The Kingdoms of the Beast

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Trekson

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This was first posted a couple of years ago but a conversation with a fellow forum member caused me to take a second look at it and expand it with information gained through further prayer and study.

Have you ever had a dream that sticks with you? You know it’s important and that God gave it to you but you don’t necessarily understand it fully. Well, that’s happened to me a couple of times lately. Let me share my last one. I was shown a map and on the map were seven mountains arranged in a semi-circle. (Rev. 17:9) The middle one was the largest and was called Mt. Olympus, which we know is on the eastern side of Greece and sort of overlooks the Middle East area.

In this election year (2016) we have two slogans, Hillary’s, “I’m with her” and Trump’s, “I’m with you”. There is a passage in Dan. 11:36-39 that I believe is talking about the a/c. “And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.”

I have always thought that this “strange god” could be technology. However, because of my dream I’m leaning a different way. Continuing on with the dream, I was in a park with my family just watching the kids run and play and other families having a good time together. I was sitting on the ground next to a swing set and suddenly a little girl who was several feet away stood up and pointed at me and said, “I stand for the world” then many others, adults and children alike either stood up or turned to face me and then one at a time they all said the same thing, “I stand for the world” and the dream ended.

As I was considering what the dream might mean the word “globalism” came to mind. “Peace and safety with unity” is a concept that none of the a/c’s fathers had known. It was always power, conflict, control and conquest. Even if the concept is short-lived, it is something much of the world desires. The concept of globalism has only risen in the age of the computer and internet and while we’ve heard the term bandied about a bit, it hasn’t become a “movement” but that might change in the near future and it might very well be that the a/c will come to fame within this cause.

There are five major sections of scripture that deal with the identity of the final A/C 10 nation kingdom. They are Daniel 2 & 7 and Rev. 12, 13 and 17. Daniel 2 lays the groundwork and the rest stem from that original prophecy. I wish I was experienced enough on the computer to make nice pretty little charts, but I’m not so I have to go old school. Let’s start with the basic outline. Gold/Babylon, Silver/Medo-Persia, Brass/Greece, Iron/Rome, ten-toed Iron/Clay mix/Final identity yet to be determined. My fellow forum member pointed out that Dan. 2: 35, 45 mixes up this order of the nations and he was wondering if there might be a reason for it. So, since it was something I had never considered, I prayed and studied a little bit and here are the results. The first order above is the historical order of their appearance (Dan. 2:32-33) and their rule over the nation of Israel. Other countries have been considered by others like England and Germany but the key to look for is Israel as a nation, which wasn’t possible until 1948. Consider what countries have plagued Israel since then and you will come closer to identifying the members of that final kingdom.
 

Bobby Jo

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I really don't know where to begin. -- What do you do when there are multiple errors in one Post? Do you fix one, and move onto others, (which is typically never going to happen because people seldom change their doctrines), or address each error and create such a ball of yarn that nobody can find the ends from the middle?

So let me start with ONE, and see where that goes:

... Let’s start with the basic outline. Gold/Babylon, Silver/Medo-Persia, Brass/Greece, Iron/Rome, ten-toed Iron/Clay mix/Final identity yet to be determined.
My fellow forum member pointed out that Dan. 2: 35, 45 mixes up this order of the nations and he was wondering if there might be a reason for it. So, since it was something I had never considered, I prayed and studied a little bit and here are the results. The first order above is the historical order of their appearance (Dan. 2:32-33) and their rule over the nation of Israel.

The Book of Daniel is NOT written to the Jews. It's written to the NATIONS, starting with the Babylonians. The ONLY exception to this in found in Chapter 9, where Daniel had to don the mantle of JEREMIAH in order to prophesy to his kinsmen. But ALL OTHER instances detail events and participants pertaining to the NATIONS of the world, -- primarily the Three Superpowers.


But as to the greater focus of this Topic, -- please allow me to present the SEVEN MOUNTAINS:

1. Gold, Babylon
2. Silver, Medo/Persia
3. Bronze, Greece
4. Iron, Rome
-- Clay, "divided kingdom"
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, UK/US
-- 6. Bear, Russia
-- 7. Leopard (actually a Tiger), China

And of course, -- the BEAST:
-- 8. "dreadful", United Nations -- "eighth that was and is not", has NO Populous, NO Geography, NO Army ...

... which is comprised of the Mouth of the Lion, superiority in technology, science, finance, & trade; the Body of the Leopard (actually a Tiger), has the world's greatest population; and the Feet of the Bear, has the world's greatest land mass.


Or we can imagine other "fulfillments" which AREN'T Scripture and Historical.


Bobby Jo

 

Bobby Jo

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... So two questions remain to be addressed:

#1. Why is there Iron in the Feet of Clay? -- It must be because it's the Revived Holy Roman Empire, which doesn't exist, never has existed, and never will exist, except in the minds of some individuals:

EU MEMBERS:
  1. Austria
  2. Belgium
  3. Bulgaria
  4. Croatia
  5. Cyprus
  6. Czech Republic
  7. Denmark
  8. Estonia
  9. Finland
  10. France
  11. Germany
  12. Greece
  13. Hungary
  14. Ireland
  15. Italy
  16. Latvia
  17. Lithuania
  18. Luxembourg
  19. Malta
  20. Netherlands
  21. Poland
  22. Portugal
  23. Romania
  24. Slovakia
  25. Slovenia
  26. Spain
  27. Sweden
  28. United Kingdom

APPLICANTS:
  1. Albania
  2. Montenegro
  3. Serbia
  4. The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
  5. Turkey

CANDIDATES
:
  1. Bosnia and Herzegovina
  2. Kosovo

GRAND TOTAL: 35
TARGET NUMBER: 10
DISCREPANCY: 25


#2. Why is the "Leopard" actually a "Tiger". -- In Daniel's day there was no trade route to the "east", but there was a vibrant trade route to Africal. So when Daniel saw a "Tiger", his only point of reference for vertically marked cat (Tiger), was circularly marked cat (Leopard).



... but what about Question #1? You said what it wasn't, but didn't say what it WAS!?! -- Very astute! :)


Bobby Jo
 

Jay Ross

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I really don't know where to begin. -- What do you do when there are multiple errors in one Post? Do you fix one, and move onto others, (which is typically never going to happen because people seldom change their doctrines), or address each error and create such a ball of yarn that nobody can find the ends from the middle?

<snip>


I have the same problem with your posts. The premise for your understanding is flawed.

The five segments nations of the statue prophecy are:

1. Babylon
2. Medes Persians
3. Grecian

Then there is a 2,000 or so year gap and after WW1 Babylon was remembered once more.

4. Iraq
5. Coalition of the Willing

The beast in chapter 7 are five with four stirring up the sea and manifesting themselves in the sea of humanity.

The first beast has the mind of a man.
The second beast consumes much flesh.
The third beast exercise great power and dominion.
The fourth tramples much of the earth and tramples the residue with its feet.
The fifth beast speaks out great things against God and is a false prophet.

The understanding is simple if you diligently read the scriptures and understand.
 

Bobby Jo

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... The premise for your understanding is flawed.

The five segments nations of the statue prophecy are:
1. Babylon
2. Medes Persians
3. Grecian ...
4. Iraq
5. Coalition of the Willing

It seems to me that Scripture and History are a little more specific than you present. And if I'm not mistaken, there are SEVEN kingdoms, not five.

Have you considered alternate solutions?

Bobby Jo
 
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Jay Ross

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It seems to me that Scripture and History are a little more specific than you present. And if I'm not mistaken, there are SEVEN kingdoms, not five.

Have you considered alternate solutions?

Bobby Jo

You are right, history does support that after a period of around 2,000 years Babylon was remembered once more after WW1. The same prophecy also told us that Jerusalem would be divided into three distinct area partitions. The theories that you sprout as being "true" were formulated before WW1 and Babylon being remembered once more for God's wrath. They were formulated before a number of Biblical end time prophecies were fulfilled. The return of some of Abraham's descendants in 1948 to the land of Canaan, God foretold, possible around 20 years before Isaac was born. But the possibility that this one verse prophecy would be fulfilled 4,000 years after Isaac's birth was difficult for people to comprehend and so this prophecy was explained away by combining it with the separate prophecy concerning God's promise that He would rescue His People from a land that they sojourned in for 400 plus years and became slaves in and were oppressed, and that their rescue happened 660 years after the birth of Isaac.

Yes Ancient History does allow us to identify the nations and the Kings that were influenced by the spiritual beasts of Daniel 7 and manifested the dominate characteristics of the beasts as the seas were stirred up by the respective beasts.

Have I considered alternate solutions? I did believe at one time the explanation of God's prophecies as provided 400 plus years ago. But with two of the Bowl prophecies of Revelation 16 having unfolded in our recent times has meant that a very different understanding of the events was needed.

I also came to understand that our understanding of the Hebrew root word H:1755 embedded 167 times in 22 different Hebrew words was wrong and as such the manner in which it was translated into English force a flawed understanding on our part.

It has taken around 20 years or so for me to discover these anomalies within the "traditional" understanding of God's word.

Another adnominally within our English translations is the understanding of the Greek Root word, G:4578 which is found embedded in 4 Greek words 14 times which has a Strong definition of "a commotion, shaking" but which is better understood to have the meaning of "turmoil" instead of the traditional translation of "earthquake." Because of this miss translations of the Greek texts, when we read NT prophecies which speak of "earthquakes" instead of "turmoil within the people" we begin looking for the wrong signs to be fulfilled to confirm that the prophecy has/will be fulfilled.

Sadly the introduced confusion in our understanding by the fallen heavenly hosts means that Christians are fighting about the "truth" of their respective and many times flawed understandings of what the prophecies really mean. Unless we go back to the original intended meanings of the End Time prophecies, we will not have understanding of what is to transpire in our future. Yes we have some of the jigsaw picture solved, but because we see different pictures on the pieces still to be put into the picture we are having great difficulty in solving the jigsaw of the end times.

Sadly many of the present day commentators are also blinded and we have the blind leading the blind concerning the future End Times.

Shalom
 

Enoch111

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The Book of Daniel is NOT written to the Jews.
This is the MOST GLARING ERROR of all. First of all it is found in the Hebrew Tanakh which was the Bible of the Jews for hundreds of years. Secondly Daniel tells us that this is written to the Jews.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people [THE JEWS] and upon thy holy city [JERUSALEM]...(Dan 9:24)

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:[THE JEWS]...(Dan 12:1)
 
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Enoch111

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My fellow forum member pointed out that Dan. 2: 35, 45 mixes up this order of the nations and he was wondering if there might be a reason for it.
"Mixes up" is the wrong term. REVERSES is the correct term, and the reason for that is that those verses speak of the destruction of the kingdom of the Antichrist by Christ Himself. The kingdom of the Antichrist will be supported by ten nations out of the European Union, and the EU is nothing but the revived Roman Empire (primarily).

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. (Dan 2:44)

This is a reference to the Kingdom of God, which will be literally set up on earth after the Second Coming of Christ, and all the kingdoms of the world will be destroyed. Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome were all involved with the countries surrounding the Mediterranean. So all those nations will be destroyed, and in addition to that, all the nations of the world as shown below.

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13,14)

BTW there is only ONE kingdom of the Beast (not kingdoms). It is a world-wide empire ruled by Satan and the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years. See Revelation 13.
 

Bobby Jo

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... our understanding of the Hebrew ...
Great. Someone who apparently understands Hebrew! So the I expect, given your asserted expertise, that you understand that the word "sevens"as cited in Daniel 9 -- seventy "sevens" -- is NOT given in the usual CONCISE Feminine gender text, but rather is given per the unusual INCONCISE Masculine gender text as noted by Young, Keil, & Kliefoth:

24 “Seventy weeks [weeks -- שָׁבֻעִ֨ים šā-ḇu-‘îm] of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks [and weeks -- שָׁבֻעִ֖ים šā·ḇu-‘îm]. Then for sixty-two weeks [and weeks -- שָׁבֻעִ֖ים šā·ḇu-‘îm] it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, [the weeks -- הַשָּׁבֻעִים֙ haš-šā-ḇu-‘îm] an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its[d] end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed. 27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week;[for week -- שָׁב֣וּעַ šā-ḇū-a‘] and for half of the week [of the week -- הַשָּׁב֜וּעַ haš-šā-ḇū-a‘] he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”



“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[1]

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[2]
[1] John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217
[2] IBID, p. 218

The commentaries assert that this prophecy is for a total duration 490 years, but Scripture apparently contradicts this premise. So if you are as expert as you apparently assert, -- what is the TRUE duration of the seventy "sevens"?


I LOVE pudding, because the proof is ALWAYS in the pudding. :)


Bobby Jo
 

Bobby Jo

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Bobby Jo said:
The Book of Daniel is NOT written to the Jews.
... Daniel tells us that this is written to the Jews.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people [THE JEWS] and upon thy holy city [JERUSALEM]...(Dan 9:24)
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:[THE JEWS]...(Dan 12:1)

You presume too much. First of all, in Chapter 9, Daniel had to don the mantle of Jeremiah in order to prophesy to his kinsmen. Secondly, you presume that GOD's people, "thy people", are Jews when in fact they're simply GOD's people which include those in HIS creation which are written in the Book Of Life.

And so ALL the prophecies in the Book of Daniel, are to the NATIONS -- with the exception of Daniel 9 as explained above, which depended on Jeremiah's prophecy.


Bobby Jo
 
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Enoch111

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Secondly, you presume that GOD's people, "thy people", are Jews when in fact they're simply GOD's people which include those in HIS creation which are written in the Book Of Life.
And you are presuming to interpret plain Scripture in a fanciful manner. Jerusalem is not the city of *His creation*, but the city of the Jews in Judea (now the nation-state of Israel and declared the capital of Israel recently).

The whole prophecy of Daniel revolves around the Jews, Jerusalem, and the temple at Jerusalem, and how those ancient empires impacted Judea, Palestine, Jerusalem, and the temple. It also points to the Antichrist, who will be a renegade Jew, and sit in the future temple AT JERUSALEM, claiming that he is God, while controlling the whole world with Satanic power for 3 1/2 years. Those who claim that the Antichrist is the Papacy are quite mistaken.
 

Bobby Jo

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Trekson said:
My fellow forum member pointed out that Dan. 2: 35, 45 mixes up this order of the nations and he was wondering if there might be a reason for it.
"Mixes up" is the wrong term. REVERSES is the correct term ...

Ummmmmmm, neither of you correctly assess Daniel 2:45. First of all, the order is not "mixed up". It simply separates the presumed 4a/4b by inserting the Bronze between the Iron and the Clay. Secondly, it's CLEARLY not "reversed", and anyone who says otherwise is not very well considered:

Daniel 2:45 ... the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold ...


So the question remains for the esteemed and well studied students of this Forum:
What is the significance of the 2:45 sequence: 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE?
(Hint, the answer is found in the question!)​


Bobby Jo
 

Bobby Jo

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And you are presuming to interpret plain Scripture in a fanciful manner. Jerusalem is not the city of *His creation*, but the city of the Jews in Judea (now the nation-state of Israel and declared the capital of Israel recently).

Perhaps you missed the FIRST point.



The whole prophecy of Daniel revolves around the Jews, Jerusalem, and the temple at Jerusalem, and how those ancient empires impacted Judea, Palestine, Jerusalem, and the temple. It also points to the Antichrist, who will be a renegade Jew, and sit in the future temple AT JERUSALEM, claiming that he is God, while controlling the whole world with Satanic power for 3 1/2 years. Those who claim that the Antichrist is the Papacy are quite mistaken.

You have no clue as to the prophecies or the fulfillments. Perhaps we should start with Chapter 2 to see if we arrive to where the Angel instructs us:

Daniel 12: 4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

... or where YOU instruct us.



Bobby Jo
 

Enoch111

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You have no clue as to the prophecies or the fulfillments.
This is so laughable that anyone who knows me on this forum will ROTFL.
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Bobby Jo

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This is so laughable that anyone who knows me on this forum will ROTFL.
View attachment 5475

You make a FINE Donald Duck, -- although I might have picked Daffy Duck for you!

But when you're done laughing, perhaps you'd like to discuss the Bible instead of your imaginary cartoon characters, -- starting with Daniel Chapter 2.
Or NOT!


Bobby Jo
 

Jay Ross

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Great. Someone who apparently understands Hebrew! So the I expect, given your asserted expertise, that you understand that the word "sevens"as cited in Daniel 9 -- seventy "sevens" -- is NOT given in the usual CONCISE Feminine gender text, but rather is given per the unusual INCONCISE Masculine gender text as noted by Young, Keil, & Kliefoth:

24 “Seventy weeks [weeks -- שָׁבֻעִ֨ים šā-ḇu-‘îm] of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks [and weeks -- שָׁבֻעִ֖ים šā·ḇu-‘îm]. Then for sixty-two weeks [and weeks -- שָׁבֻעִ֖ים šā·ḇu-‘îm] it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, [the weeks -- הַשָּׁבֻעִים֙ haš-šā-ḇu-‘îm] an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its[d] end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed. 27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week;[for week -- שָׁב֣וּעַ šā-ḇū-a‘] and for half of the week [of the week -- הַשָּׁב֜וּעַ haš-šā-ḇū-a‘] he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”



“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[1]

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[2]
[1] John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217
[2] IBID, p. 218

The commentaries assert that this prophecy is for a total duration 490 years, but Scripture apparently contradicts this premise. So if you are as expert as you apparently assert, -- what is the TRUE duration of the seventy "sevens"?


I LOVE pudding, because the proof is ALWAYS in the pudding. :)


Bobby Jo

First off, what I said was that my understanding of one Hebrew word was changed through my study of God's word. I did not say I was an expert student of language, I have enough problems using the one language, English, that I know to help people understand what I write..

However I will address the passage Daniel 9:24-27 as to how I understand the five independent prophecies given

Daniel 9:24-27

Prophecy one

Part a
24 "Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,

Part b
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

Prophecy two

25 "Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

Prophecy three

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

Prophecy four

And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Prophecy five

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate."
Prophecy one: - Within this verse I see two parts of the prophecy, Firstly, God gave Israel 490 years to repent of their idolatrous practices and secondly, God informs Daniel that He is changing the process of reconciliation for iniquities, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the prophecy and the vision and to anoint the most holy.

It is my view that Prophecy one began around the years 494 BC and has no associativity with any of the other prophecies and its end was the end of the age of the fathers before the visitation of their iniquities was visited upon their children and their children's' children during the third and fourth age of Israel's existence. (Ex 20:4-6)

Prophecy Two: - Scholars suggest that Herod began rebuilding the Temple in about 20 BC and we are told in the scriptures that in John 2:20 that it had taken 46 years up to that time to build. From this information we can deduce that the command to build the temple was decreed around the year 457 BC. The completion date to build Herod's Temple was around 2 years later with work continuing on and off for around 80 years after that. Source: https://www.bible-history.com/gentile_court/TEMPLECOURTConstruction_of_the_Temple.htm.

The understanding given above is that the prophecy in verse 25 ended around the year 26 BC just before Christ was crucified in 29 BC.

Although Prophecy two runs parallel to Prophecy one for 473 years, its end date is outside of the time span of Prophecy one. is o

Prophecy three: This prophecy tells us that after the completion of the temple in 26 BC, that the Messiah would be cut off, i.e. crucified, without any apparent profitable outcome with respect to Himself. However, Christ death fulfilled part b of Prophecy one, well outside of the ending point for the 490 years of its duration for Israel to repent of their iniquities.

Prophecy four: - Has not starting time stamp as to when it was to begin although within the prophecy, the endpoint is given for the prophecy, i.e. "and until the end of the war". The problem that we have is what war is being referenced by this statement?

I would suggest that the Prince that is to come is described in Daniel 8 and is a reference to the fifth demonic beast mentioned in Daniel 7. It is also my contention that the beasts of Daniel 7 are fallen wicked demonic heavenly hosts, i.e. Angles that fell with Satan much earlier in time, and the battle being referenced in this prophecy takes place in heaven and until the end of this battle, the land of Canaan will be experience desolations in keeping with the Prophecy found in Isaiah 61:4 if the context of the two Hebrew words associated with H:1755 is properly understood.

We are told of a battle in Heaven in Revelation 12 and that Satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven. This is still to occur and will happen at the end of this present age when the heavenly host are judged in Heaven and the Kings of the Earth are judged on the earth and they are imprisoned in the Pit/Abyss for 1,000 years i.e. for many days. Isaiah 24:21-22.

Because of the length of Prophecy four, it falls outside of the "traditional constraints" of the 490 years of Prophecy one part a.

Prophecy five: - is independent, time wise of the other four prophecies contained in Daniel 9:24-26. The solemn covenant entered into by Satan is for a period of seven years and if the five independent prophecies of verses 24-27 are consecutive in that they all come one after the other with prophesies one and two overlapping for a 457 period of time, they are all in essences sequential with one follow the one before.

If this is true then Prophecy five must follow Prophecy four and if Prophecy four end with the conclusion of the battle in heaven which lasts for many ages, in our near future and that when Satan and his fallen angels age kicked out of heaven down to the earth they are immediately imprisoned in the Bottomless pit from which they cannot exert directly any influence over the peoples of the earth, then the solemn covenant of verse 27 cannot occur until the Bottomless pit is unlocked and the occupants of the Bottomless Pit can once more exercise their influence over the peoples of the earth at that time.

As such the time span of the Daniel 9:24-27 prophecies span around 3,500 years which is in keeping with the Daniel 12:7 time span of when all of the wonders that Daniel had been told about would be completed.

I trust that this answers your question

Shalom
 

Bobby Jo

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First off, what I said was that my understanding of one Hebrew word was changed through my study of God's word ...

I trust that this answers your question

Shalom

Ummmmmm, NO. You didn't answer the crux of the TEXT. You simply repeated the lies of the commentators which assert a 490 year "fulfillment".

Maybe you need more research/study ...


Bobby Jo
 

Jay Ross

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Ummmmmm, NO. You didn't answer the crux of the TEXT. You simply repeated the lies of the commentators which assert a 490 year "fulfillment".

Maybe you need more research/study ...


Bobby Jo

Did you really take the time to read my post and understand what I had written before coming to that conclusion.

If you had read my post you would have read that all of the five prophecies of 24-27 are independent prophecies with only the first three prophecies having been fulfilled up to the present time.

I did not argue for any gaps within the five prophecies. I did state that the prophecies are sequential and that they have been given in the order in which they will occur.

I do not think that my post in response to your inquiry is typical of the usual traditional understanding.

As regards to the Hebrew word translated as "week" I am happy with the understanding that the Hebrew word is referring to a period of time which is seven years long.

When the disciples aske Jesus how long a person should forgive his brother, Jesus' response that they should forgive their brother 70 time 7 times or for 490 times. Jesus was referencing the Daniel 9:24 prophecy concerning the need of Israel to repent of their iniquities against God. Israel had failed to comply with this requirement of this prophecy. Jesus even offer to make their burden lighter if they responded to Him after the finish of the 490 years.

Shalom
 

Bobby Jo

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Did you really take the time to read my post ...
Well, when the Scriptures say one thing, and you say a different thing (regarding seventy "sevens") by asserting a FALSE 490 year "fulfillment", then who is not reading the Posted information?!?

The TEXT does NOT allow a 490 year "fulfillment". So please start there.


Bobby Jo
 

Bobby Jo

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Secondly, the "going forth of the word" is not as the commentators portend:

“[Per Young] This phrase has reference to the issuance of the word, not from a Persian ruler but from God. Young goes on to point out that the expression the commandment, which he insists is better translated “a word” (Heb. Dābār; cf. 2Ch 30:5) is also found is Daniel 9:23 for a word from God.”[1]
[1] John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 224


So I encourage you to find IN SCRIPTURE where GOD specifically calls his chosen, and sets forth the rebuilding of the ANCIENT Door and Gates. If you find it, then you might want to "start-the-clock" on the seventy durations of time. -- And let me ask, are you familiar with the book by J.R. Church, "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms"?


Thanks,
Bobby Jo