The Five Points of Calvinism

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Mjh29

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You're saying God glories in suffering? That he is one massive egotist?

So what are you going to do if one day you wake up in Hell.

No, I am saying that everything that happens brings God maximum glory. Are you saying it doesn't? Then why does it happen? Do God have control over his creation? To be honest, can you give me a just reason why God does not deserve to be an egotist?

e·go·tist
  • 1.a person who is excessively conceited or self-absorbed; self-seeker
For any human, this trait is abominable, but for God, who is perfect and holy without spot, and is the only perfect being or thing in exsistence... why would you focus on anything else? The scriptures state that this is his universe, created for his pleasure, that is controlled and sustained by Him. Why does God not have the right to be self- absorbed; is the Gospel message not all about how wonderful He is? Do the angels not constantly praie his excellent name? Did He not tell Moses that He was more concerned about his name than man could ever be?
 
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Mjh29

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Where does it say Adam dammed his whole race to hell?

He stuck us with sin nature for sure, but that is far different from condemning everyone to hell unless God chooses to spare them.

Where does it say in free will they gave themselves to Satan?

His patients and long-suffering for a what reason?

1.) quoted a plethora of verses the last time you asked, but what's one more?
~ Rom 5:12

2.) again..... plethora of verses.

3.) Because He wants to be patient. What other reason does He need?
 
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VictoryinJesus

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God's decree is eternal, never having a beginning or end.

1)Matthew 13:40
[40] As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Ephesians 3:21
[21] Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Revelation 13:8
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

...the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (without end).
 

CoreIssue

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No, I am saying that everything that happens brings God maximum glory. Are you saying it doesn't? Then why does it happen? Do God have control over his creation? To be honest, can you give me a just reason why God does not deserve to be an egotist?

e·go·tist
  • 1.a person who is excessively conceited or self-absorbed; self-seeker
For any human, this trait is abominable, but for God, who is perfect and holy without spot, and is the only perfect being or thing in exsistence... why would you focus on anything else? The scriptures state that this is his universe, created for his pleasure, that is controlled and sustained by Him. Why does God not have the right to be self- absorbed; is the Gospel message not all about how wonderful He is? Do the angels not constantly praie his excellent name? Did He not tell Moses that He was more concerned about his name than man could ever be?

The definition you posted fits your God 100%.
1.) quoted a plethora of verses the last time you asked, but what's one more?
~ Rom 5:12

2.) again..... plethora of verses.

3.) Because He wants to be patient. What other reason does He need?

I never asked before.

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

That does not defend Calvinism.

Sin nature entered through Adam. All have sinned and to remain in sin is spiritual death.

Now try reading the rest of Romans 5.

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
 

marks

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In God's relentless pursuit of Glory . . . Now is the hour for the Son of Man to be glorified . . . it was time for Jesus to go to the cross to purchase our salvation.

Jesus found His glory in rescuing us!

Much love!
 

marks

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1)Matthew 13:40


Revelation 13:8
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?

Or . . .

Revelation 17:8
8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.


Much love!
Mark
 

Waiting on him

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1)Matthew 13:40
[40] As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Ephesians 3:21
[21] Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Revelation 13:8
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

...the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (without end).
That’s very searching!
 
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Waiting on him

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Wow, that is quite the rewrite.
Sorry not a rewrite. I never gave my opinion of the question I asked; did Peter receive salvation prior to Pentecost? IMO there is no evidence of a rebirth in any of the disciples prior to Pentecost. But when Jesus chose to send the Holy Spirit they received and immediately walked in newness of life born of God.
 
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marks

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Sorry not a rewrite. I never gave my opinion of the question I asked; did Peter receive salvation prior to Pentecost? IMO there is no evidence of a rebirth in any of the disciples prior to Pentecost. But when Jesus chose to send the Holy Spirit they received and immediately walked in newness of life born of God.

There is the place in John 21 where Jesus breathed on them, saying "receive ye the Holy Spirit".

I've thought of that being when these particular men were born again, but I don't see where the Scripture specifically states when they were born again. They certainly received a power on Pentecost that they didn't have before!

much love!
mark
 

Waiting on him

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There is the place in John 21 where Jesus breathed on them, saying "receive ye the Holy Spirit".

I've thought of that being when these particular men were born again, but I don't see where the Scripture specifically states when they were born again. They certainly received a power on Pentecost that they didn't have before!

much love!
mark
They walk in newness. Emboldened praying and walking in the spirit, and it never withdraws. This is new( fruit) before Pentecost their like all Old Testament saints the spirit comes and goes. This is why Jesus continually rein fuses them with Him, IMO. This seems obvious to me, but I’ve been wrong many times
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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"marks,


Hi Anthony,
[So that the verse could be saying that Jesus was slain since the foundation of the world, however, that seems to me to conflict with the clear teaching that Jesus died here on planet earth once for all.]
Of course, He died here on the planet. So it takes a bit of thought and looking through the bible to understand what is meant by the statement.
[There is also the matter that Jesus gained His physical human body within which He could die when He was incarnated, not before, so, how could He die before the creation?]
The physical death did not happen before the cross.The plan of Him dying a Covenant death was in view, as Jesus was already in place as Mediator.

[Also, if God considered Mankind as fallen before creation, since we're talking about the death and depravity of sin, how was it that God, even after creating man, declared everything good?]
God knows the end from the beginning. Sin, death and the fall did not surprise God.

God has an eternal plan that he has made known to the Church Eph. 3:9-11
God had a plan in place and creation would not have happened if he did not have a perfect plan, which he did, the incarnation and the cross.
So Gen 1:31 was quite accurate, everything WAS good. Man sinned and rebelled;
eccl7
29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.



[Wouldn't this make God calling evil good? That doesn't make sense to me.]
It should not make sense because you are drifting from the truth.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Period 1: From the Fall to the Incarnation – by Jonathan Edwards | A Puritan's Mind

PART I.

FROM THE FALL TO THE FLOOD

though this period was the most distant from Christ’s incarnation; yet then was this glorious building begun.

I. As soon as man fell, Christ entered on his mediatorial work. Then it was that he began to execute the work and office of a mediator. He had undertaken it before the world was made. He stood engaged with the Father to appear as man’s mediator, and to take on that office when there should be occasion, from all eternity. But now the time was come. Christ the eternal Son of God clothed himself with the mediatorial character, and therein presented himself before the Father. He immediately stepped in between a holy, infinite, offended Majesty, and offending mankind. He was accepted in his interposition; and so wrath was prevented from going forth in the full execution of that amazing curse that man had brought on himself.

It is manifest that Christ began to exercise the office of mediator between God and man as soon as ever man fell, because mercy began to he exercised towards man immediately

There was mercy in the forbearance of God, that he did not destroy him, as he did the angels when they fell.
But there is no mercy exercised toward fallen man but through a mediator. If God had not in mercy restrained Satan, he would immediately have seized on his prey. Christ began to do the part of an intercessor for man as soon as he fell; for there is no mercy exercised towards man but what is obtained through Christ’s intercession. From that day Christ took on him the care of the church, in the exercise of all his offices. He undertook to teach mankind in the exercise of his prophetical office; to intercede for fallen man in his priestly office; and to govern the church and the world as a king. He from that time took upon him the care of defending his elect church from all their enemies. When Satan, the grand enemy, had conquered and overthrown man, the business of resisting and conquering him was committed to Christ. He thenceforward undertook to manage that subtle powerful adversary. He was then appointed the Captain of the Lord’s hosts, the Captain of their salvation. Henceforward this lower world, with all its concerns, devolved upon the Son of God: for when man had sinned,

God the Father would have no more to do immediately with this world of mankind, that had apostatized from and rebelled against him. He would henceforward act only through a mediator, either in teaching men, or in governing, or bestowing any benefits on them.

And therefore, when we read in sacred history what God did, from time to time, towards his church and people, and how he revealed himself to them, we are to understand it especially of the second person of the Trinity. When we read of God appearing after the fall, in some visible form or outward symbol of his presence, we are ordinarily, if not universally, to understand it of the second person of the Trinity. John i. 18. “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” He is therefore called “the image of the invisible God,” Col. i. 15. intimating, that though God the Father be invisible, yet Christ is his image or representation, by which he is seen.

This revelation of the gospel was the first thing that Christ did in his prophetical office. From the fall of man to the incarnation of Christ, God was doing those things that were preparatory to Christ’s coming to effect redemption, and were forerunners and earnests of it. And one of those things was to foretell and promise it, as he did from age to age, till Christ came. This was the first promise given, the first prediction that ever was made of it.
 
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CoreIssue

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Period 1: From the Fall to the Incarnation – by Jonathan Edwards | A Puritan's Mind

PART I.

FROM THE FALL TO THE FLOOD

though this period was the most distant from Christ’s incarnation; yet then was this glorious building begun.

I. As soon as man fell, Christ entered on his mediatorial work. Then it was that he began to execute the work and office of a mediator. He had undertaken it before the world was made. He stood engaged with the Father to appear as man’s mediator, and to take on that office when there should be occasion, from all eternity. But now the time was come. Christ the eternal Son of God clothed himself with the mediatorial character, and therein presented himself before the Father. He immediately stepped in between a holy, infinite, offended Majesty, and offending mankind. He was accepted in his interposition; and so wrath was prevented from going forth in the full execution of that amazing curse that man had brought on himself.

It is manifest that Christ began to exercise the office of mediator between God and man as soon as ever man fell, because mercy began to he exercised towards man immediately

There was mercy in the forbearance of God, that he did not destroy him, as he did the angels when they fell.
But there is no mercy exercised toward fallen man but through a mediator. If God had not in mercy restrained Satan, he would immediately have seized on his prey. Christ began to do the part of an intercessor for man as soon as he fell; for there is no mercy exercised towards man but what is obtained through Christ’s intercession. From that day Christ took on him the care of the church, in the exercise of all his offices. He undertook to teach mankind in the exercise of his prophetical office; to intercede for fallen man in his priestly office; and to govern the church and the world as a king. He from that time took upon him the care of defending his elect church from all their enemies. When Satan, the grand enemy, had conquered and overthrown man, the business of resisting and conquering him was committed to Christ. He thenceforward undertook to manage that subtle powerful adversary. He was then appointed the Captain of the Lord’s hosts, the Captain of their salvation. Henceforward this lower world, with all its concerns, devolved upon the Son of God: for when man had sinned,

God the Father would have no more to do immediately with this world of mankind, that had apostatized from and rebelled against him. He would henceforward act only through a mediator, either in teaching men, or in governing, or bestowing any benefits on them.

And therefore, when we read in sacred history what God did, from time to time, towards his church and people, and how he revealed himself to them, we are to understand it especially of the second person of the Trinity. When we read of God appearing after the fall, in some visible form or outward symbol of his presence, we are ordinarily, if not universally, to understand it of the second person of the Trinity. John i. 18. “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” He is therefore called “the image of the invisible God,” Col. i. 15. intimating, that though God the Father be invisible, yet Christ is his image or representation, by which he is seen.

Jesus Christ did not exist until the incarnation.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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The definition you posted fits your God 100%.


I never asked before.

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

That does not defend Calvinism.

Sin nature entered through Adam. All have sinned and to remain in sin is spiritual death.

Now try reading the rest of Romans 5.

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
Another sadly unbiblical post.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Jesus Christ did not exist until the incarnation.
That is blasphemous as Jesus is Eternal God...God always existed. No wonder you are so confused.
learn from the 1689 confession of faith:
Chapter 2: Of God and of the Holy Trinity
1._____The Lord our God is but one only living and true God; whose subsistence is in and of himself, infinite in being and perfection; whose essence cannot be comprehended by any but himself; a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; who is immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, every way infinite, most holy, most wise, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will for his own glory; most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek him, and withal most just and terrible in his judgments, hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.
( 1 Corinthians 8:4, 6; Deuteronomy 6:4; Jeremiah 10:10; Isaiah 48:12; Exodus 3:14; John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17; Deuteronomy 4:15, 16; Malachi 3:6; 1 Kings 8:27; Jeremiah 23:23; Psalms 90:2; Genesis 17:1; Isaiah 6:3; Psalms 115:3; Isaiah 46:10; Proverbs 16:4; Romans 11:36; Exodus 34:6, 7; Hebrews 11:6; Nehemiah 9:32, 33; Psalms 5:5, 6; Exodus 34:7; Nahum 1:2, 3 )
2._____God, having all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of himself, is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creature which he hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them; he is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things, and he hath most sovereign dominion over all creatures, to do by them, for them, or upon them, whatsoever himself pleaseth; in his sight all things are open and manifest, his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature, so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain; he is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands; to him is due from angels and men, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience, as creatures they owe unto the Creator, and whatever he is further pleased to require of them.
( John 5:26; Psalms 148:13; Psalms 119:68; Job 22:2, 3; Romans 11:34-36; Daniel 4:25, 34, 35; Hebrews 4:13; Ezekiel 11:5; Acts 15:18; Psalms 145:17; Revelation 5:12-14 )

3._____ In this divine and infinite Being there are three subsistences, the Father, the Word or Son, and Holy Spirit, of one substance, power, and eternity, each having the whole divine essence, yet the essence undivided: the Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son; all infinite, without beginning, therefore but one God, who is not to be divided in nature and being, but distinguished by several peculiar relative properties and personal relations; which doctrine of the Trinity is the foundation of all our communion with God, and comfortable dependence on him.
( 1 John 5:7; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Exodus 3:14; John 14:11; 1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:14,18; John 15:26; Galatians 4:6 )
 

CoreIssue

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That is blasphemous as Jesus is Eternal God...God always existed. No wonder you are so confused.
learn from the 1689 confession of faith:
Chapter 2: Of God and of the Holy Trinity
1._____The Lord our God is but one only living and true God; whose subsistence is in and of himself, infinite in being and perfection; whose essence cannot be comprehended by any but himself; a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; who is immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, every way infinite, most holy, most wise, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will for his own glory; most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek him, and withal most just and terrible in his judgments, hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.
( 1 Corinthians 8:4, 6; Deuteronomy 6:4; Jeremiah 10:10; Isaiah 48:12; Exodus 3:14; John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17; Deuteronomy 4:15, 16; Malachi 3:6; 1 Kings 8:27; Jeremiah 23:23; Psalms 90:2; Genesis 17:1; Isaiah 6:3; Psalms 115:3; Isaiah 46:10; Proverbs 16:4; Romans 11:36; Exodus 34:6, 7; Hebrews 11:6; Nehemiah 9:32, 33; Psalms 5:5, 6; Exodus 34:7; Nahum 1:2, 3 )
2._____God, having all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of himself, is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creature which he hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them; he is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things, and he hath most sovereign dominion over all creatures, to do by them, for them, or upon them, whatsoever himself pleaseth; in his sight all things are open and manifest, his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature, so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain; he is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands; to him is due from angels and men, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience, as creatures they owe unto the Creator, and whatever he is further pleased to require of them.
( John 5:26; Psalms 148:13; Psalms 119:68; Job 22:2, 3; Romans 11:34-36; Daniel 4:25, 34, 35; Hebrews 4:13; Ezekiel 11:5; Acts 15:18; Psalms 145:17; Revelation 5:12-14 )

3._____ In this divine and infinite Being there are three subsistences, the Father, the Word or Son, and Holy Spirit, of one substance, power, and eternity, each having the whole divine essence, yet the essence undivided: the Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son; all infinite, without beginning, therefore but one God, who is not to be divided in nature and being, but distinguished by several peculiar relative properties and personal relations; which doctrine of the Trinity is the foundation of all our communion with God, and comfortable dependence on him.
( 1 John 5:7; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Exodus 3:14; John 14:11; 1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:14,18; John 15:26; Galatians 4:6 )

Jesus Christ is the flesh that the second person and well at the incarnation.

Read John 1. It says the Word not word became flesh, not was eternal flesh.

This accusation coming from me man in the Calvinism cult.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Jesus Christ is the flesh that the second person and well at the incarnation.

Read John 1. It says the Word not word became flesh, not was eternal flesh.

This accusation coming from me man in the Calvinism cult.
Could you try and form a coherent thought???:rolleyes::eek:
Notice he does not address the confession of faith as he cannot.:(
 

Carl

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Wrong question. Why did God make salvation available by free will. Answer: love and justice.

He loves his creation and is responsible for it.

He loves all the angels created. But that won't stop him from tossing the angels who rebel late for eternity out of justice.

Calvinism does not see a loving God. They see a self absorbed God.
Where are you getting the notion that Calvinist do not see God as loving ? A contrary they do see him as a lovingly God.
 
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Carl

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1 Cor 15 is addressed to Christians and is focused on Christ and the resurrection of the saints. It has nothing to say about those who are not saved. The ones who are not saved choose to disregard the Gospel.

Who are the ones in Christ ?