Calvinism is a Cult

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Preacher4Truth

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That's exactly what the Westminster Confession, the London Baptist Confession, etc. say. Just using different terminology.
So those are the people who should have trodden lightly.

Provide the evidence, not an accusation.

God decrees ABSOLUTELY NO ONE for salvation or damnation.

This is from the WCoF? Never saw that before. Provide evidence.

The fact is God does decree to save the elect. And pass over others.

And that is why Christ said that the Gospel must be preached in all the world and to every creature. That is also why God COMMANDS ALL MEN everywhere to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

I asked you a question about God foreseeing those who would believe and then choosing them based on that. Is that your belief? Try to stay on track.
 

Mjh29

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That is an exhortation to not play Bible roulette. Of course when we read the scriptures we are supposed to read whatever book we are reading from beginning to end, and to take the verses in context. And the Holy Ghost also teaches by comparing scripture with scripture.

Then why, might I ask, do you continually take verses out of context, and then tell me my logic is flawed when all I do is read a few verses down! The Bible is what is contradicting you, not me! And to top it all off you'll say things like the above quote, and then when I use Scripture to show you your logical flaws, you respond with:

However, I am of the opinion that every scripture verse stands on its own as a bastion of spiritual truth.

Please, if we are going to seriously converse about Scripture, we've got to cut the contradictions out!
 

Preacher4Truth

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So...now we have one claiming pulling scripture out of context is a bastion of spiritual truth.

Subjectivism, anyone?

New precedent, anyone can claim what one of these verses mean, there is no check or balance.

That is utter nonsense.

We know what a verse truly means when we use its context to interpret it. We do that with every verse.
 

Mjh29

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So...now we have one claiming pulling scripture out of context is a bastion of spiritual truth.

Subjectivism, anyone?

New precedent, anyone can claim what one of these verses mean, there is no check or balance.

That is utter nonsense.

We know what a verse truly means when we use its context to interpret it. We do that with every verse.

It is because every single verse they attempt to use is always contradicted or explained at least within the chapter they are quoting from

Feelings theology will forever be based on loose interpretations of 2 or 3 verses that can be explained simply by continuing to read, and by piles upon piles of feelings, using words that aren't even in Scripture to make their theology feel good..... because if it feels good, it can't be wrong!
 

Preacher4Truth

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It is because every single verse they attempt to use is always contradicted or explained at least within the chapter they are quoting from

Feelings theology will forever be based on loose interpretations of 2 or 3 verses that can be explained simply by continuing to read, and by piles upon piles of feelings, using words that aren't even in Scripture to make their theology feel good..... because if it feels good, it can't be wrong!
What they will do is go grab another verse to support their view of the previous verse that was taken out of context.

Then all one has to do is just say "See?!?!?!" and it's all good.
 

justbyfaith

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But if it needs Strong's interpretation, it can't really stand alone.

If I read it in the 1st century A.D., I do not need a Strong's definition to interpret the verse. It stands on its own as it exists in the original Greek.

So...now we have one claiming pulling scripture out of context is a bastion of spiritual truth.

Yes. Consider that Matthew, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, took Hosea 11:1 out of its original context in Matthew 2:15, saying that God's "son" is Jesus in application, wherein, in the original context, God's "son" was Israel.

And also, in 2 Corinthians 9:6, the immediate context concerns financial sowing and reaping; yet there is a very good application if you compare it to Luke 8:11 and apply that scripture to sowing and reaping the word of the Lord.

The point being that the Holy Ghost reserves the right to take verses out of context.

How about, like, a shred of Biblical evidence to back up you claims.

I would, but you would simply say that I have taken the evidence out of context...

And also, we have given much biblical evidence to support our claims over time and you have rejected that evidence. Now the Bible, in Jeremiah 4:3, tells us not to "sow among thorns". Why should we keep bringing up the evidence, knowing full well that you will reject it?

Then why, might I ask, do you continually take verses out of context, and then tell me my logic is flawed when all I do is read a few verses down!

It is a basic rule of Bible hermeneutics that the immediate context of a verse can never nullify the plain meaning of the verse that it is in context of. One must harmonize the verses if they seem to contradict. This will take studying to shew thyself approved; and also it is important to perform exegesis on the scriptures rather than eisegesis. In other words, don't enter in to reading the verse with a certain doctrine in mind, with a desire to defend it. Read the verses and pull out from them the intended meaning as they exist in their immediate and topical contexts, rather than reading in to them the meaning that you have predetermined the verses must support.
 
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Mjh29

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Yes. Consider that Matthew, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, took Hosea 11:1 out of its original context in Matthew 2:15, saying that God's "son" is Jesus in application, wherein, in the original context, God's "son" was Israel.

The difference is that the original writer were inspired of God, and could take certain liberties that we cannot because they had a special guidance that we do not have.

I would, but you would simply say that I have taken the evidence out of context...

And also, we have given much biblical evidence to support our claims over time and you have rejected that evidence. Now the Bible, in Jeremiah 4:3, tells us not to "sow among thorns". Why should we keep bringing up the evidence, knowing full well that you will reject it?

I will say it again; I am not the one contradicting you; THE SCRIPTURES are contradicting you. All I do is literally read a few verses either before or after the ones you pull out of context, and let the Scriptures contradict what you think they say.

In other words, don't enter in to reading the verse with a certain doctrine in mind, with a desire to defend it. Read the verses and pull out from them the intended meaning as the exist in their immediate and topical contexts, rather than reading in to them the meaning that you have predetermined the verses must support.

I find it ironic that you find a need to explain this to me, when all I have done is let the text speak for itself by showing you that if you keep reading, the Scriptures contradict your belief. I don't need to do anything; I'll let the Scriptures fix the problem for me.
 
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justbyfaith

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The difference is that the original writer were inspired of God, and could take certain liberties that we cannot because they had a special guidance that we do not have.

God has given the Holy Spirit to them that obey Him, Acts of the Apostles 5:32. Anyone who has the Holy Ghost can take these liberties. Of course, if the interpretation contradicts the plain teaching of other scripture, it can certainly be subjected to scrutiny. But as with comparing scripture with scripture, harmonizing the meanings is imperative.

Jhn 15:20, Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Jesus was here speaking to those who would receive the Holy Spirit through faith in Him, declaring their authority, that if anyone believed in Him, they would keep and obey the sayings of His disciples who have the Holy Ghost.

I will say it again; I am not the one contradicting you; THE SCRIPTURES are contradicting you.

Nope.
 
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Mjh29

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God has given the Holy Spirit to them that obey Him, Acts of the Apostles 5:32. Anyone who has the Holy Ghost can take these liberties. Of course, if the interpretation contradicts the plain teaching of other scripture, it can certainly be subjected to scrutiny. But as with comparing scripture with scripture, harmonizing the meanings is imperative.

So, we are given the same exact blessing that the Apostles were when they wrote the Scriptures?


Again, explain. Just saying nope does nothing. Give me example of a time when I did not use a passage either a few verses behind of or in front of a verse that you were pulling out of context.
 

justbyfaith

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Again, explain. Just saying nope does nothing. Give me example of a time when I did not use a passage either a few verses behind of or in front of a verse that you were pulling out of context.
You are basically asking the impossible. If you did not do it, then there would not be any example of that.
 

Mjh29

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Context, Context, CONTEXT! Wow, you can pull these verses straight out of context and make them say anything you want.

~ John 1:12 -- READ THE NEXT VERSE!!! The Will of GOD causes them to receive Him. They were born again of the will of God, not of themselves. And after He rebirthed them, then they received Him, and He gave them power.

~ Revelation 3:20 -- Read the context. He is talking to the church of Laodicea, and is telling them of their spiritual luke-warmness. He is saying either open the doors of the church to me and my truth, or do not; but luke-warmness is not tolerated.

~ Revelation 22:17 -- The problem is, NO ONE is willing unless the Father make them so! [See John 1:12-13]

Here, let me help you find it. NOW you should be able to explain
 
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justbyfaith

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~ John 1:12 -- READ THE NEXT VERSE!!! The Will of GOD causes them to receive Him. They were born again of the will of God, not of themselves. And after He rebirthed them, then they received Him, and He gave them power.

John 1:12 plainly teaches that He gives the right to become the children of God to those who receive Him. In other words, if they don't receive Him, they don't have the power to become sons of God. Therefore receiving comes first.

~ Revelation 3:20 -- Read the context. He is talking to the church of Laodicea, and is telling them of their spiritual luke-warmness. He is saying either open the doors of the church to me and my truth, or do not; but luke-warmness is not tolerated.

Jhn 15:20, Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Jesus was here speaking to those who would receive the Holy Spirit through faith in Him, declaring their authority, that if anyone believed in Him, they would keep and obey the sayings of His disciples who have the Holy Ghost.

It is a common tool of evangelism to use Revelation 3:20 to give an invitation to someone to receive Christ, as John 1:12 tells you you need to do.

Therefore if you believe Jesus, you will receive this saying also.

~ Revelation 22:17 -- The problem is, NO ONE is willing unless the Father make them so! [See John 1:12-13]

I have addressed John 1:12-13 elsewhere. Perhaps I will go and retrieve those statements and post them shortly.

In the meantime, you cannot use it as an excuse that "God didn't make me willing, and that is why I didn't come." Now is the accepted time and the day of salvation.

He is drawing you to Himself in the present moment, is what this is saying. And fifty minutes from now, He will be drawing you to Him in that present moment. And fifty days from now, if you haven't received Him by then, He will be drawing you to Himself in that present moment.
 

Mjh29

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John 1:12 plainly teaches that He gives the right to become the children of God to those who receive Him. In other words, if they don't receive Him, they don't have the power to become sons of God. Therefore receiving comes first.



Jhn 15:20, Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Jesus was here speaking to those who would receive the Holy Spirit through faith in Him, declaring their authority, that if anyone believed in Him, they would keep and obey the sayings of His disciples who have the Holy Ghost.

It is a common tool of evangelism to use Revelation 3:20 to give an invitation to someone to receive Christ, as John 1:12 tells you you need to do.



I have addressed John 1:12-13 elsewhere. Perhaps I will go and retrieve those statements and post them shortly.

In the meantime, you cannot use it as an excuse that "God didn't make me willing, and that is why I didn't come." Now is the accepted time and the day of salvation.

He is drawing you to Himself in the present moment, is what this is saying. And fifty minutes from now, He will be drawing you to Him in that present moment. And fifty days from now, if you haven't received Him by then, He will be drawing you to Himself in that present moment.

And each one of those verses that you are trying to build your theology around I showed where Scripture contradicts you. It's not that Scripture isn't telling you that you are wrong, it is that you don't want to listen to what it says. That's your problem.

~ John 1:12 -- READ THE NEXT VERSE!!! The Will of GOD causes them to receive Him. They were born again of the will of God, not of themselves. And after He rebirthed them, then they received Him, and He gave them power.

~ John 15 -- AGAIN! CONTEXT! Read the passages above, where Christ says that "Without Him [His Spirit] you can do nothing. Not even accept faith.
 
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justbyfaith

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Concerning John 1:12-13, that the person is not born of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God, does not nullify the fact that He gives the right to become children of God to as many as receive Him.

A man cannot will himself to be saved, is what this is saying.

However, if Jesus is knocking on the door of your heart, He will not come in unless you willingly open the door...It is "whosoever will" according to Revelation 22:17.

The person who wills to take the water of life freely, or to receive Christ, is not born of himself, not by his own will, but by the fact that the Holy Spirit comes in to take residence in his heart.

The Holy Spirit is a gentleman and will not take residence in anyone's heart against their will.

So yes, when He is knocking, a person must open the door as an act of the will.

However, the person does not will himself to be saved, and he does not muster up his salvation...

Rather, he responds to the call of the Lord on his life by saying yes to the Lord when He knocks, and opening the door.

If the Lord were not knocking, he would not be able to save himself as an act of his will. A person is only saved when the Holy Spirit comes to take residence in the person's heart. Therefore they are born of God, but not against their will. They must receive.
 

justbyfaith

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Again, they are not saved by an act of the will when they receive Christ. They are saved by the fact that the Holy Spirit takes residence in their heart. They are born of God as the result of receiving Christ. If Christ were not knocking on the door of their heart, their opening the door would accomplish nothing; He is not outside waiting to come in. Therefore they are not saved by their own will but they can only be born of God.
 

Mjh29

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Concerning John 1:12-13, that the person is not born of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God, does not nullify the fact that He gives the right to become children of God to as many as receive Him.

A man cannot will himself to be saved, is what this is saying.

However, if Jesus is knocking on the door of your heart, He will not come in unless you willingly open the door...It is "whosoever will" according to Revelation 22:17.

The person who wills to take the water of life freely, or to receive Christ, is not born of himself, not by his own will, but by the fact that the Holy Spirit comes in to take residence in his heart.

The Holy Spirit is a gentleman and will not take residence in anyone's heart against their will.

So yes, when He is knocking, a person must open the door as an act of the will.

However, the person does not will himself to be saved, and he does not muster up his salvation...

Rather, he responds to the call of the Lord on his life by saying yes to the Lord when He knocks, and opening the door.

If the Lord were not knocking, he would not be able to save himself as an act of his will. A person is only saved when the Holy Spirit comes to take residence in the person's heart. Therefore they are born of God, but not against their will. They must receive.


Again, look up a few verses and you will see he is talking to a church that is going astray, saying either accept Christ into the churches doors, or don't call yourselves a church. Has nothing to do with the nonregenerate, which topples the entire rest of the argument. God is not a gentleman, He is a God. He sits in the heavens and does whatever He pleases. While it might feel good to say this, nowhere in the Scriptures does it say that God is a gentleman, which means this is yet MORE feelings theology.
 
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justbyfaith

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Yes it does! You are saying "Christ gives them authority", the verse says it is either of Him or it is nothing.

How is that a contradiction?

Again, look up a few verses and you will see he is talking to a church that is going astray, saying either accept Christ into the churches doors, or don't call yourselves a church. Has nothing to do with the nonregenerate, which topples the entire rest of the argument. God is not a gentleman, He is a God. He sits in the heavens and does whatever He pleases. While it might feel good to say this, nowhere in the Scriptures does it say that God is a gentleman, which means this is yet MORE feelings theology.

I really wish that He would break down the door to your heart and invade your life; however, I know that it is not in His nature to do so.

Act 7:51, Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Decimates Irresistible Grace, impaho.