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Jay Ross

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You are carelessly rejecting God's word. Do you actually need to be told and threatened with death not to steal, or murder? Yikes if you do.......

Dave that is just your opinion and one I am happy to ignore as your basis for making that statement is based on flimsy evidence.
 
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Dave L

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Dave that is just your opinion and one I am happy to ignore as your basis for making that statement is based on flimsy evidence.
WHy did Jesus call his blood the "blood of the New Covenant"?

“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:28) (KJV 1900)

“And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.” (Hebrews 12:24) (KJV 1900)
 

Jay Ross

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WHy did Jesus call his blood the "blood of the New Covenant"?

“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:28) (KJV 1900)

“And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.” (Hebrews 12:24) (KJV 1900)

You need to dig a little deeper to gain understanding.

I am driving a new (neos) car but it is a second hand car.

However if I said I was driving a refurbished (kainos) car, it is still an ancient car but it has been made to be like new again and has been brought up to the new standards applicable.

The English translations that we have, are deficient in providing the context of the original source texts.
 

BreadOfLife

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If you read closely, the Ten Commandments HUNG from the Two Great Commandments. Christ abolished the Ten along with the unbelievers who needed them. The Two Great Commandments are the backbone of Christian ethics.
The 2 "greatest" Commandments of Christ ARE the Ten Commandments, Einstein.

The first - "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."
The second - "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

The First encapsulates the First THREE Commandments.
The Second encapsulates the next SEVEN Commandments.

NOT that difficult to grasp . . .
 

marks

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1 Timoth 1:7-11

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.


Edit to add . . . I see now this passage was already brought up. So the one who says that they are under the law declares themself unrighteous and lawless.
 

Marymog

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We still have no "priests" in the NT. Why, because all believers are priests.

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” (1 Peter 2:9) (KJV 1900)

And Paul taught that each believer has a ministry in the body of Christ. Some are elders, teachers, pastors, all of which are also know as bishops [elders], presbyters [elders]. And also deacons and helps. Ephesians 4:11–12

“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers [bishops/elders], to feed [pastor] the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” (Acts 20:28) (KJV 1900)

“Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:” (Philippians 1:1) (KJV 1900)
hi Dave,

What is your definition of “priest”?

Curious Mary
 

epostle

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We still have no "priests" in the NT. Why, because all believers are priests.

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” (1 Peter 2:9) (KJV 1900)

And Paul taught that each believer has a ministry in the body of Christ. Some are elders, teachers, pastors, all of which are also know as bishops [elders], presbyters [elders]. And also deacons and helps. Ephesians 4:11–12

“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers [bishops/elders], to feed [pastor] the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” (Acts 20:28) (KJV 1900)

“Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:” (Philippians 1:1) (KJV 1900)
Yes, the Church has been teaching the common priesthood for 2000 years. You use those scriptures to justify your anti-authority mindset. A common priest does not have the same function as a ministerial priest. You just deny or ignore every supporting scripture to this fact.

"Several evangelical scholars have noted that the problem with Protestant ecclesiology is that there is no Protestant ecclesiology. In many denominations—and especially in non-denominational churchesthere is no hierarchy of churches responsible to a central head, no accountability beyond the local congregation, no fellowship beyond the local assembly, no missional emphasis that gains support from hundreds of congregations, and no superiors to whom a local pastor must submit for doctrinal or ethical fidelity."​
written by Dr Daniel Wallace, a Reformed Protestant who is a professor and Greek scholar.
NICK'S CATHOLIC BLOG: Daniel Wallace: "There is no Protestant Ecclesiology" - Can Ecclesiology be a "Non-Essential" for Christians?
 
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Dave L

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Yes, the Church has been teaching the common priesthood for 2000 years. You use those scriptures to justify your anti-authority mindset. A common priest does not have the same function as a ministerial priest. You just deny or ignore every supporting scripture to this fact.

"Several evangelical scholars have noted that the problem with Protestant ecclesiology is that there is no Protestant ecclesiology. In many denominations—and especially in non-denominational churchesthere is no hierarchy of churches responsible to a central head, no accountability beyond the local congregation, no fellowship beyond the local assembly, no missional emphasis that gains support from hundreds of congregations, and no superiors to whom a local pastor must submit for doctrinal or ethical fidelity."​
written by Dr Daniel Wallace, a Reformed Protestant who is a professor and Greek scholar.
NICK'S CATHOLIC BLOG: Daniel Wallace: "There is no Protestant Ecclesiology" - Can Ecclesiology be a "Non-Essential" for Christians?
I think if you could prove anything beyond congregational church government in the NT, you would have done so by now.
 
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Dave L

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hi Dave,

What is your definition of “priest”?

Curious Mary
“And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.” (Revelation 1:6) (KJV 1900)

“But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His possession, so that you may proclaim the praises of the One who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.” (1 Peter 2:9) (HCSB)

“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.” (Hebrews 7:12) (KJV 1900)

“Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 2:5) (KJV 1900)
 
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Dave L

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The 2 "greatest" Commandments of Christ ARE the Ten Commandments, Einstein.

The first - "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."
The second - "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

The First encapsulates the First THREE Commandments.
The Second encapsulates the next SEVEN Commandments.

NOT that difficult to grasp . . .
You have it backwards.
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” (Matthew 22:37–40) (KJV 1900)
 

tabletalk

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I am not part of any movement or denomination.

Do you worship God with other Christians; meeting to hear the Word preached, corporate prayer, fellowshipping, and sharing the Table of the Lord?
 
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Dave L

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Do you worship God with other Christians; meeting to hear the Word preached, corporate prayer, fellowshipping, and sharing the Table of the Lord?
Off and on. But remain a NT house church without denominational entanglements.
 
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marksman

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You are wrong. It is you that wants to take the words of God out of their context and apply them to make up a Theology that you think saves people.

You are of those that take everything in the Bible, put them in a blender, chop them all up and come out with what YOU want., When you take writing out of context the meaning is lost. The context determines the nature of the writing. One word does not make a context.

People, like you, can not understand that the word of God tells us the story of God's dealing with mankind. To you, God never changed the way He has dealt with mankind. You can not see that He dealt with the Jews as His people and through covenants made to the """Jews ONLY""".

But now, since the Jews rejected His Son, God has reached out to the Gentiles and it is not through any of the Jewish covenants. It is through His grace and faith in His payment for the sins of the world.

I think you can only see the 4 gospel and the first 6 chapters of Acts. That is why you can not see that Paul's gospel of God's grace is made for the ungodly.

Mark 10:38-39
38 But Jesus said to them, "You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?"
39 They said to Him, "We are able." So Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink the cup that I drink, and with the baptism I am baptized with you will be baptized;
NKJV
Now, tell me, is the baptism Jesus is speaking of , water baptism?

No, I am not. You still have ignored all the other verses about baptism. until you correct that mistake, your claims don't hold water (pun intended). Ask any professor in any bible college.

I have been to bible college and have a degree in theology and have lectured in bible college and I have not heard one single professor claim what you do.
 

H. Richard

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No, I am not. You still have ignored all the other verses about baptism. until you correct that mistake, your claims don't hold water (pun intended). Ask any professor in any bible college.

I have been to bible college and have a degree in theology and have lectured in bible college and I have not heard one single professor claim what you do.

So you are saying you are the most learned in scripture than I am. Well that is what PRIDE does for you. You know nothing of my education in the scriptures. The Bible Colleges teach the theologies of Men. The ones that teach just teach their theology (opinions). What you are saying is that those teachers are better at teaching the scriptures than the Holy Spirit.

God did not choose the 11 (men) to teach Paul the gospel that was given to him. The Holy Spirit did for three years.

According to scripture it is not the worldly educated that receives the gospel.

1 Cor 1:26-31
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God — and righteousness and sanctification and redemption —
31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."
NKJV
 

Marymog

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“And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.” (Revelation 1:6) (KJV 1900)

“But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His possession, so that you may proclaim the praises of the One who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.” (1 Peter 2:9) (HCSB)

“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.” (Hebrews 7:12) (KJV 1900)

“Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 2:5) (KJV 1900)
Thank you for the quotes from Scripture.

What is YOUR definition of "Priest"? Or what is your interpretation of those passages that you provided?

Patient Mary
 
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Dave L

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Thank you for the quotes from Scripture.

What is YOUR definition of "Priest"? Or what is your interpretation of those passages that you provided?

Patient Mary

B. Priesthood of the believer: immediate and direct influence and communion with God without an earthly mediator.
1. Immediate: nearest, next, with nothing between.
2. Direct: with nothing or no-one in between, in an unbroken line.
3. Mediator: one who acts as go-between or peacemaker between opposing sides in a dispute.
4. Influence: the power to produce an effect.
5. Communion: fellowship, or two-way relationship with one another.
6. God: the Creator, the true God (the God of the Bible), who has been offended by sin and whose justice must be satisfied.


Kendall, R. T. (1996). Understanding Theology, Volume One (p. 233). Ross-shire, Great Britain: Christian Focus.
 
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BreadOfLife

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You have it backwards.
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” (Matthew 22:37–40) (KJV 1900)
WRONG - it's not "backwards".

The first and greatest Commandment encapsulates the First THREE Commandments.
I am the Lord your God - you shalt have NO false god before me.
You shalt not take the name pf the Lord your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

The Second encapsulates the REST of them.
You shalt not kill
You shalt not commit adultery
You shalt not steal
You shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shalt not covet your neighbor's wife
You shalt not covet your neighbor's goods/property
 
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Dave L

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WRONG - it's not "backwards".

The first and greatest Commandment encapsulates the First THREE Commandments.
I am the Lord your God - you shalt have NO false god before me.
You shalt not take the name pf the Lord your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

The Second encapsulates the REST of them.
You shalt not kill
You shalt not commit adultery
You shalt not steal
You shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shalt not covet your neighbor's wife
You shalt not covet your neighbor's goods/property
If you need to be told not to steal or murder, you are not saved. Saved people don't want to do that sort of thing.
 

marksman

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So you are saying you are the most learned in scripture than I am. Well that is what PRIDE does for you. You know nothing of my education in the scriptures. The Bible Colleges teach the theologies of Men. The ones that teach just teach their theology (opinions). What you are saying is that those teachers are better at teaching the scriptures than the Holy Spirit.

God did not choose the 11 (men) to teach Paul the gospel that was given to him. The Holy Spirit did for three years.

According to scripture it is not the worldly educated that receives the gospel.

1 Cor 1:26-31
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God — and righteousness and sanctification and redemption —
31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."
NKJV

Oh dear, another silly post that tries to twist the obvious to suit their take on things.

So you are saying you are the most learned in scripture than I am.

Bad English so please correct it.

The Bible Colleges teach the theologies of Men.

Of course they do as you have I hope seen the prospectus of every bible college on the earth and if you haven't your statement is slanderous.

What you are saying is that those teachers are better at teaching the scriptures than the Holy Spirit.

I never mentioned the Holy Spirit. That is your arrogant claim because your arguments do not hold water. If I put you up against those who have been gifted by the Holy Spirit with the gift of teaching it would be quite entertaining to see them demolish your silly arguments.

According to scripture, it is not the worldly educated that receives the gospel.

1 Cor 1:26-31
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

That is right but you have twisted it to suit your weird theology.

The scripture says not many. It does not say not any. You have chosen to ignore that fact because I have a feeling you resent that you are not one of the few although you try and make out that you are.

If you are unable to exegete scripture correctly which you have shown so far that you do not have that ability, please don't bother replying and continue to expose your lack of understanding of scripture.
 

H. Richard

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Oh dear, another silly post that tries to twist the obvious to suit their take on things.

So you are saying you are the most learned in scripture than I am.

Bad English so please correct it.

The Bible Colleges teach the theologies of Men.

Of course they do as you have I hope seen the prospectus of every bible college on the earth and if you haven't your statement is slanderous.

What you are saying is that those teachers are better at teaching the scriptures than the Holy Spirit.

I never mentioned the Holy Spirit. That is your arrogant claim because your arguments do not hold water. If I put you up against those who have been gifted by the Holy Spirit with the gift of teaching it would be quite entertaining to see them demolish your silly arguments.

According to scripture, it is not the worldly educated that receives the gospel.

1 Cor 1:26-31
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

That is right but you have twisted it to suit your weird theology.

The scripture says not many. It does not say not any. You have chosen to ignore that fact because I have a feeling you resent that you are not one of the few although you try and make out that you are.

If you are unable to exegete scripture correctly which you have shown so far that you do not have that ability, please don't bother replying and continue to expose your lack of understanding of scripture.


You are just another religious person who thinks they are so smart that they can get to heaven because of it.

You think you have put me down just as the religious have always done. You would have been right in there throwing stones at Stephen. You show your CAIN self-righteousness.

No, I want reply to you again. I wrote about baptism as it is shown in a context and you just can't accept it. That is your problem, not mine.

A forum is supposed to be a place where a person can express their beliefs without the fear that someone will want to wreck havoc on them for having them. I have been on forums for well over 15-years and people have said all kinds of things about me. I do not feel put out by it. They said those same things to, and about, Jesus. However, when some one gets too aggressive I make the follow comments to them and add their name to my "do not respond to this person under any circumstances" list.

Some wish to be religious policemen on the forums. They think that they know the truth in the scriptures, feel that others do not, and that the forum must be protected from those that do not believe as they do. When they enter into a discussion it is not to "share" what they believe but to "impose" what they believe on others or to destroy what another believes. This is a very serious attitude problem.
 
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BreadOfLife

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If you need to be told not to steal or murder, you are not saved. Saved people don't want to do that sort of thing.
This is a stupid argument.

Jesus taught His followers MANY things. Are you saying that He was wasting His time??
What about the lesson of the Sheep and Goats (Matt. 24:31-46)??
The Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37)??
The Golden Rule (Matt. 7:12)??

Jesus taught His followers to be charitable - to be merciful. He told them NOT to be judgmental (Matt. 7:1-6).
According to YOU - He was an idiot for telling them these things because they should have already known them.

Finally - Jesus Jesus told His followers to keep His COMMANDMENTS (John 14:15).
WHY should He have to "command" anything if they already knew to do these things.

What an idiotic argument you present . . .