The whole world will be deceived

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amadeus

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This sheds light on the use of the term "world". Whole world does not = every person. But Jews and gentiles alike. As in the case of limited atonement.
But every person does have his own little self contained world. Jesus overcame his and each of us in order to eat of the Tree of Life must overcome theirs. With the sacrifice of Jesus and the outpouring of the Holy Ghost it became a possibility... but most will choose to remain in deception even though likely few, if any, who do, will realize that that is where they are...!
 
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Dave L

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But every person does have his own little self contained world. Jesus overcame his and each of us in order to eat of the Tree of Life must overcome theirs. With the sacrifice of Jesus and the outpouring of the Holy Ghost it became a possibility... but most will choose to remain in deception even though likely few, if any, who do, will realize that that is where they are...!
This makes salvation by works, not grace. Grace is when God raises you from the dead spiritually and gives you a new heart, when you are bound in your most sinful state.
 

amadeus

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This makes salvation by works, not grace. Grace is when God raises you from the dead spiritually and gives you a new heart, when you are bound in your most sinful state.
Actually what God did was provide each of us an opportunity to do right that which Adam and Eve did wrong in the beginning. They could have made the right choice, but by choosing wrong, they laid death upon all of their offspring. Jesus then came and brought to us the opportunity for the lost Life. We still have to do what our first carnal parents did not... God never changes. He is no respecter of persons.
 
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Dave L

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Actually what God did was provide each of us an opportunity to do right that which Adam and Eve did wrong in the beginning. They could have made the right choice, but by choosing wrong, they laid death upon all of their offspring. Jesus then came and brought to us the opportunity for the lost Life. We still have to do what our first carnal parents did not... God never changes. He is no respecter of persons.
This is trusting in the arm of the flesh (free will). Real salvation is a fruit of the Holy Spirit you must have before you can believe in any true sense.
 

amadeus

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This is trusting in the arm of the flesh (free will). Real salvation is a fruit of the Holy Spirit you must have before you can believe in any true sense.
No, it is trusting in the power of God in us because the Holy Spirit is in us. No more details here as we have gone through all of this before. We simply are not on the same page.
 

amadeus

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If faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, how can any have it without first having the Holy Spirit?
How did anyone in the OT, such as the true prophets of God, get anything right without being led by the Holy Spirit. Were they led by the Holy Spirit without being filled with the Holy Spirit? Consider what David wrote here about a thousand years before the pouring out of the Holy Spirit as per Acts 2...

"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." Psalm 51:11
 

Preacher4Truth

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This sheds light on the use of the term "world". Whole world does not = every person. But Jews and gentiles alike. As in the case of limited atonement.
It amazes me people don't get this, so it isn't surprising they get the rest of the Gospel wrong, grace wrong, think they clinched salvation by believing, and think they had their own faith. Then they try to convince themselves salvation is all of God.

Uh huh.

Another amazing bunch of baloney is they think God saw in time who would choose him, then decided to save those who DID. That isn't salvation by grace because grace is undeserved and unmerited favor, yet they were saved because they did something. That is meritorious.

Not only are these misnomers in their false gospel, they not only have God choosing to save all he knew would choose him, but they still have him paying the debt of sin for all others who go to hell in their sins. So those in hell had their sin debt paid in full, but they're in hell. "Oh, but they didn't apply it or accept it!" they cry. It isn't that at all, the fact is the Father accepted it: the debt for sin is paid in full; Matthew 1:21. God the Father accepted the sacrifice and paid debt, not man. Man doing this puts self in the stead of God.
 
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Preacher4Truth

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What does the below verse mean to you

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

I ask because,in the world Christians should not be deceived,however they are the only ones that can be,as the rest of the world already are.

Guess this is just a statement more so than a thread,however,please think about it,especially those who believe in a rapture
Whole world is not each and every person who ever lived. It means not just Jews, but all other nations are included.
 
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Enoch111

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The Revelation 12:7-17 verses are actually about the time of great tribulation for the end of this world, not when Satan first fell from Heaven back when he first rebelled against God in coveting His throne.
That's correct. The use of "heaven" there can be misleading unless when understand the heavens and how they relate to Satan and his evil angel. Satan was cast out of the third heaven (God's Heaven) when he first rebelled. But he was allowed free access to the atmospheric heaven (the first heaven) and possibly to the second heaven also. Therefore he is called "the prince of the power of the air", since he rules over all the other evil angels who dwell there.

But in Revelation 12, he is cast DOWN TO EARTH from the atmospheric heaven (along with the evil angels). This is just before the Antichrist (along with Satan) takes control of the world for 3 1/2 years (42 months).
 

n2thelight

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That's correct. The use of "heaven" there can be misleading unless when understand the heavens and how they relate to Satan and his evil angel. Satan was cast out of the third heaven (God's Heaven) when he first rebelled. But he was allowed free access to the atmospheric heaven (the first heaven) and possibly to the second heaven also. Therefore he is called "the prince of the power of the air", since he rules over all the other evil angels who dwell there.

But in Revelation 12, he is cast DOWN TO EARTH from the atmospheric heaven (along with the evil angels). This is just before the Antichrist (along with Satan) takes control of the world for 3 1/2 years (42 months).

satan is the anti christ

What on earth is an atmospheric heaven?
 

n2thelight

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Whole world is not each and every person who ever lived. It means not just Jews, but all other nations are included.

But of couse it's not each and every person that has ever lived,it's those who are alive as these events unfold

As I've said anyone who is not in Christ are already deceived,therefore only Christians can be deceived and many will be,hence the below verses

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven."

Matthew 7:22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works'.

Matthew 7:23 "And then will I profess unto them, 'I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity' ."

Jesus Christ is saying here, and you had better get this now, when there is time. If you do not follow the path that Jesus Christ is teaching you in this sermon on the mount, Jesus response to you will be, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".

This is the generation that better know the difference between God's doctrine and the doctrines of demons. They both sound very good, and they both sound right and true. However, any doctrine that isn't one hundred percent backed by the Word of God is a fake. So the time is here to get down and know what is in the Scriptures.

Both Christ and the devil offer peace, and prosperity, however, only Jesus Christ can offer eternal life. The eternal life should be foremost in the doctrine. Why does Jesus not want them? They worship the traditions of Men, and their church system, and they in fact do not even teach God's letter to His children. What they do quote from the Bible is twisted to satisify their own desires.

Matthew 7:24 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house up a rock."

Jesus is telling each of us that if we are to be His, then we will listen to each thing that He has taught, and then go and put them into practice in our lives. Those instructions will sink into our hearts and minds, and we will be open to the Holy Spirit of God to lead us in our lives. We will strive to be like our Lord and Savior, and pattern our lives after Him. We will learn and practice the love that Christ showed to us, and give that love and kindness to our neighbor. We will learn all about the Kenites, and the laws and commandments of God. We will learn discernment of spirits and the good and bad teachers. We will learn it all; and then we will do it.

That "Rock" is Christ Himself. The victors will sing the "song of Moses" in the Millennium age as recorded in Deuteronomy 32. In verses 3, 4; "Because I will publish the name of the Lord: ascribe ye greatness unto you God. He is the Rock, His work is perfect: For all His ways are judgment: just and right is He." Those that love the Lord know the difference between the Rock Christ, and the spotted crooked rock of the devil. This generation will be tested by the little rock, the Antichrist, and many will leave Christ, and run in ignorance to the false Christ.
 

Naomi25

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What does the below verse mean to you

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

I ask because,in the world Christians should not be deceived,however they are the only ones that can be,as the rest of the world already are.

Guess this is just a statement more so than a thread,however,please think about it,especially those who believe in a rapture
When you do a search through Revelation, you find that the phrase “those who dwell on the earth” or “dwellers on earth”, is talking specifically about the wicked and perishing, not the saved or saints. So...we could suppose that the above verse is just a confirmation that Satan is, in fact, behind the deception of the nations during the end times.
 

Enoch111

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satan is the anti christ
That is incorrect. See Revelation 20:10, which lists (1) the devil, (2) the beast and (3) the false prophet -- the unholy trinity or triumvirate.
What on earth is an atmospheric heaven?
What we call the atmosphere, Scripture calls "heaven". And since there are three heavens, the first heaven is the atmospheric heaven, the second outer space, and the third and final Heaven is where God's throne is located.
 

n2thelight

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That is incorrect. See Revelation 20:10, which lists (1) the devil, (2) the beast and (3) the false prophet -- the unholy trinity or triumvirate.

What we call the atmosphere, Scripture calls "heaven". And since there are three heavens, the first heaven is the atmospheric heaven, the second outer space, and the third and final Heaven is where God's throne is located.

Those 3 are all the same,just different rolls
 
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Dave L

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How did anyone in the OT, such as the true prophets of God, get anything right without being led by the Holy Spirit. Were they led by the Holy Spirit without being filled with the Holy Spirit? Consider what David wrote here about a thousand years before the pouring out of the Holy Spirit as per Acts 2...

"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." Psalm 51:11
All of the born again from Abel on had the Holy Spirit. Faith is a fruit thereof. Romans 11 lists many.
 
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amadeus

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All of the born again from Abel on had the Holy Spirit. Faith is a fruit thereof. Romans 11 lists many.
On this point we are not so far apart except that I have mostly unanswerable questions. I have my own ideas about being born again and the Holy Spirit that many people probably would not like or would at least question. That is a presumption by me since I don't know the minds and hearts of most people.

Thank you for your continued kind responses in spite of our sometimes or even often disagreements.
 
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Dave L

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On this point we are not so far apart except that I have mostly unanswerable questions. I have my own ideas about being born again and the Holy Spirit that many people probably would not like or would at least question. That is a presumption by me since I don't know the minds and hearts of most people.

Thank you for your continued kind responses in spite of our sometimes or even often disagreements.
They way I understand it is all believers of all time have the Holy Spirit. But the Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes through repentance according to the New Covenant revelation of what holiness is. That is, Abel and Job had the Holy Spirit but not the baptism because they did not have the New Covenant understanding of holiness. It is repentance into this level of righteousness that produces the baptism. This aligns with Acts 2:38.