Thoughts on Charles Finney

In another thread, we began to discuss one Charles Finney, who in my book and many others it a complete heretic. Now, I do not throw this term around lightly; He denied some of the foundational truths or Scripture, saying things such as Christ's Blood didn't actually save anyone, and that man must reach perfection on earth in order to be saved.

I was told that this was "just my doctrinal standpoint", being Reformed I MUST be crazy, but have a look at some of the many, many other people, reformed or not, that feel the same way:

The Charles Finney Cornucopia of False Doctrine, Pelagianism & Evangelical Manipulation

Charles Finney's Heretical Pelagian Theology Ravaged Evangelicalism - Heresy Language Not Too Strong | SermonAudio.com

A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing: How Charles Finney's Theology Ravaged the Evangelical Movement

The Disturbing Legacy of Charles Finney | Monergism

The Disturbing Legacy of Charles Finney | SHARPER IRON

And, if you don't feel like reading all of the above [though I would highly recommend it], here are some of Finney's many, many heretical quotes.

Charles Finney said: "Christian Perfection, as here required, is not freedom from temptation, either from our constitution or from things that are about us. The mind may be ever so sorely tried with the animal appetites, and yet not sin."

Jesus said: Matthew 5:28

Charles Finney said: [Christian Perfectionism] is perfect obedience to the law of God.

The Bible says: Ecclesiastes 7:20

Charles Finney said: Is there any reason for me to believe that I can be so completely subdued, that my soul shall burn with a steady flame, and I shall love God wholly, up to what the law requires? That it is a real duty, no one can deny. But the great query is, Is it attainable? I answer, Yes, I believe it is.

The Bible says: 1 John 1:8

This is merely the first page of one of his works, and already so many blatant contradictions to the Word of God. Charles Finney taught that man must attain his own perfection, and that Jesus didn't really die for anyone; that it is up to man to save himself. This makes him a heretic, not only to Reformed folks, but the Church in general.

Jane_Doe22 said:

@Mjh29 , can I ask your purpose in starting this thread?

Obviously a Calvinist will disagree a ex-Calvinist preacher. And obviously a non-Calvinist is going to agree with that ex-Calvinist preacher.

But I'm assuming that your purpose here is something more than to re-ignite that same-tail-chasing argument with the same ~5 posters that's been raging for threads now.

So what is your purpose in starting this thread?

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My purpose is simply to show that I am not the only one that believes that Charles Finney was preaching a false gospel. I was told that I didn't like Finney because of my "doctrinal standpoint" ie because I', a "Crazy Calvinist." When in reality, many non-reformed people know the heresies of Finney as well.

justbyfaith said:

James said: James 1:14-15.

It is not a sin to be tempted. Every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed. Then, when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin.

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Finney was not speaking of temptation. He clearly said that he can be "sore with hungry appetites, and not sin." Christ claims that lust [which is not a direct action] is still a sin. Finney contradicted Scriptures. Being tempted to do something and actually thinking or feeling these desires are 2 different things.

justbyfaith said:

Ecclesaiastes 7:20 was written before Jesus shed His blood on the Cross and before the Holy Ghost was given to the church.

Verses written after: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:10,14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9 (kjv).

We may even understand 1 John 3:9 as being hypoerbole, in which the apostle was trying to get across the message that there will be a radical life change in anyone who is born again. They have changed their direction from being towards sin, hell, and death to being towards righteousness, heaven, and life. As it is written:

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And thus the problem with your whole theology: You believe that Scriptures can contradict and/or counter other Scriptures? You belive that some Scriptures are given higher power over others based on the time of writing? This is an abominable heresy, friend. This also explains the cherry-picking mentality so prevalent in today's church. Finny wouldn't agree about the whole "Hyperbole" thing. He believed that this was a literal command; that we become literally perfect on earth.

justbyfaith said:

1 John 1:8 declares the same thing as what Romans 7:18 declares: that we have the element of sin dwelling in our mortal flesh. This is not to say that it has to have the control over us. This element of sin can be put to death (Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:6, Romans 7:8), so that it has no more say over our behaviour.

The Bible also says: Romans 5:5 (kjv), Ephesians 3:19 (kjv), 1 John 4:8,16 (kjv), Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Galatians 5:14.

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Yes, but we cannot use this as an excuse to ignore that while God is indeed love, He is also justice and wrath.

Wrath of God

Romans 1:18 ESV / 402 helpful votes
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

John 3:36 ESV / 352 helpful votes
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Romans 12:17-21 ESV / 233 helpful votes
Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Isaiah 26:21 ESV / 188 helpful votes
For behold, the Lord is coming out from his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity, and the earth will disclose the blood shed on it, and will no more cover its slain.

Ezekiel 25:17 ESV / 186 helpful votes
I will execute great vengeance on them with wrathful rebukes. Then they will know that I am the Lord, when I lay my vengeance upon them.”

Nahum 1:2-6 ESV / 161 helpful votes
The Lord is a jealous and avenging God; the Lord is avenging and wrathful; the Lord takes vengeance on his adversaries and keeps wrath for his enemies. The Lord is slow to anger and great in power, and the Lord will by no means clear the guilty. His way is in whirlwind and storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. He rebukes the sea and makes it dry; he dries up all the rivers; Bashan and Carmel wither; the bloom of Lebanon withers. The mountains quake before him; the hills melt; the earth heaves before him, the world and all who dwell in it. Who can stand before his indignation? Who can endure the heat of his anger? His wrath is poured out like fire, and the rocks are broken into pieces by him.

Psalm 7:11 ESV / 127 helpful votes
God is a righteous judge, and a God who feels indignation every day.

Revelation 19:11-21 ESV / 117 helpful votes
Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. ...






Romans 3:23 ESV / 11 helpful votes
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Jeremiah 17:9 ESV / 8 helpful votes
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

Isaiah 53:6 ESV / 8 helpful votes
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Romans 5:12 ESV / 7 helpful votes
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

Isaiah 64:6 ESV / 7 helpful votes
We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

1 John 2:2 ESV / 6 helpful votes
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:10 ESV / 6 helpful votes
If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

2 Corinthians 5:21 ESV / 6 helpful votes
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Psalm 51:5 ESV / 6 helpful votes
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Genesis 6:5 ESV / 6 helpful votes
The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

James 2:10 ESV / 4 helpful votes
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.

Ephesians 2:8 ESV / 4 helpful votes
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Ephesians 2:1 ESV / 4 helpful votes
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

Acts 17:30 ESV / 4 helpful votes
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

John 6:44 ESV / 4 helpful votes
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Genesis 3:1-24 ESV / 4 helpful votes
Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” ...

Genesis 2:17 ESV / 4 helpful votes
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Ephesians 2:3 ESV / 3 helpful votes
Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV / 3 helpful votes
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Romans 3:10 ESV / 3 helpful votes
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

Romans 3:10-18 ESV / 3 helpful votes
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” ...

Romans 3:1-31 ESV / 3 helpful votes
Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.” But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) ...

Romans 1:18 ESV / 3 helpful votes
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

John 12:32 ESV / 3 helpful votes
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

John 3:36 ESV / 3 helpful votes
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 3:16 ESV / 3 helpful votes
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Mark 16:15 ESV / 3 helpful votes
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

Isaiah 59:2 ESV / 3 helpful votes
But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.

1 John 4:8 ESV / 2 helpful votes
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

1 Peter 1:2 ESV / 2 helpful votes
According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

James 4:17 ESV / 2 helpful votes
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Romans 3:26 ESV / 4 helpful votes
It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Romans 3:25 ESV / 4 helpful votes
Whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

John 3:16 ESV / 4 helpful votes
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Jeremiah 31:34 ESV / 4 helpful votes
And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Jeremiah 12:1 ESV / 4 helpful votes
Righteous are you, O Lord, when I complain to you; yet I would plead my case before you. Why does the way of the wicked prosper? Why do all who are treacherous thrive?

Psalm 89:14 ESV / 4 helpful votes
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne; steadfast love and faithfulness go before you.

Psalm 16:10 ESV / 4 helpful votes
For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, or let your holy one see corruption.

Deuteronomy 32:4 ESV / 4 helpful votes
“The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.

Revelation 20:14 ESV / 3 helpful votes
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

1 John 3:8 ESV / 3 helpful votes
Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 2:2 ESV / 3 helpful votes
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Hebrews 10:30 ESV / 3 helpful votes
For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”

2 Timothy 4:8 ESV / 3 helpful votes
Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

justbyfaith said:

There is nothing wrong with a theology that makes a distinction between Old Testament and New Testament doctrine; that understands that Jesus dying on the Cross was a major event in world history that changed everything.

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I agree that Christ's birth was an enormous point in history, the greatest of all time, but this does not mean that Scripture contradicts Scripture. Christ did not come to contradict the Law of the OT.

justbyfaith said:

Eze 36:25, Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Luk 8:15, But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.




Rev 19:8, And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.



Eph 2:1, And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2, Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3, Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

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So, what you are saying here [or rather Scripture is saying here] is that man without God is desperately wicked, and the only way Scripture gives to change this is by the gracious Work of God on the hearts of men. Otherwise, they would remain unclean.

So, you are agreeing by the verses you quoted that man need's God's grace before he can attain any good, clean, perfect thing?

Realize it or not, this quote is very reformed in it's premise; it is easy to support the truth when you use only Scriptures.

justbyfaith said:

Right...He came to fulfill it.

And that means that righteousness which was not possible before He came, is possible now.

When we become born again, we are given a new heart and a new spirit, that is honest and good...we become new creatures in Christ...no doubt about it!

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Genesis 15:6

justbyfaith said:

Your point?

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Abraham believed in the promised savior, and it was attributed to Him as righteousness. You said:

justbyfaith said:

And that means that righteousness which was not possible before He came, is possible now

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That is my point