Calvinism is a Cult
- Thread starter CoreIssue
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I did not go and throw a bunch of scriptures at you with the goal to change your view because I'm not going to disrespect you way or scripture.
If God already decided where everyone goes with no freewill involved there is nothing to discuss or debate.
No one is saved by grace through faith WITHOUT obedience to the Gospel (and that applies every Calvinist). If you have failed to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, then you have not been saved. And that my friend is a conscious decision. Here are the Scriptures to support it:
3,000 SAVED IN JERUSALEM
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
ETHIOPIAN SAVED IN THE WILDERNESS
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
PHILIPPIAN JAILOR SAVED IN A PRISON
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
It is both absurd and unbiblical to claim that sinners DO NOT need to make a decision to either obey the Gospel or disobey it.
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? (Rom 10:16)
Agree one believes by decision, not programming.
The 79 verses I posted about seeking God all require personal decisions.
So the Lord chose to die for us but not them via His unconditional choice, i.e. we had not choice in the matter? And those who die lost, effectively could call on the name of the Lord and yet might not be saved because the Lord didn't choose them? So, even though it might have been their choice to go to heaven; God instead thrusts them down to hell?
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So, ppl living in South America(in the days of the Christ’s earthly life)and died before missionaries got to them heard the gospel? Srsly?
The scripture that I quoted above is effectively taken from Psalms 19 and refers to the fact that creation speaks and teaches all men of the nature and eternal power and Godhead of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ; so that they are without excuse. They may not have heard the gospel per se; however the creation around them testifies to them the nature and power of the Lord; and leads them to that second light of conscience. If they obey the second light, the Lord will not leave them without the third light of Christ. But all are held accountable if they reject the first light of creation; the testimony is established and cannot be denied: and therefore those who lie to themselves and believe in evolution or idols are without excuse before the Lord.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
No, I've read them which is why I'm asking you to substantiate your claims, libel and accusations. Others have made the same request. I'm certain you cannot and will not, but this is your opportunity.
And to make things extremely easy, here are the general statements about the God we believe in; the one you claim is unscriptural, @CoreIssue
CoreIssue,
[I agree with the widely held belief Calvinism is a cult.
The God of Calvinism does not resemble the God of the Bible.
The salvation of Calvinism is not biblical.]
Core issue accused Calvinists of not having a God who resembles the BIBLICAL GOD
When a biblical statement was given of the Biblical God ,Coreissue cannot back up his accusation 8 pages into the thread. let's help him out
Chapter 2: Of God and of the Holy Trinity
1]._____The Lord our God is but one only living and true God; whose subsistence is in and of himself, infinite in being and perfection; whose essence cannot be comprehended by any but himself;
2]a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto;
3]who is immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, every way infinite, most holy, most wise, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will for his own glory;
4]most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin;
5]the rewarder of them that diligently seek him, and withal most just and terrible in his judgments, hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.
( 1 Corinthians 8:4, 6; Deuteronomy 6:4; Jeremiah 10:10; Isaiah 48:12; Exodus 3:14; John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17; Deuteronomy 4:15, 16; Malachi 3:6; 1 Kings 8:27; Jeremiah 23:23; Psalms 90:2; Genesis 17:1; Isaiah 6:3; Psalms 115:3; Isaiah 46:10; Proverbs 16:4; Romans 11:36; Exodus 34:6, 7; Hebrews 11:6; Nehemiah 9:32, 33; Psalms 5:5, 6; Exodus 34:7; Nahum 1:2, 3 )
6]._____God, having all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of himself, is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient,
7]not standing in need of any creature which he hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them;
8]he is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things,
9]and he hath most sovereign dominion over all creatures, to do by them, for them, or upon them, whatsoever himself pleaseth;
10]in his sight all things are open and manifest, his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature, so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain;
11]he is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands;
12]to him is due from angels and men, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience, as creatures they owe unto the Creator, and whatever he is further pleased to require of them.
( John 5:26; Psalms 148:13; Psalms 119:68; Job 22:2, 3; Romans 11:34-36; Daniel 4:25, 34, 35; Hebrews 4:13; Ezekiel 11:5; Acts 15:18; Psalms 145:17; Revelation 5:12-14 )
13.]In this divine and infinite Being there are three subsistences, the Father, the Word or Son, and Holy Spirit, of one substance, power, and eternity, each having the whole divine essence, yet the essence undivided:
14]the Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father;
15]the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son; all infinite, without beginning, therefore but one God, who is not to be divided in nature and being,
16]but distinguished by several peculiar relative properties and personal relations; which doctrine of the Trinity is the foundation of all our communion with God, and comfortable dependence on him.
( 1 John 5:7; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Exodus 3:14; John 14:11; 1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:14,18; John 15:26; Galatians 4:6 )
Sure, I'll pitch in
Westminster Confession of Faith
Chapter II
Of God, and of the Holy Trinity
I. There is but one only, living, and true God, who is infinite in being and perfection, a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts,or passions; immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, most wise, most holy, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will, for his own glory; most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him; and withal, most just, and terrible in his judgments,hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.
Deut 6:4; 1 Cor 8:4, 6, Jer 10:10; 1 Thes 1:9., Job 11:7-9; 26:14. , John 4:24. , 1 Tim 1:17. , Deut 4:15-16; John 4:24 with Luke 24:39. , Acts 14:11, 15. , Mal 3:6; James 1:17., 1 Kings 8:27; Jer 23:23-24. , Psa 90:2; 1 Tim 1:17. , Psa 145:3. ,Gen 17:1; Rev 4:8. , Rom 16:27. , Isa 6:3; Rev 4:8. , Psa 115:3. , Exod 3:14. , Eph 1:11. , Prov 16:4; Rom 11:36. , 1 John 4:8, 16., Exod 34:6-7. , Heb 11:6. , Neh 9:32-33. , Psa 5:5-6. , Exod 34:7; Nahum 1:2-3.
II. God has all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of Himself; and is alone in and unto he himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which he has made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them. He is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things; and has most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them whatsoever himself pleases. In his sight all things are open and manifest, his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature, so as nothing is to Him contingent, or uncertain. He is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands. To Him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience he is pleased to require of them.
John 5:26. , Acts 7:2. , Psa 119:68. , Rom 9:5; 1 Tim 6:15. , Acts 17:24-25. , Job 22:2-3. , Rom 11:36. Dan 4:25, 35; 1 Tim 6:15; Rev 4:11. , Heb 4:13. , Psa 147:5; Rom 11:33-34. , Ezek 11:5; Acts 15:18. Psa 145:17; Rom 7:12. , Rev 5:12-14.
III. In the unity of the Godhead there be three Persons of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.
Mat 3:16-17; 28:19; 2 Cor 13:14; 1 John 5:7. , John 1:14, 18. , John 15:26; Gal 4:6.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
I've found that those who make these accusations cannot and will not prove them. Next it comes down to name calling. I believe God calls that bearing false witness, and others who agree to their false witness are also complicit.
The OP is saying that we are lost and on our way to hell in calling us out as a cult. Somehow it feels like this is stated towards us with glee, satisfaction and joy.
I would have to agree, though I truly hope that is not the case... Perhaps this time we'll get an actual, logical, calm, rational response!
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
Yes, the Lord chose to die for His ppl, the sheep. The Christ said 10 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.“[John 10] And also said 15 “even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.“ The Paul reiterates it when he wrote 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her.[Ephesians 5]
Natural revelation does not save my friend, nor does it declare the gospel. Look at all the paganism in the world. They see God, but they attribute their surroundings to some god of their own making. Back in Romans 1 Paul wrote 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. They take what God has made, even showed it to them, and they give the glory to some man made idol of their own making.
Natural revelation does not tell them 3b that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.[1 Corinthians 15]
Sometimes even when a person does respond calmly and rationally people don't like it
(Just trying the be light hearted and friendly here)
Indeed! It is the special revelation of the Holy Spirit through the Word of God, and this alone, that can regenerate a soul.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Yep, excellent post. Too many read things into Romans 1 that are not there and that mitigate the cross of Christ.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Sometimes even when a person does respond calmly and rationally people don't like it
Yeah. But unlike just having a conversation, if someone wants to openly attack what I and others believe, I would hope they could be rational, and give a well thought out and educated response from the Scriptures. Otherwise it is nothing more than name calling, which is not productive and shows the weakness of their claims.
I totally a million percent agree with that statement.
I passionately disagree Calvinism, but the anti-calvinism blind attacking that has been going on in this forum is NOT ok. It's ok to disagree with people, even passionately disagree, but it is totally possible to do so in a civil, rational, and listening manner. Blind attacking and mud slinging is NEVER ok to do against any person or group. My heart goes out to you @Mjh29 and the other people who have been met with this poor behavior.
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