Christ vs the anti-Christ: Who is winning?

brakelite said:

Don't want to open the mind so much that everything falls out.

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Jane_Doe22 said:

You are errantly assuming that a "Mormon" = disciple of Joseph Smith.
Not the case.
I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, a Christian. I attend church at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Joseph Smith is not the foundation of my life.

I know this contradicts all the junk you've been told "Mormons" believe.

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bbyrd009 said:

certainly does for me, could you expand on this any, is there a strict division in Mormonism? Ty

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brakelite said:

@tzcho2 @Preacher4Truth and anyone else here....
I agree. The Mormon church promotes a Christ that is not related to the Christ of the Bible. LDS promote a God that bears no or little relation to the God of the Bible. The plan of salvation for the Mormon of necessity must include duties and certain rituals that need to be performed for one to be selected for the ultimate reward. The Book of Mormon is nonsense. A fairy tale.
BUT...…..
let us not preclude the power of the true God who is merciful, gracious and true to His own word, that He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. So when we meet someone who claims to have turned away from sin, repented of their lifestyle of rebellion against God, recognise that Christ paid the price for their redemption, and believe that according to His promises they are therefore justified by grace, then who are we to say to such..."nah! You don't know Him. Your Christ is a false Christ. " Be very careful when calling Christ false. You simply do not know that the Christ they have faith in is not the true Christ, and is in fact in the very process of delivering that child of His from the snares of deception. I do not think God appreciates our human fallible judgements as to who is saved, who is not saved, based on the circumstances and place where He called them. People are not saved or unsaved based on their church/denomination etc. I think you may find that many will be saved despite their denominational affiliations.
Now, by all means bring light to the errors of churches that you believe are leading people astray. But you need to be specific. Shotgun blasts from 200 meters away are useless. I see a lot of that here. They shouldn't hold a firearms licence...they could be hitting anything. "You belong to a cult" is meaningless unless you, with plenty of detail and a depth of understanding, explain why it is an error. Saying something is error, and leaving it at that, is not going to convince anyone. And when the person you are sharing with says, "Oh, I don't believe that", then you say Praise the Lord. If they should say, "My church doesn't teach that", then ask, what does your church teach then? Because from what I have read in your own manuals, it certainly appears to be the case> Can you explain why I misunderstand you?" Now such calls for patience. And sincerity. If you are truly intent on bringing light and truth to someone's life, then you will follow through such an inquiry to the end. Otherwise you are just exalting your own knowledge to satisfy ego. Roundly condemning individuals is fraught with danger as you may find yourself doing the devil's work and discourage others from searching for truth. But of course you Calvinists don't care huh, because you can say anything you like and if God chooses to save someone, then nothing you say or do will make a difference right?

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Jane_Doe22 said:

*thumbs up for good and honest conversation/learning methodology*

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Jane_Doe22 said:

I'm going too answer this by first talking about the "mormonism" that you'll hear about from poor quality sources, and then talk about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. If you want me to elaborate on any point, feel free to ask.

The "mormonism" that you'll hear about from poor quality sources: a low quality source will tell you that "Mormons" worship Joseph Smith, are polytheists, polygamist, don't believe in the Bible, believe that works earn salvation, believe in a "created Jesus", are brainwashed, don't study scripture, don't know what they "really believe", are lairs etc.
The above^ is a complete straw man. No one actually believes that. Low quality sources rely on this strawman, taking quotes out of context, spinning, and then use threats and fear based tactics (ye' olde burning alive threat) to convince people to continue on this cycle of ignorance (and sometimes to continue to pay the people literally selling your this story).

Now talking about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints: this church is about Jesus Christ. About loving and following Him. The Bible is revered as the word of God and thoroughly studied. Salvation is comes via faith in Him. Prayer and seeking God are HIGHLY regarded and encouraged. Joseph Smith is regarded as a prophet, but he's also a flawed man and should never be worshiped (would you worship Peter?).
It's extremely different than that strawman "mormonism" picture painted by "anti cult" groups. Speaking personally, it makes me laugh when people try to character assassinate the "worshiped" Joseph Smith, when I readily acknowledge that he had many flaws. My testimony really isn't about him, but rather about the Son of God, Jesus Christ.



Sidenote: there are a few break offs fro the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints that are also sometimes called "mormon". These are completely separate groups with different beliefs. They are also usually very small numerically. If you want me to talk about them and those differences, I can.

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tzcho2 said:

Deceivers & deceived become more deceivers.

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bbyrd009 said:

Ah, I guess fortunately bc I was raised vagabond I met Mormons before I learned about them lol; and I have to assume they were mainstream. I couldn't make them lose your composure, and lemme tell you that is something I am pretty good at lol. They were I guess central in my learning what Christ looked like, even though I never contemplated Mormonism. I remember being struck by the lack of prudishness or taboo around sex, the imo age-appropriate kids--like 12 or whatever--all seemed to know how to make babies, none of the complete ignorance we find so common, that is imo so dangerous, etc

Ty

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amadeus said:

This is the same kind of generalizing that many people do against people of great or even slight differences in belief. I know I've been guilty on this myself, but God is still working on me.


We are certainly to do all that we can, but our very best without the Holy Spirit is what?

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9


Don't jump to too many conclusions based on what you have read or heard but not personally experienced. Simply get behind God and let Him lead you and you will not go astray. I believe in tongues and I speak in tongues, but that is something that God has given me. I don't speak for everyone:

"Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?" I Cor 12:30


So believe that their doctrine is false if that is what you believe God has shown you, but until you are walking always [24/7] in the Spirit, do not presume that everyone else is or should be on the same page with you.


I simply talk to God daily and sometimes I will specifically mention the name of Jesus as the Spirit leads me. See below...


Harsh? To me it indicates that perhaps you do not understand an important role of the Holy Spirit in believers. Jesus is our Head:

"For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body." Eph 5:23

We on the other hand are the rest of the Body of Christ. This corresponds to the carnal body of a man with the head being in charge of the rest and in contact with the rest by means of the red blood which carries out the wastes and carries in the nourishment. The head of the carnal man issues the orders and the bodily parts [you and me and others] are to obey. The connection between us and our Head [Jesus] is the spiritual blood [not red as in Edom but white as in purified to be of God]. This is a difference between a physical body of a man and the spiritual Body of Christ. Without the Holy Spirit, there is no blood and therefore no Life because we are disconnected from He who should be our real Head: Jesus.

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bbyrd009 said:

Time for an aeon change I guess huh? I've always searched that NT, lookie what I found OT A;
Deuteronomy 33:27 Lexicon: "The eternal God is a dwelling place, And underneath are the everlasting arms; And He drove out the enemy from before you, And said, 'Destroy!'
qedem: front, east, formerly
Transliteration: qedem
Definition: front, east, formerly
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from an unused word
Definition
front, east, formerly
NASB Translation
ancient (4), ancient times (3), before (1), before his of old (1), earliest times (1), East (1), east (26), east side (1), eastward (1), eternal (1), everlasting (1), formerly (1), forward (1), gone (1), long ago (1), old (16), times* (2).

Ha is that a hoot or what? Guess I gotta find em all now
Note "30" times for east

Links
Interlinear Greek • Interlinear Hebrew • Strong's Numbers • Englishman's Greek Concordance • Englishman's Hebrew Concordance • Parallel Texts

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tzcho2 said:

The Book of Mormon is completely empty of God's truth. The Mormons call Joseph Smith their prophet--Smith was a FALSE PROPHET that JESUS warned about. A wolf in sheep's clothing.

Any one can read for themselves the deceitful teachings of Mormonism and they will immediately know they are in direct opposition to the Word of God. Mormonism through the prophet Joseph Smith claims he restored the Gospel. They claim the bible teachings were corrupted but Smith restored it--these are blasphemous claims. These are the common claims of false prophets--That the Prophet claims to have the new improved truth" given directly to them from GOD.
A Mormon may claim to follow Christ, but it is a very different “Christ” from what is found in the Bible. Mormonism holds abherant teachings that reject Core Truths of Christianity. The Book of Mormon is in direct opposition to the Christ Jesus of the Bible.
LDS/ Mormonism --reject the Trinity. LDS/Mormon Church claims JESUS a created being. Salvation is by faith and works , hence the attempts to attempt to be seen by others as "nice" because this is what they think "saves" them. The "good" mormons think they will become "gods". The Church of the LDS denies the Bible as the only Word of God and calls the Book of Mormon "scripture" so beware when they say they love scripture and "scripture" is the only thing that's True , it has a different meaning to Mormons & includes the Book of Mormon as scripture. Mormonism believes in multiple gods & goddesses, they believe in pre-existence of souls..and on and on. It is unbelievable how deceived people can be to get bewitched by these False teachings.

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Jane_Doe22 said:

I just discussed all of these "claims" as being false. You're attacking a strawman "church" that no one goes to.

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tzcho2 said:

You are the only one making the false claims.

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Jane_Doe22 said:

Frankly, I don't really care if you want to believe all those bunk claims made by "anti-cult" books. Attack that strawman all you want.

I know the facts of what I know not because any man told me, but from attending, reading, studying, scriptures, praying, etc. If you want to call me a "liar" for being factual, it's really not my problem.

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tzcho2 said:

And the hole gets deeper and deeper.......

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tzcho2 said:

Actually , the Bible testifies of Itself that it is not dead but it is Living & Active.

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tzcho2 said:

There is a reason it is called Holy scripture

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amadeus said:

increase:

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

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amadeus said:

We must simply keep on digging instead of presuming that have already gone as deep as we can or that we have climbed as high as we can. Takes me back again to Corrie Ten Boom [The Hiding Place] with the "refuge" in Him.

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tzcho2 said:

You are the only one making the false claims.

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