Always wondered this. Seems to me to be the same thing, but pretty much no one agrees with me. I want to study it a little, so some different views from different people will give me a starting point, a point of reference. My own view might be skewed all by itself.
Does OT Isreal = NT Church?
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Well thats a question that covers most the bible
The short answer is God chose out a people, We call them Hebrews(Jews)The bible covers theit trials and tribulations These are all lessons to usmany of things taught to them by God was a type's or forerunner of Christ or things to come. These people were saved from out of Eygpt,given the Laws, given the promised land of Israel, When Christ came this group(jews) was split and salvation opened to All. These two groups we now call Jews and Christians. Christians believe in Christ as Messiah, Jews accept jesus as only a prophet and are still waiting for thier Messiah,Both have the same God the same law the same patriarchs, And both will come under Christ at the End. So are they the same yes and no but the christian roots are in Judisimthe Christian would not exisit without the people God choose out.
The short answer is God chose out a people, We call them Hebrews(Jews)The bible covers theit trials and tribulations These are all lessons to usmany of things taught to them by God was a type's or forerunner of Christ or things to come. These people were saved from out of Eygpt,given the Laws, given the promised land of Israel, When Christ came this group(jews) was split and salvation opened to All. These two groups we now call Jews and Christians. Christians believe in Christ as Messiah, Jews accept jesus as only a prophet and are still waiting for thier Messiah,Both have the same God the same law the same patriarchs, And both will come under Christ at the End. So are they the same yes and no but the christian roots are in Judisimthe Christian would not exisit without the people God choose out.Paul explains this in Romans, when he says the Gentile converts will be added to the tree of Israel, with the Jewry.
I'd say most importantly it involves understanding what happened to the 10 so-called "lost" tribes of Israel. Modern day Israel (the nation) is but one house - that of Judah. I don't think people understand what God said when he proclaimed that Abraham's descendants would be as numerous as the stars in the sky and the sand in the sea.To answer your question, yes, the modern day church is mostly descended from the tribes of Israel. It's not even aware of it in many cases because we've had our history rewritten, but the clues are there.
(beforHim;51748)
Always wondered this. Seems to me to be the same thing, but pretty much no one agrees with me. I want to study it a little, so some different views from different people will give me a starting point, a point of reference. My own view might be skewed all by itself.
One passage I would say to definitely put on your study list is Eph 2:11-22.Romans 9-11 (the 3 entire chapters) are an absolute must for any study on this type of topic.Others might includeEphesians 3Galatians 3
Always wondered this. Seems to me to be the same thing, but pretty much no one agrees with me. I want to study it a little, so some different views from different people will give me a starting point, a point of reference. My own view might be skewed all by itself.
One passage I would say to definitely put on your study list is Eph 2:11-22.
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. (Eph 2:11-22 KJV)
tim_from_pa
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(Denver;51769)
I'd say most importantly it involves understanding what happened to the 10 so-called "lost" tribes of Israel. Modern day Israel (the nation) is but one house - that of Judah. I don't think people understand what God said when he proclaimed that Abraham's descendants would be as numerous as the stars in the sky and the sand in the sea.To answer your question, yes, the modern day church is mostly descended from the tribes of Israel. It's not even aware of it in many cases because we've had our history rewritten, but the clues are there.
I second what Denver says. Couldn't say it better myself. Also, listen to Kriss. She's on the same page. The bible is a book about Israel. In Romans 9-11, Paul speaks of "Jews and Gentiles". Well, Gentiles can include the divorced and lost house of Israel that in reality accepted Christianity since they thought of themselves as Gentile. (c.f. Romans 9:24-26) When He speaks of Gentiles, He quotes scripture that applied to ISRAEL (not the Jew) showing that in this passage of Scripture that Jews means the house of Judah, but the Gentiles included the lost house of Israel which would become the church.
I'd say most importantly it involves understanding what happened to the 10 so-called "lost" tribes of Israel. Modern day Israel (the nation) is but one house - that of Judah. I don't think people understand what God said when he proclaimed that Abraham's descendants would be as numerous as the stars in the sky and the sand in the sea.To answer your question, yes, the modern day church is mostly descended from the tribes of Israel. It's not even aware of it in many cases because we've had our history rewritten, but the clues are there.
I second what Denver says. Couldn't say it better myself. Also, listen to Kriss. She's on the same page. The bible is a book about Israel. In Romans 9-11, Paul speaks of "Jews and Gentiles". Well, Gentiles can include the divorced and lost house of Israel that in reality accepted Christianity since they thought of themselves as Gentile. (c.f. Romans 9:24-26) When He speaks of Gentiles, He quotes scripture that applied to ISRAEL (not the Jew) showing that in this passage of Scripture that Jews means the house of Judah, but the Gentiles included the lost house of Israel which would become the church.
(beforHim;51748)
Always wondered this. Seems to me to be the same thing, but pretty much no one agrees with me. I want to study it a little, so some different views from different people will give me a starting point, a point of reference. My own view might be skewed all by itself.
beforeHim, I must congratulate you on your insight. The fleshly nation of Israel is, indeed, the Antitypical Christian Church, or Congregation of God. God chose the nation of Israel to be His favored people, and the nation said that all God had spoken to them, they would obey, Ex 24:7, 19:5,6, Deut 7:6. God made a covenant with the nation of Israel. The term covenant, means, BETWEENNESS. This means that ONLY the ones mentioned in the covenant are a part of it. Deut 5:1-4 states that only the Jews and God were a part of that covenant, The Mosaic Law Covenant. The Greek scriptures tell us that the entire Law Covenant was a forshadowing of the coming of the Messiah, Gal 3:23-25, Many places in the Hebrew Scriptures we are told about the Messiah that was to come, Gen 3:15, Isa 7:14, 9:6,7, 11:1-9, Isa chapter 53,61:1-3, Luke 4:18-21, Micah 5:2, Zech 9:9. Jesus, when talking to the Jews that did not put faith in him, said that the very scriptures they were searching, for salvation, were the very scriptures that were speaking about Jesus, the Messiah, John 5:39. God sent His Only Begotten son to earth to become the Great Ransom sacrifice that could lead to salvation for all those putting faith in Jesus, Matt 20:28, Acts 13:38,39, John 3:16. Jesus told the Jews, because they had rejected him as the Messiah, the Kingdom of God would be taken from them and given to a nation producing it's fruits, Matt 21:42-44. The scriptures tell us that God has given ONE name by which men MUST be saved, Acts 4:12. The nation REJECTED Jesus, Luke 9:22, so they were no longer God's favored people. The Christian Congregation became the ones He was favoring. Christians were the followers of Christ, who was plainly showen to be God's son, Acts 11:26, Acts 3:22-24, Acts 2:22-24. Notice how the scriptures explain that fleshly Israel is not really ISRAEL, that the children of the flesh are not the children of God, Rom 9:2-8. The entire chapter of Romans 11 tells about the rejection by the Jews of Jesus and about the way to getting back into God's favor, by being grafted again into the Garden Olive tree, the same way the people of the nations had to do to gain salvation by God. Any person who does not accept Jesus as the Messiah, Christ, and obey his commands are actually Antichrists, 1John 2:18-23, 4:2,3, 2John 7. It is not possible for any person who denys Jesus as the Christ, to be saved!!John 6:28,29, Acts 4:12.
Always wondered this. Seems to me to be the same thing, but pretty much no one agrees with me. I want to study it a little, so some different views from different people will give me a starting point, a point of reference. My own view might be skewed all by itself.
beforeHim, I must congratulate you on your insight. The fleshly nation of Israel is, indeed, the Antitypical Christian Church, or Congregation of God. God chose the nation of Israel to be His favored people, and the nation said that all God had spoken to them, they would obey, Ex 24:7, 19:5,6, Deut 7:6. God made a covenant with the nation of Israel. The term covenant, means, BETWEENNESS. This means that ONLY the ones mentioned in the covenant are a part of it. Deut 5:1-4 states that only the Jews and God were a part of that covenant, The Mosaic Law Covenant. The Greek scriptures tell us that the entire Law Covenant was a forshadowing of the coming of the Messiah, Gal 3:23-25, Many places in the Hebrew Scriptures we are told about the Messiah that was to come, Gen 3:15, Isa 7:14, 9:6,7, 11:1-9, Isa chapter 53,61:1-3, Luke 4:18-21, Micah 5:2, Zech 9:9. Jesus, when talking to the Jews that did not put faith in him, said that the very scriptures they were searching, for salvation, were the very scriptures that were speaking about Jesus, the Messiah, John 5:39. God sent His Only Begotten son to earth to become the Great Ransom sacrifice that could lead to salvation for all those putting faith in Jesus, Matt 20:28, Acts 13:38,39, John 3:16. Jesus told the Jews, because they had rejected him as the Messiah, the Kingdom of God would be taken from them and given to a nation producing it's fruits, Matt 21:42-44. The scriptures tell us that God has given ONE name by which men MUST be saved, Acts 4:12. The nation REJECTED Jesus, Luke 9:22, so they were no longer God's favored people. The Christian Congregation became the ones He was favoring. Christians were the followers of Christ, who was plainly showen to be God's son, Acts 11:26, Acts 3:22-24, Acts 2:22-24. Notice how the scriptures explain that fleshly Israel is not really ISRAEL, that the children of the flesh are not the children of God, Rom 9:2-8. The entire chapter of Romans 11 tells about the rejection by the Jews of Jesus and about the way to getting back into God's favor, by being grafted again into the Garden Olive tree, the same way the people of the nations had to do to gain salvation by God. Any person who does not accept Jesus as the Messiah, Christ, and obey his commands are actually Antichrists, 1John 2:18-23, 4:2,3, 2John 7. It is not possible for any person who denys Jesus as the Christ, to be saved!!John 6:28,29, Acts 4:12.
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