In The Name of Religions

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RichardBurger

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In The Name of Religions;MOST religions have a history of repression, hate, and murder. Everywhere that you find religious people running, or influencing, the civil government you find repression, hate, and murder. There are so many examples of this that it cannot be denied.1. The Jewish clerics that had Jesus crucified by the civil government (the Romans).2. The stoning of both Paul and Stephens by the Jews.3. The Roman Empire persecuting the Christians before Christianity became the official religion of the state.4. The RCC prosecuting those they considered heretics5. The Roman Catholic Church inquisitions and murder by having peopled burned at the stake."In the name of religion” the Catholics held Inquisitions and charged people with heresy (those that had other opinions about God than the RCC view). They then turned them over to the civil government to be burned at the stake. Christians went from being oppressed to oppressing others. By the way, Jesus was considered to be a heretic by the Pharisees and was turned over to the civil government [the Romans] to be crucified.6. The essential rule of John Calvin as the theocratic ruler of Geneva (the city of God).Under Calvin, Catholicism was banned as heresy and punishable by death. Adultery, blasphemy, idolatry, and witchcraft were all punishable by death. Calvin had people with different understandings of the scriptures burned at the stake.7. Under the influence of Ulrich Zwingli the secular government executed the Anabaptists.8. The murder, by many Muslims, that have others killed in the name of religion.9. The hanging of those who were accused of witchcraft in Salem during the "witch hunts."The list could go on but these are enough. Why do these things happen? It is because of those that wish to ""impose"" their religious beliefs on others; to control what others believe. One of the reasons we have Protestant Churches today is because of those European Governments that had a king strong enough to oppose the RCC, and it's influence over governments, at that time.It seems to me that most people of the world have always made up a religion that would explain their existence and relationship to a god that they think exists. Many come up with religious rules to bind other people under and control them.As far back as we can see by archaeology and written history we find that man developed religions. They were made up of what men reasoned in their minds god was/is. Man made god according to his own imagination.Most made up a religion that required men to do things in order to appease the god they thought they saw. In lands where there are volcanoes they saw an angry god that needed men to do things to satisfy him. This is true of the Egyptians and the Greeks. In a lot of these religions men reasoned that their god required sacrifices of some kind. Some even thought that their god required human sacrifices. Most all used their religions to oppress and foster wars against others.Jesus was absolutely correct when He said; "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit." If the god of religions require men to persecute and kill others for him, and to impose their religious beliefs on others for him, then that god is "to small" and the hearts of those that worship that god and contemplate killing others is "to small." God does not need men to kill and oppress others for Him. As for me I judge the tree (religions) by the fruit they produce, good or evil.Scripture:Micah 6:6-86 With what shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the High God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old?7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?8 He has shown you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?(NKJ)John 16:2-32 They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God.3 They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me.(NIV)Acts 7:48-5248 "However, the Most High does not live in houses made by men. As the prophet says:49 "'Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be?50 Has not my hand made all these things?'51 "You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!52 Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him--(NIV)Heb 10:5-105 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased.7 Then I said, 'Here I am-- it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'"8 First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made).9 Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second.10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.(NIV)Jesus said:Matt 7:15-2015 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.16 "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.(NKJ)Copyright, 2000, by Richard Burger
 

Jackie D

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pretty good article Richard. But I fear you have left out one very important player in the game of oppress and kill. Let's not leave out those who call themselves Christian.There is a whole list of oppressiveness leading to spirit/soul death that goes on among Christians today, even those of their own denomination or non-demonination. Then there is the Christian or group of Christians who feel they have somehow earned the right to qualify or dis-qualify another as pastor/minister/deacon what have you, for a sin a family member committed. The elder of the churches obtain an attitude of superiority and thinking that they can speak for God regardging these matters. As if somehow they have found themselves sitting at the right hand of Christ. In turn putting one out of the "church" or demoting them from their positions, humiliating the one put out or demoted. Christ did and said a lot of things while He walked, but I can tell you that He would have treated them as He did the woman caught in adultry that was going to be stoned....and she was the one who committed the act. He didn't let her accusers kill her, by pointing out their own sins by the breaking of the law in one way or another. Hmmmm, do we have scribes and pharisees, teachers of the "law" among the Christian? We have the judging Christians who go from forum to forum casting aspersions on everyone because they hate themselves and somehow find peace by harshly judging others.We have the intellectual who oppresses and tries to shut the mouths of those who aren't quite as learned as they believe themselves to be. We have the tolerant, the pro-abortion, the accepter of homosexuality in the churches, homosexual marriages and church leaders...I could go on and on and on....but what would be the sense?Something else that I would like to mention here. People are people are people. And people follow blindly along with other people who are being led around by the nose and who's holding onto their nose? Another being led.....If we took religions, people, money, lust, drugs, sex, and a whole slew of other things that take the eyes off of the Lord, we would find on the other side, the harlot and spirit of antichrist. It all boils down to the war that is never ending util His return and satan being cast into the pit forever. blessings
 

Gareth

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There is a difference between religious abuse and religion itself. Just because a religion (Christianity) is abused, doesn't mean it is no longer a religion, what kind of logic is that?
 

Jordan

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There is a difference between religious abuse and religion itself. Just because a religion (Christianity) is abused, doesn't mean it is no longer a religion, what kind of logic is that?
In a way that's true, but there is a difference a religion and reality.
 

Jackie D

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(Gareth;51489)
There is a difference between religious abuse and religion itself. Just because a religion (Christianity) is abused, doesn't mean it is no longer a religion, what kind of logic is that?
first of all any "religion" is made up of a body of people. People are the religion, not the other way around. Christ is not a religion. Christ is the Lord! The religions that I know of put themselves above the law of their religion by causing harm to others, oftentimes deadly harm be it physical or spirit/soul, including Christianity. If there were no religions none would abuse them and make them ugly for people. Religion is man made, all of it.
 

Gareth

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(Jackie D;51493)
first of all any "religion" is made up of a body of people. People are the religion, not the other way around. Christ is not a religion. Christ is the Lord! The religions that I know of put themselves above the law of their religion by causing harm to others, oftentimes deadly harm be it physical or spirit/soul, including Christianity. If there were no religions none would abuse them and make them ugly for people. Religion is man made, all of it.
In your opinion it is man made, I will however agree with a pastor-in-training who was at my church. Religion is the relationship between man and God. That's what I also believe, and it's very much a reality. It's saddening to see so many people deny this over a modern phenomenon, that Christianity is infact not a religion.
 

Jackie D

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(Gareth;51495)
In your opinion it is man made, I will however agree with a pastor-in-training who was at my church. Religion is the relationship between man and God. That's what I also believe, and it's very much a reality. It's saddening to see so many people deny this over a modern phenomenon, that Christianity is infact not a religion.
why do you think that is Gareth? Why have SO MANY come to this conclusion? What is sad to me is to see the gospel of Christ and where He stood regarding "religion" and that still today many wish to keep their religion alive when the only thing that remains IS Christ. How can a man have religion and have a relationship? Most religion is made into a god itself. We cannot serve God and a god. A house divided will not stand.If man must have religion then the religion they should have is to take care of the poor, feed the hungry, house the widow, have compassion on the sinner, thank God for everything that is and that isn't, remain faithful first to God and the rest will follow. THIS should be the religion of Christians, but it is not (for many) which in itself is a phenomenon that extends from the time before Christ's reign!
 

RichardBurger

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why do you think that is Gareth? Why have SO MANY come to this conclusion? What is sad to me is to see the gospel of Christ and where He stood regarding "religion" and that still today many wish to keep their religion alive when the only thing that remains IS Christ. How can a man have religion and have a relationship? Most religion is made into a god itself. We cannot serve God and a god. A house divided will not stand.If man must have religion then the religion they should have is to take care of the poor, feed the hungry, house the widow, have compassion on the sinner, thank God for everything that is and that isn't, remain faithful first to God and the rest will follow. THIS should be the religion of Christians, but it is not (for many) which in itself is a phenomenon that extends from the time before Christ's reign!
IMHO, most do not have a relationship with God in their hearts. Their only relationship is with their religion. Religion has taken the place of God just as it did in the days that Jesus walked the earth.But to be fair, I also have to say their are some in the churches that DO have a relationship with God. It is these that do not place value in religion.Richard
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Jackie D

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(RichardBurger;51503)
IMHO, most do not have a relationship with God in their hearts. Their only relationship is with their religion. Religion has taken the place of God just as it did in the days that Jesus walked the earth.But to be fair, I also have to say their are some in the churches that DO have a relationship with God. It is these that do not place value in religion.Richard
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I believe I did clarify that, but if I didn't my apologies. I do not believe that it is all bad. It is too bad that we see it so much though. But what can we expect, the population is greater and technology allows for much more of it to be witnessed....come Lord come.
 

Gareth

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why do you think that is Gareth? Why have SO MANY come to this conclusion?
It's a minority of global Christians, but still I think it is due to a will to distance themselves from the abuse of religion. However it is possible to do that without saying Christianity is not a religion.Even in the 1100's Christians in Europe distanced themselves from the acts of the Crusades. However they did not deny their religion and neither should we.(Jackie D)
What is sad to me is to see the gospel of Christ and where He stood regarding "religion" and that still today many wish to keep their religion alive when the only thing that remains IS Christ.
He didn't denounce religion at all, he denounced Rabbinical Judaism. There is a difference. James proposed a different form of religion, but did not say that it wasn't one in his epistle.
 

Gareth

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IMHO, most do not have a relationship with God in their hearts. Their only relationship is with their religion. Religion has taken the place of God just as it did in the days that Jesus walked the earth.But to be fair, I also have to say their are some in the churches that DO have a relationship with God. It is these that do not place value in religion.Richard
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I disagree with you. The mainline churches no matter what you have said here have actually helped myself and many other people establish a relationship with Jesus.Through the Church I meet with other likeminded people (Christians) and we share the Gospel, and celebrate the Eucharist.(RichardBurger)
One of the reasons we have Protestant Churches today is because of those European Governments that had a king strong enough to oppose the RCC, and it's influence over governments, at that time.
That's not true. The Reformation in England was taking place before Henry VIII, he was merely the figure with the power to enable it to happen. Also, it was due to the Bible not being accessible to people in their own language. Watch this video of the Anglican Reformation if you want to know what really happened:http://worldagenda.net/forum/vbtube_show.p...=tube&tubeid=13
 

RichardBurger

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I disagree with you. The mainline churches no matter what you have said here have actually helped myself and many other people establish a relationship with Jesus.Through the Church I meet with other likeminded people (Christians) and we share the Gospel, and celebrate the Eucharist.That's not true. The Reformation in England was taking place before Henry VIII, he was merely the figure with the power to enable it to happen. Also, it was due to the Bible not being accessible to people in their own language. Watch this video of the Anglican Reformation if you want to know what really happened:http://worldagenda.net/forum/vbtube_show.p...=tube&tubeid=13
Writings by Catholic writers usually support Catholic dogma don't they?What happened to those people that translated the scriptures, put them in the common language, and printed them? I bet the RCC was just so happy they gave them a medal.Richard
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Jackie D

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Gareth said:
"Rabbinical Judaism"
don't you mean religion?
It's a minority of global Christians, but still I think it is due to a will to distance themselves from the abuse of religion. However it is possible to do that without saying Christianity is not a religion.
and what do non-believers, Muslims, Budhists and the other slew of religious groups call Christianity? How many Christians added up with the rest of the world say that to them it is also a religion? And if it is supposed to be a religion as man has defined the word, what do you think we should call ourselves? Can you honestly tell me that you believe that Christ wanted you to turn Him into "religion"?
 

Gareth

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Gareth said:don't you mean religion?and what do non-believers, Muslims, Budhists and the other slew of religious groups call Christianity? How many Christians added up with the rest of the world say that to them it is also a religion? And if it is supposed to be a religion as man has defined the word, what do you think we should call ourselves? Can you honestly tell me that you believe that Christ wanted you to turn Him into "religion"?
I didn't turn him into a religion, religion is clearly what is being discussed here. My definition of religion is a relationship with God. You can make up what religion is but for me that is what it is.As for Rabbinical Judaism, that is what Jesus argued against. However I won't stop you trying to extend Jesus' condemnation of the hypocrisy of Pharasaic Judaism and strict adherence to the Law of Moses (Rabbinical Judaism) to all religion.
 

Gareth

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Writings by Catholic writers usually support Catholic dogma don't they?What happened to those people that translated the scriptures, put them in the common language, and printed them? I bet the RCC was just so happy they gave them a medal.Richard
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Why do you keep referring to Catholicism? I didn't mention it at all.I personally believe the RCC went to apostasy, and that God called the Reformers to bring the Church back to it's roots. Many would disagree with me. However when the Church which claims to have succession from Peter contradicts what Peter actually said in Acts 8 on the sale of indulgences, there is big trouble.
 

Jackie D

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I didn't turn him into a religion, religion is clearly what is being discussed here. My definition of religion is a relationship with God. You can make up what religion is but for me that is what it is.
And I am arguing that religion does not equal a relationship with God or anyone else.I can be married for many years get up every morning with my husband make his lunch, serve him coffe and send him off to work daily that way and all it is is a religious act...an act of habit does not equal love or relationship.
As for Rabbinical Judaism, that is what Jesus argued against. However I won't stop you trying to extend Jesus' condemnation of the hypocrisy of Pharasaic Judaism and strict adherence to the Law of Moses (Rabbinical Judaism) to all religion.
there IS hypocrisy in ALL religion. Hypocrisy is an earmark of man, regardless of how pious or unflawed they may see themselves.
 

Gareth

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there IS hypocrisy in ALL religion. Hypocrisy is an earmark of man, regardless of how pious or unflawed they may see themselves.
There is hypocrisy involved in the corruption of religion, not religion itself.Personally I only see this as an attempt to elevate oneself over other Christians. I have no problem with non-denominational / Evangelical Christians as long as they tolerate other Christian Churches.
 

Jackie D

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Personally I only see this as an attempt to elevate oneself over other Christians.
not once Gareth have I said anything that should give you the impression that I find myself above or "elevated" above other Christians.There really is no need to be rude because someone disagrees with you.be blessed
 

Gareth

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not once Gareth have I said anything that should give you the impression that I find myself above or "elevated" above other Christians.There really is no need to be rude because someone disagrees with you.be blessed
It's not being rude it's the exact sentiment that is expressed about traditional Christians in this thread.RichardBurger even suggested in his quotation of Matthew 7 in the original post, that those who practise Christianity in a traditional Church are "false prophets". Well I happen to think that is not the right way to approach it at all.I understand that this is a non-denominational forum, but what I don't understand is this need that is emerging to attack your Christian brothers and sisters in other churches.