Christ vs the anti-Christ: Who is winning?

tzcho2 · Feb 24, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
Jesus Christ is my Lord, my Savior, the Only Begotten Son of God. That relationship is the core of who I am.

I know that you're just going to scoff at that statement. I know that you have never asked me about my beliefs, and have been fed a steady amount of information that you had no way of knowing was false. I don't hold that against you. I feel only compassion for you, hence my offering to freely explaining things. You turned that offer down, and I acknowledge your choice there. Ultimately my path is not determined by yours, but by the Savior. It really doesn't matter to me if any mortal man chooses to see it or not.

Are you a Mormon? Christ and Mormonism doesn't mix.
It is patronizing self-delusion that gives a white-wash of Mormonism and promotes this spiritual deception as "christian". I pray you turn away from the lies of Mormonism.
Mormonism doesn't lead to the Savior Jesus Christ of the Bible but it misleads & preaches fables, a false gospel , and a False Christ Jesus , Jane, it totally spins a web of lies. The lies Smith promoted as the origins in heaven, & his other embellishments to the doctrines in BIBLE is a an insult to God. why would you think that is Ok? If you believe Smith, you wrongly think you have some special spiritual info but you're just deceived. Apostle Paul taught that if anyone or himself or an angel from heaven would preach a gospel contrary to the one given by the Apostles - Let them be accursed. That shows how serious Paul and the disciples of Jesus took it if someone preached contrary to the Truth that they were given by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself & lead through the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 1:8 "8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a divine curse!…"

Jane_Doe22 · Feb 25, 2019

tzcho2 said:
Are you a Mormon? Christ and Mormonism doesn't mix.
It is patronizing self-delusion that gives a white-wash of Mormonism and promotes this spiritual deception as "christian". I pray you turn away from the lies of Mormonism.
Mormonism doesn't lead to the Savior Jesus Christ of the Bible but it misleads & preaches fables, a false gospel , and a False Christ Jesus , Jane, it totally spins a web of lies. The lies Smith promoted as the origins in heaven, & his other embellishments to the doctrines in BIBLE is a an insult to God. why would you think that is Ok? If you believe Smith, you wrongly think you have some special spiritual info but you're just deceived. Apostle Paul taught that if anyone or himself or an angel from heaven would preach a gospel contrary to the one given by the Apostles - Let them be accursed. That shows how serious Paul and the disciples of Jesus took it if someone preached contrary to the Truth that they were given by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself & lead through the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 1:8 "8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a divine curse!…"

You do realize that one Gal 1 is one of the most faith AFFIRMING chapters.
It doesn't matter what any other source says (including folks on the internet), what matters is Truth received from God Himself.
I really don't care if any mortal man thinks/sees. What matters is the King of Kings, and listening to Him.

brakelite · Feb 25, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
I have never met a Christian whose was beliefs are truly 100% from the Bible and no where else.

Have you ever seen me quote or use as evidence for doctrine, anything other than scripture? How do you do, nice to meet you.

Jane_Doe22 · Feb 25, 2019

brakelite said:
Have you ever seen me quote or use as evidence for doctrine, anything other than scripture? How do you do, nice to meet you.

Are you not an SDA? (Trying to recall)
(Not asking this as an insult, I admire much about SDA).

brakelite · Feb 25, 2019

tzcho2 said:
Apostle Paul taught that if anyone or himself or an angel from heaven would preach a gospel contrary to the one given by the Apostles - Let them be accursed.

Note that Paul wasn't saying anyone believing that gospel would be accursed...only the one teaching it. So we need to be careful in how we treat those who are deceived by false doctrine. Jesus said to beware false prophets, false Christs...He said nothing bout such as being shut out of heaven as a result of being deceived. His judgements in this matter thank God, are more merciful than man's. Otherwise we would be having people left right and center claiming only their denomination...their view of scripture...their non Calvinist/proCalvinist/ to the excusion of all else....oh, sorry, we do have that already don't we. Having said that, there is surely a danger in being deceived. And we ought to at every opportunity to bring light and truth to others in the way...but be careful much on how we judge those who believe different to us...the heart itself is more deceitful than false doctrine...beware it isn't your own heart deceiving you.
There are Christians...genuine Christians, in every church...including LDS. Jesus does not accept us into HIs kingdom based on our proud boastful claims of knowing Him and having all our doctrinal ducks in a row (although truth matters) but rather on whether or not He knows us. His knowledge of us lies in our willingness to surrender to Him our minds, hearts, and soul...the whole being, to Him. Some in the more "out there" churches have done this, but God in His good time has not seen fit to bring them out yet; and that could be for any number of reasons. Light too much, too suddenly blinds...it does not reveal. So some seemingly languish in belief systems that others disapprove of...that however does not discount the possibility of those folk not living up to what light they have received.

My heart goes out to all Christians who having received light from God regarding their false beliefs, reject that light. And you will find them everywhere.

brakelite · Feb 25, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
Are you not an SDA? (Trying to recall)
(Not asking this as an insult, I admire much about SDA).

Yes, I am. And not one SDA doctrine is indefensible by using scripture. To quote Ellen White...which I do very rarely, not to promote a doctrine, but rather to reveal what she believed to be paramount...
The teachers of Israel were not sowing the seed of the word of God. Christ's work as a teacher of truth was in marked contrast to that of the rabbis of His time. They dwelt upon traditions, upon human theories and speculations. Often that which man had taught and written about the word, they put in place of the word itself. Their teaching had no power to quicken the soul. The subject of Christ's teaching and preaching was the word of God. He met questioners with a plain, “It is written.” “What saith the Scriptures?” “How readest thou?” At every opportunity, when an interest was awakened by either friend or foe, He sowed the seed of the word. He who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, Himself the living Word, points to the Scriptures, saying, “They are they which testify of Me.” And “beginning at Moses and all the prophets,” He opened to His disciples “in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.” John 5:39; Luke 24:27.
Christ's servants are to do the same work. In our day, as of old, the vital truths of God's word are set aside for human theories and speculations. Many professed ministers of the gospel do not accept the whole Bible as the inspired word. One wise man rejects one portion; another questions another part. They set up their judgment as superior to the word; and the Scripture which they do teach rests upon their own authority. Its divine authenticity is destroyed. Thus the seeds of infidelity are sown broadcast; for the people become confused and know not what to believe. There are many beliefs that the mind has no right to entertain. In the days of Christ the rabbis put a forced, mystical construction upon many portions of Scripture. Because the plain teaching of God's word condemned their practices, they tried to destroy its force. The same thing is done today. The word of God is made to appear mysterious and obscure in order to excuse transgression of His law. Christ rebuked these practices in His day. He taught that the word of God was to be understood by all. He pointed to the Scriptures as of unquestionable authority, and we should do the same. The Bible is to be presented as the word of the infinite God, as the end of all controversy and the foundation of all faith.
The Bible has been robbed of its power, and the results are seen in a lowering of the tone of spiritual life. In the sermons from many pulpits of today there is not that divine manifestation which awakens the conscience and brings life to the soul. The hearers can not say, “Did not our heart burn within us, while He talked with us by the way, and while He opened to us the Scriptures?” Luke 24:32. There are many who are crying out for the living God, longing for the divine presence. Philosophical theories or literary essays, however brilliant, cannot satisfy the heart. The assertions and inventions of men are of no value. Let the word of God speak to the people. Let those who have heard only traditions and human theories and maxims hear the voice of Him whose word can renew the soul unto everlasting life.

From her book Christ's Object Lessons.

mjrhealth · Feb 25, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
You do realize that one Gal 1 is one of the most faith AFFIRMING chapters.
It doesn't matter what any other source says (including folks on the internet), what matters is Truth received from God Himself.
I really don't care if any mortal man thinks/sees. What matters is the King of Kings, and listening to Him.

Lady I am so sorry that you have to put up with this, but I must say, on one thing, you are what you are joined to, You cant sit in a tub of red paint and not become stained, and forget all the banter, there is not a christian denomination on this planet that will say there religion / denomination is not from God, yet you ask any of them to leave for His sake and they will be as stubborn as the rest if them, as HE put it

Mar_7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

But again you must choose, whom you will serve, is you religion more important to you than Christ or is Christ more important to you than your religion. Man can only serve one master,, which will it be?? Guaranteed most will choose there religion,

God bless for standing even if not quiet on the right foot. Now you know what it feels like to be a piece of steak in a cage of vultures.

Jane_Doe22 · Feb 25, 2019

brakelite said:
Yes, I am. And not one SDA doctrine is indefensible by using scripture. To quote Ellen White...which I do very rarely, not to promote a doctrine, but rather to reveal what she believed to be paramount...

I totally acknowledge that you believe EGW's perspectives are defensible using scripture. Totally acknowledging it and in no way attacking you for that.
Inclusion of this perspective does makes you not sola Biblia though.

Jane_Doe22 · Feb 25, 2019

mjrhealth said:
Lady I am so sorry that you have to put up with this, but I must say, on one thing, you are what you are joined to, You cant sit in a tub of red paint and not become stained, and forget all the banter, there is not a christian denomination on this planet that will say there religion / denomination is not from God, yet you ask any of them to leave for His sake and they will be as stubborn as the rest if them, as HE put it

Mar_7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

But again you must choose, whom you will serve, is you religion more important to you than Christ or is Christ more important to you than your religion. Man can only serve one master,, which will it be?? Guaranteed most will choose there religion,

God bless for standing even if not quiet on the right foot. Now you know what it feels like to be a piece of steak in a cage of vultures.

"piece of steak in a cage of vultures" -- I like that phrasing!

I totally 100% agree with you that a person's faith/relationship with Christ is the most important thing and should trump all else. I disagree with the "Christ vs religion" paradigm though.

tzcho2 · Feb 25, 2019

brakelite said:
Note that Paul wasn't saying anyone believing that gospel would be accursed...only the one teaching it. So we need to be careful in how we treat those who are deceived by false doctrine. Jesus said to beware false prophets, false Christs...He said nothing bout such as being shut out of heaven as a result of being deceived. His judgements in this matter thank God, are more merciful than man's. Otherwise we would be having people left right and center claiming only their denomination...their view of scripture...their non Calvinist/proCalvinist/ to the excusion of all else....oh, sorry, we do have that already don't we. Having said that, there is surely a danger in being deceived. And we ought to at every opportunity to bring light and truth to others in the way...but be careful much on how we judge those who believe different to us...the heart itself is more deceitful than false doctrine...beware it isn't your own heart deceiving you.
There are Christians...genuine Christians, in every church...including LDS. Jesus does not accept us into HIs kingdom based on our proud boastful claims of knowing Him and having all our doctrinal ducks in a row (although truth matters) but rather on whether or not He knows us. His knowledge of us lies in our willingness to surrender to Him our minds, hearts, and soul...the whole being, to Him. Some in the more "out there" churches have done this, but God in His good time has not seen fit to bring them out yet; and that could be for any number of reasons. Light too much, too suddenly blinds...it does not reveal. So some seemingly languish in belief systems that others disapprove of...that however does not discount the possibility of those folk not living up to what light they have received.

My heart goes out to all Christians who having received light from God regarding their false beliefs, reject that light. And you will find them everywhere.

amadeus · Feb 25, 2019

tzcho2 said:
Do you have any idea what Mormonism teaches?

Oh yes!

My only full brother married a Mormon lady and when I visited them in Georgia in about 1970 and I went through their entire study for new converts. At that time they [my brother and his wife] gave me a leather bound Book of Mormon including the Doctrine of Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. I read it through several times in the next few years. I never became a Mormon. In the 1980's well into my marriage my wife purchased a copy of the book, " The God Makers" which I also read, but again I never became a Mormon.

My sister-in-law was to become a real devil in the lives of myself, my wife and my only daughter, but I never held that against the rest of the many good well intentioned Mormons of my acquaintance. Until moving to my present closed community where no soliciting is allowed I used to love to invite the young Mormon missionaries into my home for visits. I again never became a Mormon, but I suspect a few of those young visitors to my home who would come back often received something good from our visits. It was not me, but God that let them know they were always welcome. I never attempted to tear down their church. I simply tried to edify according to my own experience with God as the Holy Spirt led.

Do you know what the Bible says about False teachers, False Prophets?

Of course, but who is it that with authority can say that every Mormon teacher never teaches any truth? Who is that with authority can say that every non-Mormon "Christian" [so designated] teacher never teaches any lies?

If we know God and we are being led always, [24/7] by the Holy Spirit, will we not, on a one by one person to person basis when we need recognize a false teacher or teaching, be able to do so?

Do you know what the Bible says about any who add or subtract from the scripture or to those who present a false gospel?

And so then are you the final arbiter on who is, or who is not adding or subtracting. Do you even know what is included in the Book?

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Rev 22:18-19

If you talk to Catholics they will say that the Book should include more than the 66 books you would probably espouse. At least one person here would effectively throw out most of what Paul wrote and another would throw out all that was written by Paul. But... of course you have the always perfect coming out of your mouth, the Word of God. Do you really believe that...?

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." Rom 3:4

And yes, every man is liar until and if he has overcome the world as Jesus overcame the world. Who among us has already done so? Would you without hesitation or doubt say that you have done so?

amadeus · Feb 25, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
Jesus Christ is my Lord, my Savior, the Only Begotten Son of God. That relationship is the core of who I am.

I know that you're just going to scoff at that statement. I know that you have never asked me about my beliefs, and have been fed a steady amount of information that you had no way of knowing was false. I don't hold that against you. I feel only compassion for you, hence my offering to freely explaining things. You turned that offer down, and I acknowledge your choice there. Ultimately my path is not determined by yours, but by the Savior. It really doesn't matter to me if any mortal man chooses to see it or not.

Herein @Jane_Doe22 shows more of the charity/love of I Corinthians chapter 13 than her accusers according to what I am able to see.

"Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." I Cor 13:4-7 [MKJV]

Is not Love/Charity more important than knowledge?

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." I Cor 13:2 [MKJV]

CoreIssue · Feb 25, 2019

amadeus said:
Herein @Jane_Doe22 shows more of the charity/love of I Corinthians chapter 13 than her accusers according to what I am able to see.

"Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." I Cor 13:4-7 [MKJV]

Is not Love/Charity more important than knowledge?

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." I Cor 13:2 [MKJV]

You're sounding a lot like Mother Teresa who loved untold numbers of people all the way into hell for refusing to preach the truth.

Of course, as a catholic, she needed the truth as well.

tzcho2 · Feb 25, 2019

brakelite said:
Note that Paul wasn't saying anyone believing that gospel would be accursed...only the one teaching it. So we need to be careful in how we treat those who are deceived by false doctrine. Jesus said to beware false prophets, false Christs...He said nothing bout such as being shut out of heaven as a result of being deceived. His judgements in this matter thank God, are more merciful than man's. Otherwise we would be having people left right and center claiming only their denomination...their view of scripture...their non Calvinist/proCalvinist/ to the excusion of all else....oh, sorry, we do have that already don't we. Having said that, there is surely a danger in being deceived. And we ought to at every opportunity to bring light and truth to others in the way...but be careful much on how we judge those who believe different to us...the heart itself is more deceitful than false doctrine...beware it isn't your own heart deceiving you.
There are Christians...genuine Christians, in every church...including LDS. Jesus does not accept us into HIs kingdom based on our proud boastful claims of knowing Him and having all our doctrinal ducks in a row (although truth matters) but rather on whether or not He knows us. His knowledge of us lies in our willingness to surrender to Him our minds, hearts, and soul...the whole being, to Him. Some in the more "out there" churches have done this, but God in His good time has not seen fit to bring them out yet; and that could be for any number of reasons. Light too much, too suddenly blinds...it does not reveal. So some seemingly languish in belief systems that others disapprove of...that however does not discount the possibility of those folk not living up to what light they have received.

My heart goes out to all Christians who having received light from God regarding their false beliefs, reject that light. And you will find them everywhere.

It is very misguided opinion you state & contrary to the Bible to tell people that they can be in a False cult that preaches a complete Corruption of Christianity that is at variance to JESUS teachings and tell them that they are Saved too. SDA is also a corruption of Christian teachings also, so it does not surprise that you are supporting Mormonism deception.
How about all the rest of the false spiritual paths that the Bible says don't lead to GOD, do you support them also telling people falsely that they can be saved and follow False ANY counterfeits to Christianity?

This is so much more then someone not having all their theological & doctrinal beliefs correct like you dismissively stated.

Second Day Adventist--is False teaching also, that were received by Ellen White from deceiving spirits , how can anyone not realize this Fact if they are GOD fearing and submitted Christ Jesus follower? All through the Bible ,scriptures warn of False prophets ,False Teachers & wolves in sheep's clothing who attack from within the Church. Galatians 1:8 stated that Anyone who leads people astray with by preaching another Gospel then what Jesus & His Apostles taught is under a divine curse according to Apostle Paul's statements.
JESUS HIMSELF warned about being lead to destruction.
People who are members of a false cult & believe the tales of lying spirits can say that they "love" Jesus until the cows come home-but the proof as Jesus said is following His teachings not false teachings that have been added by lying spirits.

FYI, some occultists also believe that Jesus was a spiritual teacher and they "love" him but by applying the Bible scripture , it reveals that they do not know the real Jesus of Nazareth who died on the cross & rose from the dead, therefore, they are not Christians, even though they claim to love him, that is self-deception. John 10:27 Jesus said "my sheep know my voice & follow me". Matt 12:50 -Those who are His followers "do the will of His Father in heaven." Matt 12:50 is only found in the Bible scripture , not in following phony deceptive teachings of lying spirits.
The whole point of this demonic deception & the REASON Paul was so adamant & stern against it, is because FALSE teachings/ doctrines of demons whole purpose is to spiritually deceive people & to LEAD people away from God into Hell. It is what Satan has done since Eden.

tzcho2 · Feb 25, 2019

amadeus said:
Herein @Jane_Doe22 shows more of the charity/love of I Corinthians chapter 13 than her accusers according to what I am able to see.

"Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." I Cor 13:4-7 [MKJV]

Is not Love/Charity more important than knowledge?

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." I Cor 13:2 [MKJV]

Your opinions have VERY little to do with any Biblical truth. I see that you will not help to snatch anyone out of the fires of hell & are complicit with those who have been lead into a false cult.

You really can stop lecturing me on Christian love and charity. It is the Most UNLOVING thing is to Let people be deceived by false teachings and to go into Hell & tell them they are just fine & lecture the ones warning them, it shows grave ignorance.
Love speaks truth no matter what the cost. Would you warn of an on coming disaster or run into a burning house in order to save a soul or would you just tell the people watching that the house flickering & smoke is not evidence of Fire and that it will not burn down, & to just believe & trust?
There are many in the church today who just call themselves Christians but they have failed to learn what the Bible teaches about contending for the Gospel, about having righteous judgment & knowing when people are preaching falsehoods, about reproving with scripture, about snatching souls out of the fire or protecting the flock from false teachers & by identifying dangerous doctrines that put people's eternal souls in jeopardy.

This is why so many false teachers in pulpits, and we have the Emergent church that preaches heresies and why the Lord Jesus warned that in the end times before the Anti-Christ appearance there will be the great falling away from Biblical Christianity ---and it already is in progress , we see.

tzcho2 · Feb 25, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
You do realize that one Gal 1 is one of the most faith AFFIRMING chapters.
It doesn't matter what any other source says (including folks on the internet), what matters is Truth received from God Himself.
I really don't care if any mortal man thinks/sees. What matters is the King of Kings, and listening to Him.

The truth is written in the Bible , it is not found in MORMONISM. Apparently you do care what mortal man thinks because you follow the teachings of mortal man - Joseph Smith founder of Mormonism.

Jane_Doe22 · Feb 25, 2019

tzcho2 said:
The truth is written in the Bible , it is not found in MORMONISM. Apparently you do care what mortal man thinks because you follow the teachings of mortal man - Joseph Smith founder of Mormonism.

Actually, Joseph Smith doesn't hugely factor into my testimony of Christ.

amadeus · Feb 25, 2019

CoreIssue said:
You're sounding a lot like Mother Teresa who loved untold numbers of people all the way into hell for refusing to preach the truth.

Of course, as a catholic, she needed the truth as well.

"If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath." Mark 4:23-25

tzcho2 · Feb 25, 2019

Jane_Doe22 said:
Actually, Joseph Smith doesn't hugely factor into my testimony of Christ.

Are you a Mormon?

tzcho2 · Feb 25, 2019

CoreIssue said:
You're sounding a lot like Mother Teresa who loved untold numbers of people all the way into hell for refusing to preach the truth.

Of course, as a catholic, she needed the truth as well.

Yes holding their hands telling them what was important was that they were a "good" hindu. This is horrifying what a shock they received when they died and realized they were deceived and comforted by one who should have told them the Truth that saves.

Christ vs the anti-Christ: Who is winning?

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