Calvinism is a Cult

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Waiting on him

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Sorry, but Satan has deceived you, and you only imagine that God is behind your false doctrine. So let's turn to Scripture to establish that you are deceived:

1 JOHN 4:14
Καὶ ἡμεῖς τεθεάμεθα καὶ μαρτυροῦμεν ὅτι ὁ πατὴρ ἀπέσταλκεν τὸν υἱὸν σωτῆρα τοῦ κόσμου.
New International Version
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
New Living Translation
Furthermore, we have seen with our own eyes and now testify that the Father sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
English Standard Version
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
New American Standard Bible
We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
King James Bible
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
And we have seen and we testify that the Father has sent His Son as the world's Savior.
International Standard Version
We have seen for ourselves and can testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
NET Bible
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And we see and do testify that The Father has sent his Son, The Savior for the world.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
We have seen and testify to the fact that the Father sent his Son as the Savior of the world.
Jubilee Bible 2000
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
King James 2000 Bible
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
American King James Version
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
American Standard Version
And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father hath sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And we have seen, and do testify, that the Father hath sent his Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Darby Bible Translation
And *we* have seen, and testify, that the Father has sent the Son [as] Saviour of the world.
English Revised Version
And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father hath sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Webster's Bible Translation
And we have seen and do testify, that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
Weymouth New Testament
And we have seen and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
World English Bible
We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.
Young's Literal Translation
And we -- we have seen and do testify, that the Father hath sent the Son -- Saviour of the world;


Not a single Bible translation calls Christ "the Savior of the elect". So SATANIC DECEPTION is behind Calvinism.
Only those who can’t save themselves need Savior.
 

Waiting on him

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Only those who can’t save themselves need Savior.
I’ll say it again I’ve never met Mr Calvin and don’t need his opinion. Religion always puts self at the center. Consider the widow with the two mites, religion says ooooh if only I had this faith to give all
 

Enoch111

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World; the Greek word -- 2889 kósmos (literally, "something ordered") – properly, an "ordered system" (like the universe, creation); the world.
Don't compound your error with more DECEPTION. This is called wresting or twisting the Scriptures.

Obvious John was not writing about an ordered system. Why did you fail to show that kosmos means all the inhabitants of the world, and that is the correct meaning here?

Strong's Concordance
kosmos: order, the world
Original Word: κόσμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kosmos
Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos)
Definition: order, the world
Usage: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment.


Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2889: κόσμος

κόσμος, κόσμου, ὁ;
5. the inhabitants of the world:
θέατρονἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καίἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29...


Since Thayer's refers to John 1:29, lets turn to that and see that you are promoting a FALSE DOCTRINE, and this verse confirms what is stated in 1 John 4:14.

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
 

Preacher4Truth

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Does the Bible Teach it?

Here is a concise exegetical defense of "particular redemption" in the Gospel of John.

Lets notice how, in a few places, Jesus makes clear statements regarding those the Father has "given him" and join them together. Jesus said, "All that the Father gives me will come to me" (John 6:37) - From this text we understand that all that the Father gives to the Son will believe in him. It does not read "some" of those given by the Father will believe but reads "all" of those the Father has given the Son will believe. Note that it also teaches that the giving to the Son precedes their believing in Him. Lets make some other connections here ....

Please notice how this text relates directly to a passage by the same author in John 17, the High Priestly prayer. Jesus uses the same language of "those the Father has given me" when he says "I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours" (John 17:9) So He makes a clear distinction of those He prays for and those He does not before going to the cross for them .... and of these same people in verse 19 Jesus prays "And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth." That is incredible ... He sanctifies Himself so "those the Father has given Him" will also be sanctified ... and in verse 24 he establishes that he further is speaking not only of the immediate disciples but of others who the Father has "given him" who hear their word. This exegetically demonstrates the truth of particular redemption, especially since Jesus is praying for all those the Father has given him just prior to going to the cross to sanctify them.

----------------

What Does it Mean?

The term “limited atonement,” in its broadest sense, simply means the view that the atonement Christ provided for sins is in some way limited from the greatest possible extent it could have in theory; however, virtually every theologian believes in an atonement which is limited in some manner – all except those who believe that every person who ever lived will be finally saved and glorified. So in reality, it is an unhelpful and misleading term. In common parlance, however, it is a term used to describe the Calvinistic belief that Christ's atonement was fully effective to accomplish its design of redemption for all those for whom it was intended; but its intention was limited to the elect. This point of view is in opposition to what is commonly called “unlimited atonement,” which teaches that the intention of Christ's death was to provide redemption for everyone in the same way without exception; but the efficacy of his redemptive act is limited in its power to ensure everyone's final salvation. Christ's death, in other words, provided everything necessary for anyone's salvation besides the one conditional element of faith; but this faith was not provided by his death for anyone at all.

More Scriptural Support

The scriptural passages in support of the Calvinistic variety of limited atonement are numerous and varied: from the beginning, the bible teaches that God has always had a definite intention to redeem a certain people and not to redeem others (e.g. 1Ch 17:20-21; Mat 22:14; 1Pe 2:8-9: Ezek 36); and consistently, the bible portrays Jesus as offering himself up and likewise interceding for these people in particular, whom the Father has chosen and given to him ( Isa 53:10-11; Mat 1:21; Joh 6:35-40; 10:3-4, 11, 14-15, 17; Acts 20:28; Eph 5:25; Joh 17:1-2; 6-12; 20-21; 24-26; Rom 8:34). So the question "For whom did Christ die?" is answered by "the ones whom He represented" in his high priestly prayer in John chapter 17. Furthermore, the bible speaks of Christ's death as fully effective in securing justification ( Isa 53:11; Rom. 8:34), redemption and cleansing ( Eph 5:25-27; Tit 2:14), propitiation (that is, the complete satisfaction of the Father's wrath; 1 Jn 2:2; 4:10), and resurrection to new life ( 2Co 5:14-15). The bible does not teach that Jesus' death made these things possible, but that it actually secured these things. The bible also teaches quite clearly that the death of Jesus provided the very faith necessary to apprehend the eternal blessings of the covenant. Jesus died in order to establish the New Covenant (Mt. 26:26-29, etc.); the New Covenant in Christ promised faith, repentance and knowledge of God (Jer. 31:33-34, Ez. 36:26-27, etc.); therefore, Jesus died in order to provide faith, repentance, and knowledge of God, as the fulfillment of a unilateral promise. In other words, the internal call and the atonement are coextensive, but the external call and the atonement are not. The command to repent and believe is extended, but not the internal grace to comply. They are left to their own natures, and, as a result,, do not believe, because they comply with the decree to reprobate from their own natures. This means that Christ's death had a definite purpose which was intended for some and not others. His death effectively purchased faith; not all have faith; and so his death had an effective intent that was limited to certain persons. That faith itself is provided as a covenant gift is also taught in many other passages, such as Deu 30:6; Eze 11:19-20; 36:26-27; Joh 3:27; Phi 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Act 16:14; 18:27; Eph 2:8-10; Act 5:31; 11:18; 2Ti 2:25-26; 1Co 4:7.

A survey of all these biblical teachings makes it clear that the death of Jesus had a redemptive intent limited to the elect, and that it was fully sufficient to provide them with all things necessary for their eternal salvation, including faith and repentance. Although certain blessings may have been purchased for the non-elect at the cross, blessings of temporal forbearance, common grace, a free gospel offer, and so on, the redemptive blessings were intended only for the elect, and they were powerful enough to be fully accomplished in all of their intended subjects.

Therefore, we affirm that Christians are joined to Christ by the sovereign, merciful work of God Himself and all redemptive benefits come to us only because of our union with Christ. All these spiritual blessings flow from Christ (Eph 1:3) including regeneration, justification, sanctification, glorification --- and these benefits cannot be separated from the Benefactor.


What does the term “limited atonement” mean, and does the bible teach it?
Yep, that's exegetically and doctrinally sound, but it's going to be attacked for going against the current free will idolatry...

Why? They feel the need to "get God off the hook" for these "offensive" and "unfair" truths.
 
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Waiting on him

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I’ll say it again I’ve never met Mr Calvin and don’t need his opinion. Religion always puts self at the center. Consider the widow with the two mites, religion says ooooh if only I had this faith to give all

I see in the previous chapter Jesus states religion devowers widows houses this is why he says I’m bringing it all down every high thing that exhaults it’s self above God. Pure religion is to visit widows(those without a husband/ those without a father) meaning those without God.
 

Waiting on him

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I see in the previous chapter Jesus states religion devowers widows houses this is why he says I’m bringing it all down every high thing that exhaults it’s self above God. Pure religion is to visit widows(those without a husband/ those without a father) meaning those without God.
This can also be seen in the separating of the sheep and goats
 

CoreIssue

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Because truth is truth, regardless of your feelings or need to feel in power over your conversion. Why do Arminians want to be the ones to save themselves so badly?

Not an answer.

Why are the Calvinist trying to prove their claims if we have no freewill to choose?
 

Mjh29

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Don't compound your error with more DECEPTION. This is called wresting or twisting the Scriptures.

Obvious John was not writing about an ordered system. Why did you fail to show that kosmos means all the inhabitants of the world, and that is the correct meaning here?

Strong's Concordance
kosmos: order, the world
Original Word: κόσμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kosmos
Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos)
Definition: order, the world
Usage: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment.


Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2889: κόσμος

κόσμος, κόσμου, ὁ;
5. the inhabitants of the world:
θέατρονἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καίἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29...



Since Thayer's refers to John 1:29, lets turn to that and see that you are promoting a FALSE DOCTRINE, and this verse confirms what is stated in 1 John 4:14.

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

So, let me get this straight;

~ There are multiple different translations of the word, all saying creation, universe, ect. but you say that it can only be the 1 single definition that means people. So out of the 4 different translations, I have 3 and you have 1, and your 1 trumps my 3?
~ The other 4 Thayer's definitions before your 5th might disagree.
 
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Mjh29

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Not an answer.

Why are the Calvinist trying to prove their claims if we have no freewill to choose?

Because the Arminian view goes against not only the Scriptures, but logic. Since you can't seem to respond the Scriptures we give you, perhaps logic will work.

The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for either:

1) All the sins of all men;

2) All the sins of some men; or

3) Some of the sins of all men.

In which case it may be said:

1) If the last be true all men have some sins to answer for, and so none are saved;

2) That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth;

3) But if the first is the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins? You answer, Because of unbelief. I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!
 

amadeus

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“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” (1 Timothy 1:9–10) (KJV 1900)

“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” (Galatians 2:21) (KJV 1900)

The law saved no one. It only threatened death for disobedience and promised rewards for obedience. But these were only temporal physical benefits God used to control the wicked Jews. The Born Again among them were saved by grace. And being motivated by love, they did all the law demanded and far more.
Again you are arguing against something I did not say. You seemingly do not understand what I wrote. When you do and you respond to it, I hopefully will be able to speak to you about it.
 
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Dave L

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Again you are arguing against something I did not say. You seemingly do not understand what I wrote. When you do and you respond to it, I hopefully will be able to speak to you about it.
You were using OT law which cannot save as a formula for salvation.
 
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Dave L

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Why are the Calvinist trying to prove their claims if we have no freewill to choose?
People make choices every moment of the day. But Christ is not available on those terms. The only Christ the flesh will ever chose is a false one. God must give you a new heart before you can discern Christ in truth and have Holy Spirit generated faith in him.
 

CoreIssue

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Because the Arminian view goes against not only the Scriptures, but logic. Since you can't seem to respond the Scriptures we give you, perhaps logic will work.

The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for either:

1) All the sins of all men;

2) All the sins of some men; or

3) Some of the sins of all men.

In which case it may be said:

1) If the last be true all men have some sins to answer for, and so none are saved;

2) That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth;

3) But if the first is the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins? You answer, Because of unbelief. I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!

Still not a reason for trying to persuade others when there is no freewill to choose.
 

CoreIssue

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People make choices every moment of the day. But Christ is not available on those terms. The only Christ the flesh will ever chose is a false one. God must give you a new heart before you can discern Christ in truth and have Holy Spirit generated faith in him.

Still not a reason for trying to persuade others when there is no freewill to choose.
 

amadeus

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You were using OT law which cannot save as a formula for salvation.
Your habit of looking to the literal and arguing according to that as defined or described by men with their brains instead of looking to the Holy Spirit for direction is leading you astray.

Should we be focusing on salvation making it our first priority!
 
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Dave L

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Your habit of looking to the literal and arguing according to that as defined or described by men with their brains instead of looking to the Holy Spirit for direction is leading you astray.

Should we be focusing on salvation making it our first priority!
You are teaching salvation by works. This saves nobody.