Calvinism is a Cult

Laish said:

Ok your links...

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Sausage?
Cuff?
Golf?
Abraham?
Chain?

Laish said:

Ok your links are to search results on a search engine. Proves what ? Search is Christianity a cult you can get tons of results as well proves nothing as for interlinear traditions they use only what the translator used you don’t get a in-depth view of the words meaning .
Still looking for your definition of cult and who this large group of folks that believe Calvinism is a cult are .
Blessings
Bill

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Yes, he still needs to provide proof. Doing a Google search, then providing a link to the search page is evidence of nothing. It is a deceitful and underhanded attempt to appear as if he provided proof because he gave "a link." It is just as absurd as justbyfaith determining John 3:16 refutes the Doctrines of Grace because he saw a book title about it, yet hasn't read it himself.

But this is the highest level of acumen, study, knowledge, scholarliness and integrity these have used in their argumentation. It is sad to witness. There has not been one Scripture given in a context that offers any support to their beliefs.

I saw on the profile page of CoreIssue he states he is a Mayor. I would think being a professing Christian and an alleged Mayor, State Arbitrator, and Councilman would necessitate some integrity.

But anyhow...

My proposal still stands: CoreIssue, my challenge to you is go line by line in the teachings and Confessions with the Scripture provided, or pick one of them, and let's debate the actual words and Scriptures given so that you are given opportunity to prove your claims which hasn't happened up to this point. Please provide some facts or there will be no other course than to see your OP and responses as simple buffoonery.

We've given you ample time to prove your claims, and the ones you say are proof are unfortunately mere bogus attempts to make yourself appear credible.

Laish said:

Who did Calvin hob knob with ? I have read a bit on his life I know he was not just preaching on Sunday he preached 7 days a week. The early Reformed Churches were open for services 7 days a week . I also know he had many Catholic aquatints his belief that even though they were heavily burdened by false dogma there was still the possibility of salvation.
As for priests and the type Calvin did believed they were from the pits of hell .
Not being argumentative just wondering. Always looking to see where things come from .
Blessings
Bill

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Well the whole incident with Michael Servetus is a prime example . Every indication is that he turned him over to the inquisition and he was burned at the stake. Furthermore you kind of answered the question yourself by noting he had Catholic acquaintances, and many were Church officials. People tend to think he was against the Catholic Church, but he wasn't totally against it. He opposed some of its doctrines and was against the idea of a Pope being in charge. He did however support the Church overall.

FHII said:

Well the whole incident with Michael Servetus is a prime example . Every indication is that he turned him over to the inquisition and he was burned at the stake. Furthermore you kind of answered the question yourself by noting he had Catholic acquaintances, and many were Church officials. People tend to think he was against the Catholic Church, but he wasn't totally against it. He opposed some of its doctrines and was against the idea of a Pope being in charge. He did however support the Church overall.

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I know next to nothing about what truly transpired betwixt Calvin and Servetus. Truth be told, ‘historians’ on both sides know little, too.

But if Calvin had friends in the RCC, that’s not a spot on his garment. Read Paul’s writings and his love for his fellow Jews, even though they rejected the Christ, he pleaded for them to flee to the Christ. I’d venture to say Calvin tried to get his friends in the RCC to leave it.

I don't see any issue whatsoever if Calvin still acquainted himself with Catholics since it was concerning the hope for their salvation.

Let's say an anti-Calvinist did the same. Well, the person would be applauded in this context.

Preacher4Truth said:

I don't see any issue whatsoever if Calvin still acquainted himself with Catholics since it was concerning the hope for their salvation.

Let's say an anti-Calvinist did the same. Well, the person would be applauded in this context.

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Well, Calvin coughed once and was blamed for spreading TB.

SovereignGrace said:

I know next to nothing about what truly transpired betwixt Calvin and Servetus. Truth be told, ‘historians’ on both sides know little, too.

But if Calvin had friends in the RCC, that’s not a spot on his garment. Read Paul’s writings and his love for his fellow Jews, even though they rejected the Christ, he pleaded for them to flee to the Christ. I’d venture to say Calvin tried to get his friends in the RCC to leave it.

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He forewarned Servetus to not come to Geneva. Why? Because he knew if he did he would have to follow the laws of the day. Servetus knew the risk.

SovereignGrace said:

I know next to nothing about what truly transpired betwixt Calvin and Servetus. Truth be told, ‘historians’ on both sides know little, too.

But if Calvin had friends in the RCC, that’s not a spot on his garment. Read Paul’s writings and his love for his fellow Jews, even though they rejected the Christ, he pleaded for them to flee to the Christ. I’d venture to say Calvin tried to get his friends in the RCC to leave it.

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I would agree that we don't know everything that happened between Calvin and Servetus. There are biased opinions on both sides. However something did happen... It is reported that Calvin wrote [paraphrasing] that if Servetus showed up he would not let him leave town alive. Thats exactly what happened.

Calvin agreed with alot of Catholic doctrine and disagreed with alot as well. As I mentioned one of those disagreements was with Papal Authority. Therefore I stand by what I said: he would preach against the Pope while maintaining fellowship with those that supported the Pope. I find that a bit hypocritical, but I see the point you are making.

Preacher4Truth said:

He forewarned Servetus to not come to Geneva. Why? Because he knew if he did he would have to follow the laws of the day. Servetus knew the risk.

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"For what particular act of mine you accuse me of cruelty I am anxious to know. I myself know not that act, unless it be with reference to the death of your great master, Servetus. But that I myself earnestly entreated that he might not be put to death his judges themselves are witnesses, in the number of whom at that time two were his staunch favourers and defenders. But I have said quite enough about myself." Calvin's Calvinism Translated Henry Cole P-346

FHII said:

I would agree that we don't know everything that happened between Calvin and Servetus. There are biased opinions on both sides. However something did happen... It is reported that Calvin wrote [paraphrasing] that if Servetus showed up he would not let him leave town alive. Thats exactly what happened.

Calvin agreed with alot of Catholic doctrine and disagreed with alot as well. As I mentioned one of those disagreements was with Papal Authority. Therefore I stand by what I said: he would preach against the Pope while maintaining fellowship with those that supported the Pope. I find that a bit hypocritical, but I see the point you are making.

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Fellowshipping is not agreeing with them. No doubt Paul fellowshipped with many Jews who rejected the Christ. How else could he win them to Him? How else could Calvin have gotten them to leave the RCC?

SovereignGrace said:

Fellowshipping is not agreeing with them. No doubt Paul fellowshipped with many Jews who rejected the Christ. How else could he win them to Him? How else could Calvin have gotten them to leave the RCC?

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We are fellowshipping with others on this site that we do not agree with...

Dave L said:

"For what particular act of mine you accuse me of cruelty I am anxious to know. I myself know not that act, unless it be with reference to the death of your great master, Servetus. But that I myself earnestly entreated that he might not be put to death his judges themselves are witnesses, in the number of whom at that time two were his staunch favourers and defenders. But I have said quite enough about myself." Calvin's Calvinism Translated Henry Cole P-346

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Pesky facts. Why is it we have those who refuse facts, refuse context, and resort to underhanded and dishonest means to support their erroneous views? I'm amazed they are not convicted enough to the extent they repent and own it.

I left them in the other thread Calvinism is NOT a Cult because Jesus said to let the blind be leaders of the blind.

Mhj29, Sovereign Grace, Preacher4truth, and maybe a few others, are over there primarily, but may return here to purport their myths.

I do not know that I will continue to contend with them.

Last thing that happened over on the other thread was that I pointed out that Romans 10:9-10 shows that a person can have faith and not necessarily be saved (for believing is unto righteousness; and confession is made unto salvation); however, they did not even look up the verses but cited their own verses that they thought contradicted my statement.

So, I told them, that according to Galatians 1:6-9 (kjv), Romans 16:17 (kjv), and Proverbs 14:7 (kjv), the Lord is telling me to leave them alone.

Of course, wherever I am located, I will continue to preach human responsibility; however it is written in Jeremiah that it is not a good thing to sow among thorns.

CoreIssue said:

Interlinear gives the meaning for that specific use.

Lexicons dwell on root words with meanings not applicable to specific uses. Cults and false doctrine users use then to spin the meanings of verse.

Nephesh is an example where some support soul sleep or souls being eternal, not spirits.

Or son of God only referring to Christ.

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Sir it was a lexicon that James Strong used to make his concordance actually 4 of them were used .
Just because a cult used one dose not make it evil or of no use . .
As for the word nephesh I mentioned it because it is used often in the Hebrew. As for your use of the backhand remark about cults use of the word . Yea I get it if you can’t pound the facts make a big fuss and pound the table.
Note still waiting for your response to my first post. Links don’t cut it I asked for your work not some one else’s .
Bill

FHII said:

Well the whole incident with Michael Servetus is a prime example . Every indication is that he turned him over to the inquisition and he was burned at the stake. Furthermore you kind of answered the question yourself by noting he had Catholic acquaintances, and many were Church officials. People tend to think he was against the Catholic Church, but he wasn't totally against it. He opposed some of its doctrines and was against the idea of a Pope being in charge. He did however support the Church overall.

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The Servetus thing is weird. First the famous letter penned by Calvin that Servetus would not leave Geneva alive was written to Servetus telling him to stay away after Servetus challenged Calvin to a debate of sorts. Calvin wrote three such letters. Servetus shows up in Geneva after being escaping from incarceration in Vienna awaiting a death sentence for the denial of the Trinity. Calvin doesn’t run in to Servetus in the street somewhere. No Servetus shows up in the Church Calvin was preaching at .
In the front row right under the preachers pulpit. Note also the city council was there too it was not just Calvin that had him arrested .theres more but I think you get to what i mead by weird . As for many of Calvin’s friends being Catholic well as he got older they became fewer and for the most part nonexistent. Also not when he had those friends. Think about it anyone over 15 years old was a former catholic. The reformation was young also the city of Geneva was about 50/50 Catholic or Protestant. Geneva was a vassal state to a German city who’s name escapes me now . The city was Protestant so they of course installed a Protestant city council.it was this council that tried Servetus and the same council that once threw Calvin out of Geneva and the Geneva church . It’s really interesting history.
I hope that helps
Blessings
Bill

Laish said:

The Servetus thing is weird. First the famous letter penned by Calvin that Servetus would not leave Geneva alive was written to Servetus telling him to stay away after Servetus challenged Calvin to a debate of sorts. Calvin wrote three such letters. Servetus shows up in Geneva after being escaping from incarceration in Vienna awaiting a death sentence for the denial of the Trinity. Calvin doesn’t run in to Servetus in the street somewhere. No Servetus shows up in the Church Calvin was preaching at .
In the front row right under the preachers pulpit. Note also the city council was there too it was not just Calvin that had him arrested .theres more but I think you get to what i mead by weird . As for many of Calvin’s friends being Catholic well as he got older they became fewer and for the most part nonexistent. Also not when he had those friends. Think about it anyone over 15 years old was a former catholic. The reformation was young also the city of Geneva was about 50/50 Catholic or Protestant. Geneva was a vassal state to a German city who’s name escapes me now . The city was Protestant so they of course installed a Protestant city council.it was this council that tried Servetus and the same council that once threw Calvin out of Geneva and the Geneva church . It’s really interesting history.
I hope that helps
Blessings
Bill

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Did Calvin write that letter to Servetus? According to Wikipedia he wrote it to a French Protestant named William Farel. You said he wrote 3 letters and thats the first time I heard that but I am not surprised. I do recall somewhere that he warned Servetus to stay away.

Another interesting thing is while they were at odds about the Trinity, Sevetus wrote a critique of Calvin's "Institutes". Calvin was not pleased. I am not saying it was personal, because it seems Calvin was already fed up with him. But certainly this criticism didn't help

I do agree.... It is weird. As I try to read and research all sides of the story... I don't think we will ever know what really happened. I try to look at this from a Protestant and Catholic POV. And well.... You know how that goes.

Based on the evidence and yes, my own reasoning, i believe that Calvin had a hand in his death. And it wasn't the first time he had a hand in an inquisistion if the sources I have read are correct.

I see your point on his catholic friends. Duely noted and I agree. However, Servetus was turned over to a Catholic (a DDominican) according to one reference. It jyst seems to me he didn't want to let go of his Catholic connections.

The one thing I wish everyone realizes about Calvin is that he was more than just someone who believed in predestination. He did and I agree with him on that. He also believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary, no salvation outside the catholic Church (the little "c" in catholic is not an accident) and that grace is not a license to sin. Thus, by modern means... He may not have been a Calvinist himself.

Thanks for the conversation. Its been a while (about 5 years) since I visited the topic.

He I will talk some more about this tomorrow got to get some sleep . One thing though Servetus wasn’t turned over to Catholic authorities. By the time all this happened Calvin was a wanted man by Catholics he was under the same sentence of death for apostasy as Servetus except for his beliefs beliefs that the pope was the antichrist and the priesthood was not biblical.
More later I will get those book titles for you in a pm tomorrow
Blessings
Bill

justbyfaith said:

I left them in the other thread Calvinism is NOT a Cult because Jesus said to let the blind be leaders of the blind.

Mhj29, Sovereign Grace, Preacher4truth, and maybe a few others, are over there primarily, but may return here to purport their myths.

I do not know that I will continue to contend with them.

Last thing that happened over on the other thread was that I pointed out that Romans 10:9-10 shows that a person can have faith and not necessarily be saved (for believing is unto righteousness; and confession is made unto salvation); however, they did not even look up the verses but cited their own verses that they thought contradicted my statement.

So, I told them, that according to Galatians 1:6-9 (kjv), Romans 16:17 (kjv), and Proverbs 14:7 (kjv), the Lord is telling me to leave them alone.

Of course, wherever I am located, I will continue to preach human responsibility; however it is written in Jeremiah that it is not a good thing to sow among thorns.

Click to expand...

What you do not understand is how sinful people are to begin with. We are spiritually dead and unable to discern spiritual truth at any level. In this state we have only flesh faith. The kind of faith you have when you buy advertised products. And you buy an advertised Christ not able to discern or know the true one. It is always an idol bearing his name.

But; the New Birth changes all of this. “And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” (Deuteronomy 30:6) (KJV 1900)

And these hear the gospel and recognize the true Christ. And love God and hate sin. This results in holiness as a lifestyle.