WHY ARE MANY OF US STILL HERE?

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Phoneman777

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I'm curious, Phoneman, which day is the Sabbath day? I mean, not on the gentile calendar, but on the true God given calendar?

Much love!
Mark

Colossians 2:16-17 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Which day did God specify in His law? (Hint: it was not the "venerable day of the Sun god" which is the day Satan has chosen as its replacement)

BTW, Colossians 2 is referring to ceremonial sabbaths of the Jews, not the weekly Sabbath of the Ten Commandments.
 

marks

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1 John 3
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


Jesus' commandments. Trust Him. Love others. Keep them.

Much love!
Mark
 
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marks

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Which day did God specify in His law? (Hint: it was not the "venerable day of the Sun god" which is the day Satan has chosen as its replacement)

No, I mean, which is the 7th day? The actual Sabbath? Or do you just pick some day, like our Saturday, to be the Sabbath.

Because the actual Sabbath day was set by God. He established a calendar for His chosen nation Israel, and as you know, we don't all use the same calendar.

If you are taking the current US dating system, and are marking days of the week accordingly, how do you know you are keeping the actual Sabbath day as established by God? The weekly anniversary of the completion of creation?

How do you know that the Sabbath on the original Israelite calendar also happens to be our Saturday? Because if it's not, you're just picking a day of your own choosing, and that's not the Sabbath. Resting on 6th, or 2nd day, is just counted as a day off.

BTW, Colossians 2 is referring to ceremonial sabbaths of the Jews, not the weekly Sabbath of the Ten Commandments.

It just says "sabbaths". So I figure that's what it means.

Much love!
mark
 

marks

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@Phoneman777

1 Timothy 1:5-11
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.


Question, you are saying the Law is meant for you, is that correct? How do you understand the above?

Much love!
Mark
 
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ScottA

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Once again, you Antinomianists shift the discussion from "Christian obligation" to "Christian origination" so that you can argue against what we are not claiming at all.

A Christian's origin is made possibly by salvation by grace through faith...period. Now, may we please continue discussing Christian obligation?

A Christian's obligation is to obey the Ten Commandments (1 John 2:3-4; James 2:10-12; Romans 7:7; Hebrews 8:8-10) because it is that law by which we are judged.

Either Christians are allowed to have other gods before God, or they are obligated to have no other gods before God. There is no third option.
What did you call me?

Well, again, your emotions are understandable...just not appropriate.

Your reply is like a form letter in response.

I was indeed addressing the obligation issue, all of which are met "in Christ." In other words, if we are in Christ, "it is no longer we who live but Christ who lives in us." Thus, by imposing the Ten Commandments on those in Christ, you crucify Christ all over again. Which one would not do if he actually knew what being "in Christ" meant, and believed the entire word of God which elaborates the only biblical "obligations" of New Testament Christians. Such a campaign is against-Christ.

During these times of the church, the times of the gentiles, and not those times of Israel...no one has been given the law (including the Ten Commandments), except as a gift. The gift is not an incomplete gift yet to be fulfilled, but rather, in Christ "It is finished" already. And, no, Christ does not need our help to hold things together, or to come picking up after Him. He has violated no law or commandment, but fulfilled all...already.

Shame on you for browbeating His lambs, lambs who were never commanded to do the law. You mistake "servants" for "sons." But "Beloved, now are we the sons of God."

As for what commandments those who live during these times are actually obligated to, we have a "new commandment" which sums up all the laws of the past into one:

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.

And the one, new commandment:

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another."

That is all.
 
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marks

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I’m sorry...what is the Law you are referring to exactly?
I believe we've been discussing the keeping of the 10 commandments, but for me the Law of the Torah cannot be subdivided, so the entire covenant between God and the Israelites made at Horeb.

Much love!
Mark
 

Waiting on him

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To the OP many of us are still here because there are many we are still to aid into being born into the household of God.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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To the OP many of us are still here because there are many we are still to aid into being born into the household of God.

And even when He takes us up to heaven, the angels will still be here, one of whom will be preaching the "everlasting gospel"! (see Revelation 14:6)
 

Phoneman777

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No, I mean, which is the 7th day? The actual Sabbath? Or do you just pick some day, like our Saturday, to be the Sabbath.

Because the actual Sabbath day was set by God. He established a calendar for His chosen nation Israel, and as you know, we don't all use the same calendar.

If you are taking the current US dating system, and are marking days of the week accordingly, how do you know you are keeping the actual Sabbath day as established by God? The weekly anniversary of the completion of creation?

How do you know that the Sabbath on the original Israelite calendar also happens to be our Saturday? Because if it's not, you're just picking a day of your own choosing, and that's not the Sabbath. Resting on 6th, or 2nd day, is just counted as a day off.



It just says "sabbaths". So I figure that's what it means.

Much love!
mark
If the day got messed up in antiquity, it was re-established by Abraham who kept God's commandments. If it got messed up after Abraham, it was re-established by Jesus. And the U.S. Naval Observatory confirms there's been no change in the weekly cycle.

So, the problem is not which day is the Sabbath - it's who are we going to obey - the Creator and His seventh day memorial to His creation, or the enemy of souls and his false Sun worship day.
 

VictoryinJesus

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I believe we've been discussing the keeping of the 10 commandments, but for me the Law of the Torah cannot be subdivided, so the entire covenant between God and the Israelites made at Horeb.

Much love!
Mark

2 Corinthians 3:6-8
[6] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?


“...for the letter killeth.” The children of God are not under the ministration of death engraved in stones. Instead the children of God are of the ministration of the Spirit which giveth life.

That may not be an answer to what you were asking...It is the Spirit who establishes the law in us; written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God in fleshy tables of the heart. (2 Corinthians 3:3)

The Laws are Spirit and can only be fulfilled by the Spirit. As far as tithing. What is the temple of God? Is it not the body? Then why do buildings adornments and buildings being raised up in His name ...gain more care than the people?
 
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Phoneman777

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@Phoneman777

1 Timothy 1:5-11
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.


Question, you are saying the Law is meant for you, is that correct? How do you understand the above?

Much love!
Mark
Simple: the law is made to show unrighteous men they are guilty of breaking it, are wholly incapable of fulfilling its requirements on their own, and are doomed to die the eternal death of the sinner.

Now, what did James mean by this:

1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

And this:

2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

It sure seems to anyone reading this with their eyes open that James is telling us the Ten Commadnments are the Law of Liberty, that we as Christians are to look into continually in them (for the Ten Commandments are a transcript of the character of Christ) and "examine ourselves to see if we be in the faith"

.....that Jesus may be sought by us for forgiveness and cleansing from all things not in harmony with His Law of Liberty, that when the day comes to be judged by it, we'll be found to have made total surrender to Christ...

and be not found to have honored Him alone with our mouths while our hearts are far from Him, and not found to have heard His law, but refused to do it...such refusal Antinomianists claim is our prerogative.
 

Phoneman777

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What did you call me?
"Antinomianist" which means "one who is against the law of God"
Well, again, your emotions are understandable...just not appropriate.
Do you always characterize unwelcomed criticism as "emotional"? Because the two are not the same.
Your reply is like a form letter in response.
Is that what you characterize lucid, well communicated thought? Because the two are not necessarily the same.
I was indeed addressing the obligation issue, all of which are met "in Christ."
Sorry, but the moment one starts mentioning "to be saved" in a discussion that is about "after we're saved", a shift has been made from "obligation" to "origination", which is an Antinomianist knee jerk reaction. You guys can't help yourselves. It's as if the Cognitive Dissonance starts really taking hold and the only brain response you guys can muster is to do that, so that comforting, reassuring claims of "but we're saved by grace!" can quiet a conscience awakening to the reality that it will NEVER be OK to break any of the Ten Commandments, both in the here and now and for all eternity.
In other words, if we are in Christ, "it is no longer we who live but Christ who lives in us." Thus, by imposing the Ten Commandments on those in Christ, you crucify Christ all over again.
If this isn't a most asinine twisted example of liberal theology...it is not those who keep God's law, it is those who break His law that "crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame", according to Paul.
Which one would not do if he actually knew what being "in Christ" meant,
If one believes that "in Christ" actually means "break any one of these least commandments and teach men so" then that one should expect to be called "least in the kingdom of heaven".
and believed the entire word of God which elaborates the only biblical "obligations" of New Testament Christians. Such a campaign is against-Christ.
I've got unwelcome news for you: Isaiah, the one called the Gospel prophet b/c he wrote so much about Jesus, said, "(Jesus) will MAGNIFY the law and make it honorable." That's why "thou shalt not commit adultery and kill" became "do not lust and hate". If you think only Ten Commandments are bad, just wait till you find out how high and lofty the Spirit of the Law is.
During these times of the church, the times of the gentiles, and not those times of Israel...no one has been given the law (including the Ten Commandments), except as a gift. The gift is not an incomplete gift yet to be fulfilled, but rather, in Christ "It is finished" already. And, no, Christ does not need our help to hold things together, or to come picking up after Him. He has violated no law or commandment, but fulfilled all...already.
More Jesuit inspired Dispensationalism nonsense. Ain't nobody ever been saved by keeping a law, killing a sacrifice, dumping out a drink offering, etc. Abraham isn't going to walk around bragging how he WORKED for his ticket to heaven while us New Covenant prima donnas got there on the roller skates of grace.

It's ALL by grace. They looked in faith forward to the Cross and we look in faith back to it.
Shame on you for browbeating His lambs, lambs who were never commanded to do the law. You mistake "servants" for "sons." But "Beloved, now are we the sons of God."
Shame on you breaking the commandmetns of God and teaching men to do it, thinking you'll be regarded by those in heaven looking down to you as "great" when the entire universe knows what you're doing and teaching is exactly what made necessary Heaven's Commander to have to leave behind His glory and come down here to die an ignominious death on what should have been OUR Cross in the first place.
As for what commandments those who live during these times are actually obligated to, we have a "new commandment" which sums up all the laws of the past into one:

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.
One who claims to love God but breaks any of the first table of stone "is a liar and the truth is not in him".
And the one, new commandment:

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another."That is all.
One who claims to love thy neighbor but breaks any of the second tables of stone "is a liar and the truth is not in him."
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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If the day got messed up in antiquity, it was re-established by Abraham who kept God's commandments. If it got messed up after Abraham, it was re-established by Jesus. And the U.S. Naval Observatory confirms there's been no change in the weekly cycle.

So, the problem is not which day is the Sabbath - it's who are we going to obey - the Creator and His seventh day memorial to His creation, or the enemy of souls and his false Sun worship day.

The Sabbath is and always will be on Saturday. It was established by God and man has no right to mess with it. The early Christians often met on the first day of the week (Sunday) because that was the day that Jesus rose from the dead. But that did NOT change the Sabbath to Sunday. Many early churches met every day of the week, but the Sabbath was still the Sabbath. Period.
 
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Phoneman777

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The Sabbath is and always will be on Saturday. It was established by God and man has no right to mess with it. The early Christians often met on the first day of the week (Sunday) because that was the day that Jesus rose from the dead. But that did NOT change the Sabbath to Sunday. Many early churches met every day of the week, but the Sabbath was still the Sabbath. Period.
The entire Christian world met on Sabbath except in the occult science capital of the world, Alexandrian where the Book of the Dead was written and the Occult Library stood, and of course in Rome where the Antichrist established HQ.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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The entire Christian world met on Sabbath except in the occult science capital of the world, Alexandrian where the Book of the Dead was written and the Occult Library stood, and of course in Rome where the Antichrist established HQ.

There is a reference to believers in Troas meeting to "break bread" (celebrate communion) on the "first day of the week" which would have been Sunday. (Acts 20:7) But I agree that the earliest believers, especially because they were Jewish, likely worshiped on the Sabbath, if they did not meet every day, which apparently many did as it is mentioned in Scripture. (Acts 2:42-47).
 

Keraz

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If you can prove a gap from scripture, you are not a false prophet.
There are two proof text scriptures that tell us there will be a gap of 2 'days' which will be exactly 2000 years; Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8
Hosea 6:2 and Luke 13:32 both prophesy this gap and the fact that nearly 2000 years HAS passed since Jesus Ascended, is undeniable.
Your forceful opinions, Dave L, and accusations of 'false prophet', etc, just seem like bad taste and nasty put downs.

Enough already here on the Sabbath! Read Colossians 2:16-17 and keep your peace.
 
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Dave L

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There are two proof text scriptures that tell us there will be a gap of 2 'days' which will be exactly 2000 years; Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8
Hosea 6:2 and Luke 13:32 both prophesy this gap and the fact that nearly 2000 years HAS passed since Jesus Ascended, is undeniable.
Your forceful opinions, Dave L, and accusations of 'false prophet', etc, just seem like bad taste and nasty put downs.

Enough already here on the Sabbath! Read Colossians 2:16-17 and keep your peace.
Where's the gap in Daniel's 70 weeks?
 

charity

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'We are confident, I say,
and willing rather
to be absent from the body,
and to be present with the Lord.
Wherefore we labour,
that, whether present or absent,
we may be accepted of Him.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;
that every one may receive the things done in his body,
according to that he hath done,
whether it be good or bad.'

(2 Corinthians 5:8-10)

Hello there, @Phoneman777,

If you look at Paul's argument in the verses preceding the above, in 2 Corinthians 5, that you refer to in your entry #25. You will see that Paul's desire was not to be 'unclothed' as in death: but to be 'clothed upon' with life, resurrection life; but that requires resurrection, and the appearing of our God and Saviour. Paul could only be 'present with the Lord', if 'clothed upon' by life, by resurrection life: for this mortal must put on immortality (1 Cor. 15:53). This requires resurrection from the dead, at the appearing of our Great God and Saviour: which is now on a future day, of God's choosing; but had the potential to have taken place during Paul's lifetime, if Israel had repented, which they did not. This was what Paul hoped for: for then he would not have known the 'unclothed' state of 'death', but would indeed have been 'present with the Lord'.

* Man does not have an immortal soul: for only God has immortality (1 Tim.6:16). Our mortal body, must be replaced by a resurrection body (1 Cor.15:53), like unto Christ's own resurrection body, which was made up of flesh and bones, and not a 'spirit' (Luke 24:39).

* No! There is no 'life' apart from resurrection.

'For we know that if our earthly house
.. of this tabernacle
.... were dissolved,
...... we have a building of God,
........ an house not made with hands,
.......... eternal in the heavens.
For in this we groan,
.. earnestly desiring to be clothed upon
.... with our house which is from heaven:
If so be that being clothed
.. we shall not be found naked.
For we that are in this tabernacle do groan,
.. being burdened:
.... not for that we would be unclothed,
...... but clothed upon,
........ that mortality might be swallowed up of life.'

(2 Corinthians 5:1-4)

Praise His Holy Name!

With respect to you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
does not even make literal sense, and we haven't yet considered I will never leave you nor forsake you in this context.
Note the wordplay @ "whether present or absent" also.
Or, you might attempt to establish how you might possibly be "not present with the (Lord)" right now also,
I mean who does that describe, right? Paul is poking fun at "believers" in a little riddle there I guess.

"We are cock-sure, I say, and even wish we were already dead, and partying with Jesus"
"We" used as an inclusion device there, like I might say "we believe 'eternal' means 'immortal...'" even though I do not believe that
-------------------------
'We are confident, I say,
and willing rather
to be absent from the body,
and to be present with the Lord.

(2 Corinthians 5:8)

Hello @bbyrd009,

As you will know, from the context, this is the conclusion of a larger argument, beginning at verse one, and makes perfect sense when looked at in relation to what has already been said in the verses previous to it. The human body is likened to a house and is contrasted with the 'house' awaiting the believer in heaven, which is a resurrection body', like unto that of Christ's resurrection body (1 Corinthians 15).

* Paul's desire was: that when absent from his earthly body, he may be present with the Lord in his heavenly body, without having to undergo the unclothed state which describes those who have died, awaiting resurrection. However this would require the Lord's return, as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, which was the expectation during the Acts period, but was dependant on Israel's repentance.

* Paul died, and is in an unclothed state now, in God's eyes, 'asleep in Christ,' awaiting resurrection; along with all who have died, 'in Christ'. For the opportunity for Christ's imminent return that existed during the period covered by the book of Acts, passed with the refusal of Israel as a nation to repent, and acknowledge the risen Christ, as their Messiah and King.

* When Paul uses the word 'we' in this context, he is including all of the believing community to whom he spoke.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Dave L

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Actually, history did this because if a prophecy isn't 100% fulfilled, it is 0% fulfilled.
You are saying God failed to fulfill the 70 weeks as stated. And then you inject false prophecy into your imaginary gap adding to scripture. Also turning Jesus into Antichrist, and saying the Kingdom of God did not arrive with Jesus who proclaimed it along with the apostles.
 
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