BAPTISM

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The word baptism in the NT means immersion.
The word "Baptism" doesn't necessarily mean immersion - as I showed you.

The word "Adelphos" means "brother". Yet, it can be illustrated from the pages of Scripture that it ALSO means half-brother, step-brother, cousin, uncle, nephew, distant relation, fellow believer, etc.
 

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ERROR, there is only one PREACHER in the church of God and that him, God. when Peter preached on Pentecost it was God in him who gave peter the words to speak. we as ambassadors for christ speak not our own mind but the mind of he who sends us.

understand something, Christ is the ONLY Pastor in his church, for Pastoring is a gift and not an office held by men. and it's not the men (male or female) who speaks, but Christ himself speakth through them.

understand us now?.


WRONG, any person who places their trust in man is to build on sand. The Holy Spirit is the only teacher of the children of God. But most religious people do not read their Bible.

The story of religion is that so many want to be exalted over others in it so they can influence others for their own purposes.

In the past there were men who started a religion by claiming they speak a god's words. These men used their claimed position to get others to do as they wished. For example, in the islands, or South America, with a volcano they would be so revered that the people would have to offer up their children to be thrown into the volcano. The parents of the selected child could not refuse because those in the religion would kill them. This gave them power over others since they did not want there children selected.

The RCC did this very thing when they would blackmail Kings to give money or be thrown out of the church.

I don't trust in the ideas of men. I read God's word and let the Holy Spirit tell me what they mean. If a person places their trust (faith) in a man then they will only see what that man sees which may be governed by his pride. You, of course, will say that man is me. But the thing I preach is the work of God (Jesus) on the cross, not on man's works in a religion. I also try to show the scripture teachings IN CONTEXT.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What the RCC did and other men did, no matter to us. neither do we trust the ideas of men. but, Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 7:13 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Matthew 7:17 "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Matthew 7:18 "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 7:19 "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Matthew 7:20 "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them".
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
WRONG, any person who places their trust in man is to build on sand. The Holy Spirit is the only teacher of the children of God. But most religious people do not read their Bible.

The story of religion is that so many want to be exalted over others in it so they can influence others for their own purposes.

In the past there were men who started a religion by claiming they speak a god's words. These men used their claimed position to get others to do as they wished. For example, in the islands, or South America, with a volcano they would be so revered that the people would have to offer up their children to be thrown into the volcano. The parents of the selected child could not refuse because those in the religion would kill them. This gave them power over others since they did not want there children selected.

The RCC did this very thing when they would blackmail Kings to give money or be thrown out of the church.
WRONG.
God appointed His CHURCH to teach all nations . . .

Matt. 20:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING them to obey everything I have commanded you.

The Holy Spirit works through His CHURCH. He doesn't teach the individual apart or separated from the Church.
 

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ERROR, there is only one PREACHER in the church of God and that him, God. when Peter preached on Pentecost it was God in him who gave peter the words to speak. we as ambassadors for christ speak not our own mind but the mind of he who sends us.

understand something, Christ is the ONLY Pastor in his church, for Pastoring is a gift and not an office held by men. and it's not the men (male or female) who speaks, but Christ himself speakth through them.

understand us now?.

I see what you are saying but if you trust in man you will trust in any man that you think is right.

Ps 118:8-9
8 It is better to trust in the Lord Than to put confidence in man.
9 It is better to trust in the Lord Than to put confidence in princes.
NKJV

Prov 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
NKJV

As for me I will place my trust in Jesus and His work on the cross. Men can be deceitful. You can see that in the Pharisees as they condemned Jesus to death. Are you trying to tell me that Pastors in a man ran church can't be deceitful? I am not that stupid.
 

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
WRONG.
God appointed His CHURCH to teach all nations . . .

Matt. 20:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING them to obey everything I have commanded you.

The Holy Spirit works through His CHURCH. He doesn't teach the individual apart or separated from the Church.


WRONG.

Matt 23:10
10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.
NKJV

Luke 12:12
12 For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."
NKJV

John 14:26
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
NKJV
 
  • Like
Reactions: Waiting on him

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I see what you are saying but if you trust in man you will trust in any man that you think is right.
no need to think, as said, read your bibles. and go to God in prayer for KNOWLEDGE, and UNDERSTANDING. for if any man LACK WISDOM, let him ask, but in Faith.
Prov 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
NKJV
100%
Are you trying to tell me that Pastors in a man ran church can't be deceitful? I am not that stupid.
did we say that? ... no.
 

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What the RCC did and other men did, no matter to us. neither do we trust the ideas of men. but, Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 7:13 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Matthew 7:17 "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Matthew 7:18 "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 7:19 "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Matthew 7:20 "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them".

Works are not fruits.

Fruits of the Spirits:

Gal 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
NKJV

We walk in faith and that is walking in the Spirit.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
WRONG.

Matt 23:10
10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.
NKJV

Luke 12:12
12 For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."
NKJV

John 14:26
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
NKJV
Spoken like the Scripturally-bankrupt person you are.
You simply don't understand the CONTEXT of Matt. 23:10, so allow me to educate you . . .

Jesus was chiding the Pharisees who placed themselves ABOVE everybody as Fathers and Teachers.
Jesus wasn't condemning their ROLES as spiritual Fathers and Teachers. He was condemning their arrogance and self-importance about it.

Consider the following passages of Scripture:
- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
- St. Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
- St. Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
- "For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
- "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).
- "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).
- "God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28).

STUDY your Bible and learn what it means instead of simply quoting it . . .
 

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
no need to think, as said, read your bibles. and go to God in prayer for KNOWLEDGE, and UNDERSTANDING. for if any man LACK WISDOM, let him ask, but in Faith.

100%

did we say that? ... no.

You ought to read what you say.
WRONG.
God appointed His CHURCH to teach all nations . . .

Matt. 20:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING them to obey everything I have commanded you.

The Holy Spirit works through His CHURCH. He doesn't teach the individual apart or separated from the Church.

The church is not a physical organisation ran by sinful men.

Christian = A person who is personally trusting that God loves him and sent his son, Jesus Christ, into the world to die on a cross for his/her sins. A person that trusts God to save and keep him/her just as Abraham did. (Read Romans 4:1 8) A Christian is a person that has been reborn (filled) with God's Holy Spirit by God Himself. Jesus describes a true Christian in John 3:7 & 8; 7: Do not marvel that I said to you, 'you must be born again.' 8. The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit

Church = The Church is a "Spiritual Church" (spiritual house 1 Peter 2:4 5) (Mark 14:58) (Acts 17:23 25) (2 Cor. 5:1) (Heb 9:11 and 24) made up of Christians. Since it consists of 'born again Christians' (see above) the true Church is as Jesus described a born again Christian in John 3:8.
 

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Spoken like the Scripturally-bankrupt person you are.
You simply don't understand the CONTEXT of Matt. 23:10, so allow me to educate you . . .

Jesus was chiding the Pharisees who placed themselves ABOVE everybody as Fathers and Teachers.
Jesus wasn't condemning their ROLES as spiritual Fathers and Teachers. He was condemning their arrogance and self-importance about it.

Consider the following passages of Scripture:
- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
- St. Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
- St. Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
- "For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
- "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).
- "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).
- "God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28).

STUDY your Bible and learn what it means instead of simply quoting it . . .


You are just like the Pharisees who had Jesus killed. You just can't resist saying I am Scripturally-bankrupt. Perhaps you should look into a mirrow.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Works are not fruits.

Fruits of the Spirits:

Gal 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
NKJV

We walk in faith and that is walking in the Spirit.
Fruit is the result of the Spirit work in us, John 15.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The church is not a physical organisation ran by sinful men.

Christian = A person who is personally trusting that God loves him and sent his son, Jesus Christ, into the world to die on a cross for his/her sins. A person that trusts God to save and keep him/her just as Abraham did. (Read Romans 4:1 8) A Christian is a person that has been reborn (filled) with God's Holy Spirit by God Himself. Jesus describes a true Christian in John 3:7 & 8; 7: Do not marvel that I said to you, 'you must be born again.' 8. The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit

Church = The Church is a "Spiritual Church" (spiritual house 1 Peter 2:4 5) (Mark 14:58) (Acts 17:23 25) (2 Cor. 5:1) (Heb 9:11 and 24) made up of Christians. Since it consists of 'born again Christians' (see above) the true Church is as Jesus described a born again Christian in John 3:8.
WRONG.

The Church is a VISIBLE entity of BAPTIZED followers of Christ (Matt. 28:19, Mark 6:16, John 3:5, Acts 2:38). It is the LIGHT of the world - a CITY on a HILL that cannot be hidden (Matt. 5:14-16).
The Church is made up of flawed, sinful men in need of God's grace with Christ as its Head (Col. 1:18).

It is NOT as you and others erroneously believe - an "invisible" body of believers.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are just like the Pharisees who had Jesus killed. You just can't resist saying I am Scripturally-bankrupt. Perhaps you should look into a mirrow.
And that is a non-answer.
How about actually addressing the Scriptural evidence I presented, hmmmmm??
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Nor is there anything <in the gospels> about being "IN CHRIST" as the body of Christ.

Jhn 14:20, At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Works are not fruits.

Tit 3:14, And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

The Church is made up of flawed, sinful men in need of God's grace with Christ as its Head (Col. 1:18).

It is NOT as you and others erroneously believe - an "invisible" body of believers.

Yes, those who confess Jesus as their Lord make up the true church, and this body of believers will be evident as believers; you cannot be an incognito Christian; if you are true, there will come a moment when someone asks you why you are different and you will be called upon to either confess or deny Christ as the reason why you are different.

What we mean by the church being an invisible body is that there may be some who claim to be in the church who do not have a living and saving faith in Jesus Christ. These may be in the church "visibly", that is, they appear to be Christians because that is their profession; but "invisibly" that is, behind the scenes, they are not Christians at all, because they don't really believe.

People claim to be Christians when they are really not for a variety of reasons. I think that the primary reason is that they feel that if they say they are a Christian, people will not attempt to convert them to Christianity. So they say they are Christians to get people off their backs. Some others, feel that there is a certain prestige in being called a Christian, because of the moral superiority of the faith to other religions. Also, there is jailhouse Christianity. And there may be other reasons also.

The point being that there are those who claim to be in Christ who are not really saved. And these are "visibly" in the church, but not "invisibly".

So, with the Catholic Church, the majority of them may be visibly in the church as an organization; but unless they have a living and saving faith in Jesus, they are Christians in name only and are not a part of the true church. In other words, religion doesn't cut it to identify you as a true Christian.

Also, Colossians 1:18 doesn't teach that those who are in the true church are flawed and sinful (although other verses might).
 
Last edited:

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, those who confess Jesus as their Lord make up the true church, and this body of believers will be evident as believers; you cannot be an incognito Christian; if you are true, there will come a moment when someone asks you why you are different and you will be called upon to either confess or deny Christ as the reason why you are different.

What we mean by the church being an invisible body is that there may be some who claim to be in the church who do not have a living and saving faith in Jesus Christ. These may be in the church "visibly", that is, they appear to be Christians because that is their profession; but "invisibly" that is, behind the scenes, they are not Christians at all, because they don't really believe.

People claim to be Christians when they are really not for a variety of reasons. I think that the primary reason is that they feel that if they say they are a Christian, people will not attempt to convert them to Christianity. So they say they are Christians to get people off their backs. Some others, feel that there is a certain prestige in being called a Christian, because of the moral superiority of the faith to other religions. Also, there is jailhouse Christianity. And there may be other reasons also.

The point being that there are those who claim to be in Christ who are not really saved. And these are "visibly" in the church, but not "invisibly".

So, with the Catholic Church, the majority of them may be visibly in the church as an organization; but unless they have a living and saving faith in Jesus, they are Christians in name only and are not a part of the true church. In other words, religion doesn't cut it to identify you as a true Christian.
I agree with your first point in RED - and I understand what you mean.
However - the rest of your post as encapsulated by the other points in RED are more problematic.

As for being "saved" - it is a process, not a one time, slam-dunk event. The Scriptures are clear about this fact.
Whereas, the Bible says that I am initially saved when I come to faith - it ALSO says that I am BEING saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14) and that I WILL BE saved (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).

Finally - you single out the Catholic Church as being a visible organization in which NOT all are "saved".
This is true for all Protestant factions as well - NOT just the Catholic Church.