep from saying God is all-powerful. Acts 26:14-16 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. [15] And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. [16] But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

It's all indeed a work of our loving, gracious God.

CoreIssue · Feb 6, 2019

farouk said:
KJV is time honoured and basically reliable.

I hope you realize there were Bibles time-honored and used much longer than the KJV.

Why go for basically when you can have better?

Waiting on him · Feb 6, 2019

farouk said:
I was thinking of the 'methods of persuasion' of so called evangelicals, which sometimes resemble sales pitches more than a presentation of the Sprit-inspired Word, by which God works, with the result that sinners respond to the call of God because of Christ's work.

I was presented a tract this morning wanted to know if I was ready to receive Jesus. Told him that’s up to God!

Jane_Doe22 · Feb 6, 2019

farouk said:
I don't think you are taking Psalm 110.3 to heart. Clearly it is God that makes the person willing by His power. Philippians 2.13: ' it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.'

I do concede that what you seem to believe and what I believe by God's grace are vastly different; there is really no agreement.

I completely believe Psalm 110.3 and Philippians 2.13. God uses His Holy Spirit to testify *every single* person (not just some) and those that *accept* that witness *voluntarily* follow the Good Shepard as His sheep. And through these servant He does wonders.

Perfect harmonizing of all these scriptures.

CoreIssue · Feb 6, 2019

Waiting on him said:
I was presented a tract this morning wanted to know if I was ready to receive Jesus. Told him that’s up to God!

But you still have to ask to find out if he accepts you are not.

Jane_Doe22 · Feb 6, 2019

Dave L said:
If you love Christ, you want to be with him.

Love must be voluntarily given. Affection that is forced is abuse, not real love.

Dave L said:
“And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” (Deuteronomy 30:6) (KJV 1900)

The sheep love God.

Love and following that is voluntarily given.

Dave L · Feb 6, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
Love must be voluntarily given. Affection that is forced is abuse, not real love.

Love and following that is voluntarily given.

“And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” (Deuteronomy 30:6) (KJV 1900)

People naturally hate God and love idols bearing his name. So God gives us a new heart of love for him, for which we are eternally grateful.

Jane_Doe22 · Feb 6, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
Force? Or by giving God the praise for being able to lead something man can not do alone. Why does it have to be man’s right to follow? Rather than God’s right to lead? I’m sorry I just don’t understand this constant fight to keep from saying God is all-powerful. Acts 26:14-16 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. [15] And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. [16] But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

Because this question ultiamately comes down to the nature of God.

Yes, God is all powerful. But He is also all loving. Real love is given voluntarily. Real sheep voluntarily follow a real shepherd. And God offers that love and gift to ALL men.

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
I completely believe Psalm 110.3 and Philippians 2.13. God uses His Holy Spirit to testify *every single* person (not just some) and those that *accept* that witness *voluntarily* follow the Good Shepard as His sheep. And through these servant He does wonders.

Perfect harmonizing of all these scriptures.

Well I'm glad that you can be blessed by those Scriptures.

Waiting on him · Feb 6, 2019

CoreIssue said:
But you still have to ask to find out if he accepts you are not.

Dave L said:
“And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” (Deuteronomy 30:6) (KJV 1900)

People naturally hate God and love idols bearing his name. So God gives us a new heart of love for him, for which we are eternally grateful.

kinda like he leads us captive out of captivity. I believe many are unaware of their captivity

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

Waiting on him said:
I was presented a tract this morning wanted to know if I was ready to receive Jesus. Told him that’s up to God!

Well, I do commend the zeal of the Christian literature distributor; I do question however some of the wording of some commonly distributed evangelistic literature.

Waiting on him · Feb 6, 2019

CoreIssue said:
But you still have to ask to find out if he accepts you are not.

This thing implies it’s something I can perform at carnal will

farouk · Feb 6, 2019

Waiting on him said:
kinda like he leads us captive out of captivity. I believe many are unaware of their captivity

Yes; the bondage of being dead in sin and unbelief - as Ephesians 2 points out - must be spiritually discerned through God's grace.

CoreIssue · Feb 6, 2019

Waiting on him said:
This thing implies it’s something I can perform at carnal will

No, it means you are a person with a soul, meaning a total person consisting of flesh, mind and spirit.

So your spirit acts through your mind and communicates through your flesh.

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