The trouble with religion

FHII · Feb 16, 2019

Folks, I have news for you: I am religious, I am in a Church and I am part of a cult.

Take a moment to be shocked. Now before you ask for an explanation, analyze the true meaning of those words.

My cult isn't dangerous to anyone but the devil and his children, by the way... Most of society will be hung up on "cult". Might tease y'all with that one! Just for fun! But I will win!

Helen · Feb 16, 2019

historyb said:
It is Religion, if you want to be a Christian you are in a Religion it's up to you. I am glad my Religion is Christianity not just some silly nonsense

YOU may feel , and have the opinion that 'your' christianity is a religion ..good for you...that is your opinion...

But , on the other hand , many of us who are Christians have just as much right to claim that we are NOT in a religion but we are in a living hearing and and speaking relationship with our Father. Not a dead formality.

MY opinion....

Nancy · Feb 16, 2019

"ByGrace" said:
YOU may feel , and have the opinion that 'your' christianity is a religion ..good for you...that is your opinion...

But , on the other hand , many of us who are Christians have just as much right to claim that we are NOT in a religion but we are in a living hearing and and speaking relationship with our Father. Not a dead formality.

MY opinion....

I call it my "faith" rather than "religion". In this day and age, religion conjures up all kinds of imaginations. And the Bible simply says that "pure religion is taking care of orphans and widows..."
Ours is a relationship based on faith!

mjrhealth · Feb 16, 2019

And when Christianity wakes up and comes out of Egypt, Pharaoh is going to get rather lonely, but I dont think Christianity will ever wake up till they look up and HE is here.

Exo_14:11 And they said unto Moses, Because there were no graves in Egypt, hast thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus with us, to carry us forth out of Egypt?

Jesus did not call men out of religion to die, but so that they could have life in Him, But so few desire His life.

Nancy · Feb 16, 2019

"ByGrace" said:
Thanks for yours .....how much time do you have? LOL

I'll try and nutshell because I ramble too much...

First, I see only God's Church in the earth..ONE church, One faith etc.. ( I respect your views too, but cannot hold them as my own)

I am in constant contact with many. I wont say this very loudly or the legalists will be upon me..but my husband and I were in leadership for a couple of decades. It started in England in our late 30's...our kids were teens, we, at that time drove to another town to attend the little mission hall where we first "saw the light" and came to Christ.

Many young friends of our kids hung out at our house...like a dozen at a time...shortly they came to Christ when we shared of the love of God who sent His Son to die for them , so that they could be in a living relationship with God the Father. ( I told you I got wordy and rambling! ha)

Then , I'd get phone calls for some of the mothers of the kids, wanting to hear about what made their kids all excited about God. ( ages of kids 12-17)
Soon , obviously , we started home study meetings...and also invited our pastor from the church where he had first preached to us .. he came to a few meetings...then prayed over us and blessed us to "go and do as Jesus did " - and share the good news of the death, burial and resurrection...

Within a few months we had to rent a hall, we had 78 people, from ages 80 down to 12.
Remember, this was back in the 60's... In England God was sweeping the country with a revival of house meetings ( like in Acts)
The people wouldn't stay away...they wanted 5 weekly meetings and the other two night , all the youth came to our house to hang out.

I know this is radical for you...and for all the legalist that we knew...they wanted their same old , same old, boring repetitious meetings...and frowned on us. But the meetings were like a freight train ...unstoppable...

Some American preacher came to town and wanted us to come over the attend some of their conferences. The story is too long...but in the end were were asked to come over to Canada in 1976 and help a large group here which was struggling. My brother took over the gatherings back in England..,..meaning, he paid for the Hall to meet in...and God did the rest!

BOL we were never 'a church' , we were all just a small part of God's Church without walls......God Glorious Church in the earth. Which is, His people , His body, His Bride....as Paul shows us. ( But , we all do understand what people mean, when they say.." Have you been to church today. " We just answer...not preach a sermon on it!
It just a habit now that people call it "church".
Without people the building is just that, a building.

As for joining local gatherings...we have tried.
I still there listening and inwardly groaning...and wondering what on earth God thinks of us all.
Rather than show my discontent, I just do not go. I cannot agree with half of that I hear preached.

So..that is all I can tell you. In our 50 + years of christianity we have just about seen it all... the good, the bad, and the ugly.

I have more confidence than you do, that God is Love...and He has a Master Plan for us all.

God bless ...Helen

See how God can use something even so un-orthodox (hippy days

) so forcefully to do His bidding ♥

Nancy · Feb 16, 2019

aspen said:
I just do it for fun

Nancy · Feb 16, 2019

Episkopos said:
The religious/secular dichotomy is artificial. It is a false dichotomy. Jesus came to mankind as a real person....not a religious figure or apparition. Being spiritual in Christ is in real time...in reality.

When a person is healed by Jesus... is it secular or religious? Of course neither. Something is either real or not. That is what religion is missing...reality.

It also seems to be missing the "true" definition anymore. And what about Jesus saying that "True religion is taking care of orphans and widows"?

historyb · Feb 16, 2019

"ByGrace" said:
YOU may feel , and have the opinion that 'your' christianity is a religion ..good for you...that is your opinion...

But , on the other hand , many of us who are Christians have just as much right to claim that we are NOT in a religion but we are in a living hearing and and speaking relationship with our Father. Not a dead formality.

MY opinion....

Sure you can be like the world and have all kind of fun redefining words; However, it does not change the fact the Christianity is the definition of Religion and you can not get away from that. The much better thing to say is that you don't want the tradition (Scripture, history, Church) that religion brings but want to chart your own path.

Anthony D'Arienzo · Feb 16, 2019

"ByGrace" said:
I'm a bit confused here BOL.
I believe pretty much the same way as mjrhealth does. Neither of us are " in" church and haven't been for decades.... because we agree that most organized church is a cult/religion...a god of their own making.
So why do you throw the paramilitary sex thing at us? I may be thick, and I probably am, but I don't get the connection.

For me..."religion" is the act of doing religious things, without a living relationship with Christ Himself. Religion is a dead thing because it does not have the life of Christ in it!

That is just my own definition and observation.
You and I both, if we are on a daily, moment by moment speaking and hearing relationship with Christ...then neither of us are in a dead religion but a living relationship.....right?

I just can't see where 'the paramilitary sex thing' comes into anything here

You must have had a train of thought when you posted it...?

Your defective understanding of The church is the root of your errors. To despise the church that Jesus loves is to despise Jesus himself.

mjrhealth · Feb 17, 2019

historyb said:
Sure you can be like the world and have all kind of fun redefining words; However, it does not change the fact the Christianity is the definition of Religion and you can not get away from that. The much better thing to say is that you don't want the tradition (Scripture, history, Church) that religion brings but want to chart your own path.

Actually Jesus charted a new path, but most people dont like it.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Should read, but few desire it.. It is one you do alone with Him and so few desire it.

epostle · Feb 17, 2019

historyb said:
The definition Christianity is a Religion:

(1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural
(2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

Definition of RELIGION

If your a Christian then your in a Religion and even God Himself recognizes as much in His Scriptures in James 1:27. I don't understand why protestant evangelicals want to be like secular society and try to redefine words, are evangelicals that insecure that they need to act like secular society.

"Religion" was changed into a dirty word by TV preachers in the '60's and '70's in order to draw people out of main stream churches. This new definition continues to sweep across Protestantism like a plague. The term "religion" or "religious" is constantly used incorrectly on just about every thread on this board.

Butterfly · Feb 17, 2019

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
Your defective understanding of The church is the root of your errors. To despise the church that Jesus loves is to despise Jesus himself.

And that conveys that you have not truly understand what was relayed. Do you ever pray for The Lord to open your eyes and ears !
Rita

Taken · Feb 17, 2019

BreadOfLife said:
I should have known you couldn't substantiate your idiotic anti-Catholic accusations again.

True of False?
One of the main tenets of the Catholic religion is that not formally belonging to the Catholic church is objectionally sinful???????????????

Is that a True of False statement???????????

Answer is True
OR
Answer is False

Which do you say the answer is?????????????

LOL

Taken · Feb 17, 2019

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
Your defective understanding of The church is the root of your errors. To despise the church that Jesus loves is to despise Jesus himself.

Disagree with you.
In many cases...a reference to "The church", is clearly, a reference to:
A building.
A denomination.
A geographical location the building sits.
A geographical location of a headquarters that puts forth the agenda for its denomination locations.

Disagree with you.
There was no indication of despise/hate toward "THE" "Church" that Jesus loved.
Nor despise toward Jesus.

The Church Jesus Loves, is a spiritual church,
that He "established".
It is not a brick and mortar building.

Jesus is the Head of His Church.
He preparedthe foundation [/U] of His Church...
By First "teaching" to His chosen disciples.
Then laid the foundation of His Church...
By Then "sending forth" His Apostals to carry on His "teaching" to other men.

Every other man "hearing" / "learning" is being prepared as disciples, to FOLLOW Jesus' teachings.
Every disciple can freely CHOOSE to become ENJOINED with Christ's "spiritual" Chruch.........or not.

A man who "chooses" to become ENJOYNED with Christ's spiritual Church, is thereafter, a MEMBER of Christ's Church.

Christ's Church is likened to the erection of a corner stone,
(Christ)
a foundation,
(Apostles)
a building up of stone upon stone,
(new members)

Christ is IN the new members.
The new members are IN Christ.

Regardless of WHERE geographically in this entire world, that MEMBER is;
That MEMBER is ALWAYS IN Christ, and Christ ALWAYS IN that MEMBER.

Should a MEMBER of Chirst's Church...
never set foot in a "man made" establishment the man calls a "church",
Has zero baring on that mans "MEMBERSHIP", in Christ's "spiritual" Church.

As FOR MAN MADE CHURCHES...
Most have a "headquarters" governing and distributing the directives of their churches.

They may all claim, JESUS is the "head" of their church.
That their church MEMBERS are also MEMBERS of Christ's "spiritual" church.

And "THEY" are the developers of their own "CULT" "practices" FOR THEIR particular churches.

The "CULT" "practices"...is simply "their SYSTEM"...of "WHAT' they have "determined" is an ACCEPTABLE WAY...
To Teach...devotion and venerations toward:
Christ, other particular figures, and/or objects
To Teach...traditions, requirements, obligations, protocols, rules, etc.

Jesus DID NOT Command, that EVERY MAN, Enjoining "HIS CHURCH", must ALSO Join in participating in a "man-made" Church.

Matt 18
[20] For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Some people DO NOT agree with the "CULT" systems of man-made churches, and elect TO NOT "join" man-made churches.

That DOES NOT inturn mean, they despise Christ's Church.
That DOES NOT inturn mean, they despise
Man-made Churches.
That DOES NOT inturn mean, they despise Christ.
That DOES NOT inturn mean, they do not understand what Christ's Church is.

It means they DO UNDERSTAND what Christ's "spiritual" Church "IS"...
and DO NOT AGREE with obligating themselves to joining and participating in Man-made church cult systems.

Glory to God,
Taken

Taken · Feb 17, 2019

Nancy said:
It also seems to be missing the "true" definition anymore. And what about Jesus saying that "True religion is taking care of orphans and widows"?

Yes that is a Principle of Jesus' teaching.
Being...Communities with like beliefs of the Widow, should help with the needs of Widows and Orphans.

In the US Constitution, (which has a foundation steeped in Gods Principles/Precepts), Obligated the Government, to help care for the needs of Widows and Orphans.....WHEN the Government was the CAUSE of woman becoming a Widow, and her child an Orphan.
(Such as a man leaving his wife and children, to participate in a declaration of war, BY the US, and the man was KILLED participating in that war).

Of course that was LONG, before, women joined in war battles; "insurance" companies sprung up; governments turned police established to be "peace officers", into "military armed side-kicks" and bust into private family homes and slaughter people.

God Bless,
Taken

Acolyte · Feb 17, 2019

Isn't it like, several people reading the same book, each receiving a different message.(?)

We are the church. We all believe in Jesus as our savoir, we all have a set aside place in the body. Therefore, we all get a different message.

Please take take this in the spirit it's given.. lighthearted with a smile.. every body has a sphincter. The human body has several.

Anthony D'Arienzo · Feb 17, 2019

Taken,
[Disagree with you.]

ok, lets see what you have got.
[In many cases...a reference to "The church", is clearly, a reference to:
A building.
A denomination.
A geographical location the building sits.
A geographical location of a headquarters that puts forth the agenda for its denomination locations.]
Not in scripture. A church is a local gathering of called out believers which is under the oversight of elders and deacons.
It is a gathering of saved sinners whom Jesus loved and died for, which has mutual responsibilites one to another, and church discipline.

[Disagree with you.]
ok...I am open to biblical correction
[There was no indication of despise/hate toward "THE" "Church" that Jesus loved.
Nor despise toward Jesus.]
When a person brags that they have not been to a "church" in years, that is plenty of indication to me....How do they obey Hebrews 13:7, 17
7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

[The Church Jesus Loves, is a spiritual church,
that He "established".
It is not a brick and mortar building.]

Yes all members of a local assembly have been dwelt by the Holy Spirit to serve others

[Jesus is the Head of His Church.
He preparedthe foundation [/U] of His Church...
By First "teaching" to His chosen disciples.
Then laid the foundation of His Church...
By Then "sending forth" His Apostals to carry on His "teaching" to other men.]

yes, to form local assemblies

[Every other man "hearing" / "learning" is being prepared as disciples, to FOLLOW Jesus' teachings.
Every disciple can freely CHOOSE to become ENJOINED with Christ's "spiritual" Chruch.........or not.]

It is not a choice but a responsibility
14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

[A man who "chooses" to become ENJOYNED with Christ's spiritual Church, is thereafter, a MEMBER of Christ's Church.]

That is not the teaching of the NT. There are no rouge lone ranger Christians.

[Regardless of WHERE geographically in this entire world, that MEMBER is;
That MEMBER is ALWAYS IN Christ, and Christ ALWAYS IN that MEMBER.]
you are confusing Kingdom members, with Church members. Most likely because you have not been in SS, or under the preaching

[Should a MEMBER of Chirst's Church...
never set foot in a "man made" establishment the man calls a "church",
Has zero baring on that mans "MEMBERSHIP", in Christ's "spiritual" Church.]
Wrong, and rebellious to the pastoral epistles.

[As FOR MAN MADE CHURCHES...
Most have a "headquarters" governing and distributing the directives of their churches.]
God has called men to form assemblies, God brings the people in

[They may all claim, JESUS is the "head" of their church.
That their church MEMBERS are also MEMBERS of Christ's "spiritual" church.

And "THEY" are the developers of their own "CULT" "practices" FOR THEIR particular churches.

The "CULT" "practices"...is simply "their SYSTEM"...of "WHAT' they have "determined" is an ACCEPTABLE WAY...
To Teach...devotion and venerations toward:
Christ, other particular figures, and/or objects
To Teach...traditions, requirements, obligations, protocols, rules, etc.]

This is your excuse for your rebellion

[Jesus DID NOT Command, that EVERY MAN, Enjoining "HIS CHURCH", must ALSO Join in participating in a "man-made" Church.] yes He did

[Matt 18
[20] For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.]
The context of this verse is church discipline. if you were hearing the word preached you should know this

[Some people DO NOT agree with the "CULT" systems of man-made churches, and elect TO NOT "join" man-made churches.

That DOES NOT inturn mean, they despise Christ's Church.
That DOES NOT inturn mean, they despise
Man-made Churches.
That DOES NOT inturn mean, they despise Christ.
That DOES NOT inturn mean, they do not understand what Christ's Church is.]

it is rebellion

[It means they DO UNDERSTAND what Christ's "spiritual" Church "IS"...
and DO NOT AGREE with obligating themselves to joining and participating in Man-made church cult systems.

Glory to God,
Taken]

No...being disobedient is always wrong

Anthony D'Arienzo · Feb 17, 2019

Butterfly said:
And that conveys that you have not truly understand what was relayed. Do you ever pray for The Lord to open your eyes and ears !
Rita

see post 57.
You perhaps fail to understand.

bbyrd009 · Feb 17, 2019

epostle said:
"Religion" was changed into a dirty word by TV preachers in the '60's and '70's in order to draw people out of main stream churches. This new definition continues to sweep across Protestantism like a plague. The term "religion" or "religious" is constantly used incorrectly on just about every thread on this board.

I think so, too. I'm drinking a cup of coffee right now, like I do every morning at this time, religiously

Waiting on him · Feb 17, 2019

mjrhealth said:
Religion, why is it such a problem, Well it all starts with this.

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

And repeated

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

And again

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

It is so simple, when a man and woman come together and, well have sex, and the male seed enters into the female, they become one, and life is produced,

And so it is with Christ, when anyone truly comes to Christ, they receive Gods seed, the Holy Spirit, and when we receive Him we have a new man birthed in us as life is produced.

But.

1Co_6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

1Co_6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

And this works in the spirit, for when one becomes joined to the harlot church, they receive her seed, which is a counterfeit, being female she has no seed of her own, so you get this one.

Rev_2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

So if you have ever wondered why, catholics sound like catholics, mormans sound like mormans, JW’s like Jw’s, Sda like Sda, etc etc, it is because they have joined themselves to their church, their religion and the two have become as one.

And that religious spirit can be very violent when anyone stands up and tries to take one of her children from her she despises the truth and rejects all that is from God.

That’s why it is written,

Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

But so few are willing.

But you see when one comes to Christ, truly, than,

1Co_6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. And all you will ever want to do is Glorify your Husband, Christ, as any woman who loves Her husband would.

This brings to mind Proverbs 31

The trouble with religion

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