Oath on Bible Refused by Congressman

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Christina

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Heres A News storyKeith Ellison, who will become the first Muslim member of Congress next month, has offended some conservatives with his plan to use a Koran during his ceremonial swearing-in. The decision by Ellison, a Democrat, to use Islam's holy book for the ceremony instead of a Bible triggered an angry column by Dennis Prager on the Web site Townhall.com this week. Prager headlined the post, "America, Not Keith Ellison, decides what book a congressman takes his oath on." He argued that using the Koran for the ceremony "undermines American civilization." "Insofar as a member of Congress taking an oath to serve America and uphold its values is concerned, America is interested in only one book, the Bible," he wrote. "If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don't serve in Congress."
 

Bope

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Heres A News storyKeith Ellison, who will become the first Muslim member of Congress next month, has offended some conservatives with his plan to use a Koran during his ceremonial swearing-in. The decision by Ellison, a Democrat, to use Islam's holy book for the ceremony instead of a Bible triggered an angry column by Dennis Prager on the Web site Townhall.com this week. Prager headlined the post, "America, Not Keith Ellison, decides what book a congressman takes his oath on." He argued that using the Koran for the ceremony "undermines American civilization." "Insofar as a member of Congress taking an oath to serve America and uphold its values is concerned, America is interested in only one book, the Bible," he wrote. "If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don't serve in Congress."
Aww, he is throwing a fit.
rolleyes.gif
 

Bope

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Bope and Bernie Sorry guys but you have both missed the entire point its not a religious matter its not a political matter its just a promise to uphold the office he ran for the question is WHY dosen't he want to promise on somthing he claims to believe in.
Ugh, because he wants to use a Koran, and that's where his beliefs are. I answered this several times in several different ways.I am thinking some people are angry because he happens to be Muslim, and people are phobic of them. "He is using a Koran... oh noes!"
 

ROS777

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I am thinking some people are angry because he happens to be Muslim, and people are phobic of them. "He is using a Koran... oh noes!"
I was going to sit this one out until I saw the word ***phobic** then I saw red.I have had it up to here with the political correctness crap!!!First of all, that is your morality, not mine. Political correctness is a way to silence free speech. I am so-called !!!phobic!!! of muslims and proud of it.So don't vote for me if I run for office
smile.gif
but it's about time that those that don't believe in PC stand up and be proud of it and ignore the name calling from the liberals.PS. my disclaimer will follow- the disclaimer that says not all muslims everywhere are bad people, just those that are truly bad--happy?
 

BernieEOD

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Heres A News storyKeith Ellison, who will become the first Muslim member of Congress next month, has offended some conservatives with his plan to use a Koran during his ceremonial swearing-in. The decision by Ellison, a Democrat, to use Islam's holy book for the ceremony instead of a Bible triggered an angry column by Dennis Prager on the Web site Townhall.com this week. Prager headlined the post, "America, Not Keith Ellison, decides what book a congressman takes his oath on." He argued that using the Koran for the ceremony "undermines American civilization." "Insofar as a member of Congress taking an oath to serve America and uphold its values is concerned, America is interested in only one book, the Bible," he wrote. "If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don't serve in Congress."
There is no law, rule, or regulation requiring that one take an oath on the Bible. To pass one would fly in the face of the 1st Amendment. So legally, there are no grounds for disqualifying him from office.Biblicaly there ore no grounds either. 1) There is no verse in the Bible calling for such an act. Jesus even went so far as to teach against swearing an oath but simply make your "Yes" mean yes and your "No" mean no.2) It is not for us to regulate the conduct of unbelievers. It is for us to bring more and more people into the fold. Once in the fold, we can hold them acountable to Church Discipline. If one rejects the Biblically correct rebuke of his / her fellow believers, then that person is not really a believer. Nowhere are we to put a gun to peoples head (And any law / regulation IS in fact a gun to ones head) and force them to conply with Biblical principles.3) He ran as a Muslim and was elected as a Muslim. Any problem is between him and those who elected him. If this is not what those who elected him want, then it is their right to recall him. As long as his election stands, we are in no position to force him to go through a motion that due to his faith, would be meaningless.
 

BernieEOD

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I was going to sit this one out until I saw the word ***phobic** then I saw red.I have had it up to here with the political correctness crap!!!First of all, that is your morality, not mine. Political correctness is a way to silence free speech. I am so-called !!!phobic!!! of muslims and proud of it.So don't vote for me if I run for office
smile.gif
but it's about time that those that don't believe in PC stand up and be proud of it and ignore the name calling from the liberals.PS. my disclaimer will follow- the disclaimer that says not all muslims everywhere are bad people, just those that are truly bad--happy?
"Phobic" means fear. If you fear Islam, socialism, or anyother human instittion then you are a little weak in your faith. Nowhere in the Gospel are we commanded to be against anything or phobic of something. We are commanded to preach the Gospel. There is no gospel of bombs & bullets calling for us to bomb anybody into submission. There is no Gospel message calling for us to sick our government upon unbelievers or other religions. To do so shows little faith. God does not need any nation and its massive arsenal of wonder weapons to protect the Gospel. Quite to the contrary, God allows arrogant nation to rise up and challenges them to try to destroy his word. He then stikes dpwn these arrogant superpowers, eithe by allowing tem to collapse from within ala Romans:1, 18-36. Or he strikes them down with weaker nations who, by any and all practical military doctrine, should never had a chance to win. The so called "Church" here in America does not have a very good record. The divorce rate, abortion rate, teen pregnancy rate, drug abuse rate, and just about all of the other vices of the world are little if any different than within the fold of our Churches as they are among unbelievers. As such, we are in no position to talk about how "Good we are" and "How evil they are". The Gospel itself does not allow for it. A Christian is noting more than one convicted criminal on death row showing another how to apply for a pardon.
 

Bope

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There is no law, rule, or regulation requiring that one take an oath on the Bible. To pass one would fly in the face of the 1st Amendment. So legally, there are no grounds for disqualifying him from office.Biblicaly there ore no grounds either. 1) There is no verse in the Bible calling for such an act. Jesus even went so far as to teach against swearing an oath but simply make your "Yes" mean yes and your "No" mean no.2) It is not for us to regulate the conduct of unbelievers. It is for us to bring more and more people into the fold. Once in the fold, we can hold them acountable to Church Discipline. If one rejects the Biblically correct rebuke of his / her fellow believers, then that person is not really a believer. Nowhere are we to put a gun to peoples head (And any law / regulation IS in fact a gun to ones head) and force them to conply with Biblical principles.3) He ran as a Muslim and was elected as a Muslim. Any problem is between him and those who elected him. If this is not what those who elected him want, then it is their right to recall him. As long as his election stands, we are in no position to force him to go through a motion that due to his faith, would be meaningless.
Well, the piece quoted was an opinion, and everybody is entitled to one to be fair.
 

Bope

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"Phobic" means fear. If you fear Islam, socialism, or anyother human instittion then you are a little weak in your faith. Nowhere in the Gospel are we commanded to be against anything or phobic of something. We are commanded to preach the Gospel. There is no gospel of bombs & bullets calling for us to bomb anybody into submission. There is no Gospel message calling for us to sick our government upon unbelievers or other religions. To do so shows little faith. God does not need any nation and its massive arsenal of wonder weapons to protect the Gospel. Quite to the contrary, God allows arrogant nation to rise up and challenges them to try to destroy his word. He then stikes dpwn these arrogant superpowers, eithe by allowing tem to collapse from within ala Romans:1, 18-36. Or he strikes them down with weaker nations who, by any and all practical military doctrine, should never had a chance to win. The so called "Church" here in America does not have a very good record. The divorce rate, abortion rate, teen pregnancy rate, drug abuse rate, and just about all of the other vices of the world are little if any different than within the fold of our Churches as they are among unbelievers. As such, we are in no position to talk about how "Good we are" and "How evil they are". The Gospel itself does not allow for it. A Christian is noting more than one convicted criminal on death row showing another how to apply for a pardon.
I have to disgaree with some parts of this, especially the "be against anything" part. Jesus did condemn things all the time, and did point out the shortcomings of people and nations. He made it very clear in many passages.See, what people do as a nation, and what people do as a religion are seperate things, and in this country, there is a seperation of church and state. The core of the debate here is, some people believe the seperation of those elements make things worse instead of better. Proponents of seperation argue seperation leaves religion out, and proponents believe seperation of church and state avoid things like this. One little problem. Where is the line drawn?
 

BernieEOD

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I have to disgaree with some parts of this, especially the "be against anything" part. Jesus did condemn things all the time, and did point out the shortcomings of people and nations. He made it very clear in many passages.See, what people do as a nation, and what people do as a religion are seperate things, and in this country, there is a seperation of church and state. The core of the debate here is, some people believe the seperation of those elements make things worse instead of better. Proponents of seperation argue seperation leaves religion out, and proponents believe seperation of church and state avoid things like this. One little problem. Where is the line drawn?
Wrong answer! The faith of the people is the policy of the state! A nation that aborts 1.2 million babies a year is not a Christian nation! You cannot separate the two! A nation that is seriously debating the redefinition of marriage is not Christian! It is overcome with unbelievers! When the debate in governent is to declare right what God declares wrong, that nation has too many unbelievers! Even you hatred of Islam is based on Islam enforcing morality. Thus, our "War on terror" has become a war for baby killing and sodomy.
 

Bope

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Wrong answer! The faith of the people is the policy of the state! A nation that aborts 1.2 million babies a year is not a Christian nation! You cannot separate the two! A nation that is seriously debating the redefinition of marriage is not Christian! It is overcome with unbelievers! When the debate in governent is to declare right what God declares wrong, that nation has too many unbelievers! Even you hatred of Islam is based on Islam enforcing morality. Thus, our "War on terror" has become a war for baby killing and sodomy.
Of course it is the wrong answer because we disagree. ...and I still disagree, because despite belief, unbelief or whatever, things still happen regardless. Also, you missed my point. Of course it is not a Christian nation. It is a nation filled with all sorts of beliefs including Christianity. Just some people do not like the idea. For one to say "This is what you should use" is silly at best.
 

Christina

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Even you hatred of Islam is based on Islam enforcing morality. Thus, our "War on terror" has become a war for baby killing and sodomy.{quote}Just to set the record straight I don't hate Islam I hate the Radicals that are hijacking the religion under the name of being Islam. I hate the cancer of hate that has infected their religion I hate terriosts hiding behind religion to justify their killing. just because you refuse to look at any proof so you can stay in your safe zone with your preconcieved outdated ideas.No need answering I already know what you are going to say Its America thats the cancer we are the baby killers and the terriost blah, blah, blah heard it all before a thousand times.You just cant get it thru your head that there may be two wrongs going on here and two wrongs don't make a right.You hide your head in the sand and pretend America and its people are the only wrong in the world.good day to ya Bernie
 

Bope

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Even you hatred of Islam is based on Islam enforcing morality. Thus, our "War on terror" has become a war for baby killing and sodomy.{quote}Just to set the record straight I don't hate Islam I hate the Radicals that are hijacking the religion under the name of being Islam. I hate the cancer of hate that has infected their religion I hate terriosts hiding behind religion to justify their killing. just because you refuse to look at any proof so you can stay in your safe zone with your preconcieved outdated ideas.No need answering I already know what you are going to say Its America thats the cancer we are the baby killers and the terriost blah, blah, blah heard it all before a thousand times.You just cant get it thru your head that there may be two wrongs going on here and two wrongs don't make a right.You hide your head in the sand and pretend America and its people are the only wrong in the world.good day to ya Bernie
See, the moderate vs. the radical muslim is hard to distinguish, and that is another thing that is causing a lot of strife. In this war, the enemy does not have a flag, a piece of land to defend and no clear boundries. The ones that want to kill blend in with the innocent.That is a scary thing...
 

Christina

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You got that right Bope wether you are a bible beleiver or not the world has an enemy like it has never faced before and moderate Muslims are as much in danger as the rest of the world I fear that because of human nature to just want to mind their own affairs and governments and Industries preocupation with money to many are not going to realize the danger going on till its to late we live in scary times Glad I have my faith wish you shared in itbut hey theres a time and a season for all things
 

BernieEOD

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Even you hatred of Islam is based on Islam enforcing morality. Thus, our "War on terror" has become a war for baby killing and sodomy.{quote}Just to set the record straight I don't hate Islam I hate the Radicals that are hijacking the religion under the name of being Islam. I hate the cancer of hate that has infected their religion I hate terriosts hiding behind religion to justify their killing. just because you refuse to look at any proof so you can stay in your safe zone with your preconcieved outdated ideas.No need answering I already know what you are going to say Its America thats the cancer we are the baby killers and the terriost blah, blah, blah heard it all before a thousand times.You just cant get it thru your head that there may be two wrongs going on here and two wrongs don't make a right.You hide your head in the sand and pretend America and its people are the only wrong in the world.good day to ya Bernie
1) Our own abortion clinics kill mare of our babies than any of "Those evil Islamic Terrorists.2) Our own street gangs shoot more of us than any of them3) Our own drug dealers poison more of us than anybody's chemical weapons4) Our own sexual imorality infects more of us than anybody's biological weapons.6) When it comes to killing innocent civilians, the USAF wins hands down.The USAF has carpet bombed, fire bombed, atomic bombed, and cluster bombed more civlians than all of the world so called terrorist organizations combined.As you talk of "Those evil people" you answer is "Burn you Korans or we bomb you! Unfortunately, your opostate version of the gospel leads to high crime, rampant sexual imorality, rebelious teens and all the other vices we are overcome with. Their fundamantralism might not be the answer to our problems, but we are not going to fix anything by bombing them into out baby killing and butt slamming.
 

BernieEOD

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You got that right Bope wether you are a bible beleiver or not the world has an enemy like it has never faced before and moderate Muslims are as much in danger as the rest of the world I fear that because of human nature to just want to mind their own affairs and governments and Industries preocupation with money to many are not going to realize the danger going on till its to late we live in scary times Glad I have my faith wish you shared in itbut hey theres a time and a season for all things
Since we ahve the wonder weapons, it is we who have the tactical advantage. The Church has survived much worse. Nero for one, the opostate church of the dark ages for another. The Gospel does not stand on us and our wonder weapons nor does it stand on us bombing Islamic countries into our baby killing and butt slamming. If we need to bomb them, it is a demonstration of our lack of faith.There is no gospel of bombs & bullets.
 

BernieEOD

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See, the moderate vs. the radical muslim is hard to distinguish, and that is another thing that is causing a lot of strife. In this war, the enemy does not have a flag, a piece of land to defend and no clear boundries. The ones that want to kill blend in with the innocent.That is a scary thing...
One who is in Christ should have no fear. It should not be possible to terrorise a Christian with the threat of physical violence. A Christian should not place ones faith in a corrupt self serving military industrial complex either.
 

BernieEOD

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You don't see a problem, because you're not a Christian. Our country was founded on Christian principals not on the Koran.The Constitution strickly forbids the enforcement of such religion in politics. The Gospel does not allow for us to force people to swear under something they do not believe in. For that matter, it calls for us not to swear at all but to simply make our yes mean yes and our no mean no. The Koran believes in converting the people of the world any which way they can, including violence.And we are currently bombing people to abopt our opostate version of the gospel where butt slamming and baby killing is the norm.When a public servant put his/her hand on the Bible they are swearing to our Christian God and our God is living and active and will punish the politicians that lie to the people.Since this nation is nowhere near as Christian as it claims, placing ones hand on a Bible is a meaningless gesture. The Koran? I don't know about their god--I'm not even sure he's out there and in any position to do anything.Since we at best are salt without saltiness, as Billy Graham once proclaimed "If God does not punish America, he owes Soddom an appology."Forcing one to place his hand on a Bible he does not believe in is unconstituional and unBiblical.Now here's this for you. If it's not a problem, as you state, then it shouldn't be a problem for this character to put his hand on the Bible and swear an oath. That is........if it truly isn't a problem, as you say....
Our problem comes from within. Our Churches have become too opostate when the abortion rate, divorce rate, teen pregnancy rate, and other vices that plague our nation are no different inside the Chruch than those of unbelievers. If Islam is gaining ground within our nation, it is because the Church has become weak and ineffective.
 

Christina

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1) Our own abortion clinics kill mare of our babies than any of "Those evil Islamic Terrorists.2) Our own street gangs shoot more of us than any of them3) Our own drug dealers poison more of us than anybody's chemical weapons4) Our own sexual imorality infects more of us than anybody's biological weapons.6) When it comes to killing innocent civilians, the USAF wins hands down.The USAF has carpet bombed, fire bombed, atomic bombed, and cluster bombed more civlians than all of the world so called terrorist organizations combined.As you talk of "Those evil people" you answer is "Burn you Korans or we bomb you! Unfortunately, your opostate version of the gospel leads to high crime, rampant sexual imorality, rebelious teens and all the other vices we are overcome with. Their fundamantralism might not be the answer to our problems, but we are not going to fix anything by bombing them into out baby killing and butt slamming.
Wrong on all accounts but you will never know it till its to lateyou refuse to look at any evidence to the contrary so this is simply your opinion which is based on only the things you choose to use back up your ideas you refuse to look at the facts on the other side anyone that refuses to give both sides equal weight before making a decision is uneducated in the matter and therefore any debate with that person is useless.
 

BernieEOD

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Wrong on all accounts but you will never know it till its to lateyou refuse to look at any evidence to the contrary so this is simply your opinion which is based on only the things you choose to use back up your ideas you refuse to look at the facts on the other side anyone that refuses to give both sides equal weight before making a decision is uneducated in the matter and therefore any debate with that person is useless.
Too late for what? Am I supposed to believe that some guy dressed like lawrence of Arabia is about to kick in my door and force me to bow towards Mecca?
 

BernieEOD

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Wrong on all accounts but you will never know it till its to lateyou refuse to look at any evidence to the contrary so this is simply your opinion which is based on only the things you choose to use back up your ideas you refuse to look at the facts on the other side anyone that refuses to give both sides equal weight before making a decision is uneducated in the matter and therefore any debate with that person is useless.
You are saying that "Those evil Muslims" have killed more than 1.2 million American babies in the last year? That :Those evil Muslims: Have shot more Americans than our own street gangs in the last year?That "Those evil Muslims have killed more people than the fire bombing of Dresdyn, Colonge, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki?I believe the facts speak for themselves.Once again, Christians are not supposed to be terrified of physical death nor are we to cower behind some military industrial complex.
 
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