When to look for the rapture of the church

Copperhead · Mar 1, 2019

Trekson said:
except the usage is "is" come, not has.

Not according to many respectable translations and according to the Greek behind it.

"has come" in.... NASB, NKJV, Greens Literal Translation, CJB, ESV, NIV, and in Young's Literal translation it says "come did", also past tense. Dr. Andy Woods in a article I read recently did a side bar on this and he also stated that the aorist tense of the Greek is used which is a "already happened" implication. Seems Young's Literal Translation did exactly that with the text. And Robert Young is the compiler of the well known Young's Analytical Concordance which is similar to Strong's and equally respected. Dr. Kenneth Wuest, a very well known prominent Greek Scholar (died in 1961) also goes into detail regarding this in his multi volume NT word study. And in his NT translation has it as "has come".

We have to be fair here. "is" or "was" is not a literal word translated from the Greek. The nuance of the Greek tense has to be looked at. And according to many, many Greek scholars, the Greek erchomai is in the aorist tense which is a "already happened" sort of implication.

Even disregarding that debate, as I stated earlier, one cannot build a doctrinal position that the wrath does not come till Seal 6 because it is not mentioned earlier. Wrath is never mentioned in Genesis regarding the flood of Noah's time, yet it is very clear that the wrath of God was on display. And since all power and authority had been given Yeshua clear back in Matthew 28, and it is by His hand that the seals are opened and the events contained in them are released, the assertion that all of the seals are the wrath of the Lamb is valid. Even though it may not fit some folk's agenda.

VictoryinJesus · Mar 1, 2019

Stranger said:
So, if God gives the plans for the millennial Temple in (Ez. 40-46), and it's function, what makes it a golden calf? Just because it is made of material and earth?

We disagree on so many things probably even the millennial reign. And that is okay. I’m not trying to force you to see it the same but only trying to help you understand where I’m coming from at least.

OT: The ministration of condemnation. Death. Adam was given all to subdue and was to be fruitful and multiply and he was fruitful and multiplied but it was multiplying sin. They saw they were naked physically and immediately shame came in. Vanity. Got to cover it up then shame will not be seen while the inward suffers. Everything became outward. Solomon’s temple was out of the trees of Lebanon which were “hewn down” no not bad but made of wood(man’s work which burns). Noah’s ark was made with man’s hands. The image in Daniel is all the kingdoms of man. They built and worshipped the work of man’s hands. All this given of God in the OT was good I’m not sayin it wasn’t but it all spoke of something better to come. The image in Daniel, all the kingdoms established throughout history ...the Pharisees with their works of goodness while oppressing others...what was made and built of man’s hands (the world)rejected The King of the Jews. The children of God were in the image in Daniel but those created in Christ were removed from man’s kingdoms (separated out by HIs flesh) born into God’s kingdom. The image in Daniel has one mind, one purpose, one body to serve the world and what man has built and yes given by God because all is given of God. Many times the word says these all operate and consent (agree)as one. Speaking one language (tongue): to curse.

Consider: Deuteronomy 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

Death and evil.? Condemnation. How can God group death and evil together when He gave us the OT and caused man to walk in its ways? Because He did...man never could meet the heavy burden, the heavy yoke laid upon His shoulders by all that vanity required yet the Law required much more in destruction unto death. God said “I AM going to lift the burden off man’s shoulders. I AM going to carry it upon My own shoulders.” Only the Spirit of God could fulfill all that was demanded and required. Yes, in a body of flesh prepared but in this, the Son, He threw down all man’s kingdoms of works of goodness where all is subdued under One which is Christ. Maybe you don’t like it but ...all that is death and sin and evil subdued under Love.

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

NT. Life and good. The ministration of righteousness. Peace. There is a new creature created in Christ. An express image of God in the Son. One body. Even one language that is pure. One tongue: to bless. One mind. Operating with one consent which is to agree with its head which is Christ. This Ark was created without the hands of man. This temple was made without hands. This circumcision made without hands. (If you agree God returns to a temple made with man’s hands. Does God also return to the circumcision made with man’s hands?)

Ephesians 4:13
[13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

Judges 6:16
[16] And the Lord said unto him, Surely I will be with thee, and thou shalt smite the Midianites as one man.

Judges 20:11
[11] So all the men of Israel were gathered against the city, knit together as one man.

Could go on with supportive scripture but operating as one man either in Christ ‘One Generation’ that is His 1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

“A chosen generation” ONE instead of many, one generation that is His generation without end. where man works no more and the burden is light, the yoke light in Christ...in Perfect love cast out fear, fear is torment...or in one man that opposes all that is God in favor of man sitting on the throne as king rather than God.

Sorry. Know that is a lot. But can’t see how God would remove this One man created in Christ when it is this One man created in Christ which subdues all and His fruit multiplies and covers the face of the earth. Or why God would go back(return) to a temple made by man’s hands when God has already done all the work to cast that temple down.

bbyrd009 · Mar 1, 2019

VictoryinJesus · Mar 1, 2019

Stranger said:
Recognizing a figure of speech, when a figure of speech is used in the Bible is not interpreting the Bible figuratively or spiritually.

But it is more isn’t it? Luke 9:6 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Luke 9:60
[60] Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

“Let the dead bury their dead.” Remember in the OT when just by the confusion alone men slayed one another until all was defeated and taken down without so much as a fight from those God sent? Consider Paul’s words (inspired by the Holy Spirit) careful that you don’t bite and consume(devour) one another. “Let the dead bury their dead” BUT go thou and preach the kingdom of God: call those out of death into Life. Call those out of darkness into Light. “Careful that you don’t devour one another.”

Davy · Mar 1, 2019

Enoch111 said:
Since the events of the 6th seal are immediately AFTER the Great Tribulation, which itself is totally unique, and the result of the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation, you have missed the boat. Until and unless the Rapture occurs, the Antichrist cannot take total control and then set up the Abomination of Desolation.

"Until and unless the Rapture occurs..."? Where do you get that idea? I don't find such an idea written anywhere in my Bible.

Davy · Mar 1, 2019

Copperhead said:
Well, if one is honest, the "falling away has been occurring before the church got out of the 1st century. Even Paul stated in Acts that all of Asia had heard the Gospel, yet several years later when he wrote Timothy, he said that all in Asia had turned against him. And that was before 60 AD. Sounds like a major falling away. And if one studies the letters to the 7 churches in Revelation. one would wonder how anyone got anything right later on. It has only been a miracle of the HS that the Gospel has even survived the last 2000 years.

To hang one's hat on a "falling away" being a trigger is pretty weak at best.

But given that every English translation and the Latin Vulgate translated 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as "departure", "a departure", or "the departure" prior to the Rheims and KJV bibles came on the scene, it might be worthy of consideration that a physical departure is in view in that passage as opposed to a falling away. After all, the context of the passage is laid out in V1 where Paul is talking about our being gathered to the Lord, not our rejection of the Lord.

And if "departure" is what was originally intended in the text, that is game, set, match for a pre-Antichrist removal of the righteous.

In reality, the falling away Apostle Paul was speaking of specifically... in the 2 Thessalonians 2 chapter, has not happened yet. Reason is because it requires that coming "man of sin" to appear in Jerusalem exalting himself as God.

Our Lord Jesus warned us about this coming false one at the very end of this world in His Olivet discourse (Matthew 24 & Mark 13). He quoted from the Book of Daniel about the placing of the "abomination of desolation" which involves an idol abomination placed in a temple in Jerusalem (Dan.11:31).

In 170 B.C., Antiochus IV took Jerusalem with an army, ended the daily sacrifice, and went inside the temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar, and then setup an idol abomination in Zeus worship. But Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel about that event about 200 years after Antiochus had been dead, so that means to look for a future abomination of desolation event in Jerusalem. The temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D., and they didn't do what Antiochus did, and since that time there has never been another Jewish temple in Jerusalem. Today, the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem already have the materials ready to build another temple there.

All this means is the final coming Antichrist for the end must come first, and place an abomination idol in a new temple in Jerusalem, and exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God or that is worshiped (2 Thess.2:3-4). The Church will still be here on earth for that.

CoreIssue · Mar 1, 2019

Bobby Jo said:
Hey CI,
Perfect answer. -- Personally I use the term: future present tense, -- typically in reference to the Rev. 17 mountains/kings in the era where Russia attacks Israel (i.e., "one is"); China is "yet to come" when it spanks Russia; and the U.N. is the eighth that "was and is not" because it has NO Populous, NO Geography, and NO army.

Bobby Jo

Good comments.

But the AC is the eighth and the rejoined 10 toes is the EU not the UN.

The head that was, is not, but will be is Greece, specifically the demon of Alexander the great.

Alexander fits all the biblical descriptions of the AC. He was killed with a head wound. But since he cannot be resurrected, it has to be the demon that ruled through him, as shown in Revelation when the three "frog like dirty spirits" come out of the mouths of the AC, false prophet and AOD (Satan).

Copperhead · Mar 1, 2019

Davy said:
In reality, the falling away Apostle Paul was speaking of specifically... in the 2 Thessalonians 2 chapter, has not happened yet. Reason is because it requires that coming "man of sin" to appear in Jerusalem exalting himself as God.

Our Lord Jesus warned us about this coming false one at the very end of this world in His Olivet discourse (Matthew 24 & Mark 13). He quoted from the Book of Daniel about the placing of the "abomination of desolation" which involves an idol abomination placed in a temple in Jerusalem (Dan.11:31).

In 170 B.C., Antiochus IV took Jerusalem with an army, ended the daily sacrifice, and went inside the temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar, and then setup an idol abomination in Zeus worship. But Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel about that event about 200 years after Antiochus had been dead, so that means to look for a future abomination of desolation event in Jerusalem. The temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D., and they didn't do what Antiochus did, and since that time there has never been another Jewish temple in Jerusalem. Today, the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem already have the materials ready to build another temple there.

All this means is the final coming Antichrist for the end must come first, and place an abomination idol in a new temple in Jerusalem, and exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God or that is worshiped (2 Thess.2:3-4). The Church will still be here on earth for that.

Sounds plausible until one realizes the target audience of Matthew 24.

If memory serves, it was John Langton who put the chapter and verse distinctions in the NT. He goofed on Matthew 24. The discourse starts at Matthew 23:37-39

That is a exposition on Hosea 5:14-15 in conjunction with Psalms 118. Yeshua had been teaching that the Kingdom was near, now, due to Israel’s rejection, the offer of Him being their King and ruling over them is being rescinded. His Father’s house (temple) is now their house and left to them desolate.

Matthew 24-25 is a discourse on what is their fate for that rejection. Matt 24 has many references, especially Joel 2, Isaiah 45, and Daniel 9.

Matt 25, the Virgins discourse is on Ezekiel 20:37-38. The sheep/goat judgement is an exposition on Joel 3.

If you want the discourse directed at the church, that came several days later at the upper room in John 13-17.

And the text of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 says the departure / falling away must come first, THEN the man of sin is revealed. The context of the passage is laid out in V1, our gathering to the Lord. Not our Looking for the Antichrist.

Enoch111 · Mar 1, 2019

Davy said:
"Until and unless the Rapture occurs..."? Where do you get that idea? I don't find such an idea written anywhere in my Bible.

Another one who wants explicit statements before he will believe any Bible truth. Unless you are prepared to do your homework and harmonize all relevant Scriptures, you will not find anything explicit about this.

historyb · Mar 1, 2019

Taken said:
If I offer you something without payment.
It's a gift, whether or not you understand the meaning of what a gift is.
You can accept it or reject it.

Glory to God,
Taken

No, just ideas. Don't flatter yourself you offer no gifts or substance

historyb · Mar 1, 2019

n2thelight said:
Jesus prophecy in verse two tells us that "there shall not one stone upon another," and that condition has not happened yet.

Yes it has, the temple is gone.

Copperhead · Mar 1, 2019

historyb said:
Yes it has, the temple is gone.

Indeed it is. But I tend to believe that what is being passed off as the temple mount now is the remains of the Roman's Antonia Fortress. The actual temple sight is likely more downhill in the City of David at the Gehon Spring. There is quite a bit of archeological evidence that supports this idea.

And unlike the current "temple mount", the most probable area of the temple in the City of David, not a single stone was left standing upon another. That can't be said of the Antonia Fortress foundation.

farouk · Mar 1, 2019

Naomi25 said:
Do you really believe that? I think I've lost count of the times I've asked you to back up your claims and ideas with actual scriptures. Or asked for you to show how the scripture you have given can possibly be shown to say what you are claiming it does. Usually that is met with more derision and more opinion, rather than actual scriptural exegesis. I don't just ask for a careful walk-through of scripture for the fun of it...I'm quite serious about wanting to see your careful progression and how you see it all linking together. If you think it makes biblical sense...show me! Don't just tell me it does and label me a scoffer 'cause you can't be bothered taking the time to post it.

What saith the Scriptures? is such a vital question...

Naomi25 · Mar 1, 2019

Taken said:
Perhaps the one critical of my responses should jump in and satisfy the other poster with their own One liner Scripture, to the request posed, if that is possible.

I'm afraid you've lost me abit. I gather 'the one critical' is probably me. Is the 'other poster' you, or the one you were speaking to? That's a little vague.
Overall, however, I think your point was 'butt out', which, while a lovely way to respond on a site that is for entering into a conversation, I am happy to do.

Stranger · Mar 1, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
We disagree on so many things probably even the millennial reign. And that is okay. I’m not trying to force you to see it the same but only trying to help you understand where I’m coming from at least.

OT: The ministration of condemnation. Death. Adam was given all to subdue and was to be fruitful and multiply and he was fruitful and multiplied but it was multiplying sin. They saw they were naked physically and immediately shame came in. Vanity. Got to cover it up then shame will not be seen while the inward suffers. Everything became outward. Solomon’s temple was out of the trees of Lebanon which were “hewn down” no not bad but made of wood(man’s work which burns). Noah’s ark was made with man’s hands. The image in Daniel is all the kingdoms of man. They built and worshipped the work of man’s hands. All this given of God in the OT was good I’m not sayin it wasn’t but it all spoke of something better to come. The image in Daniel, all the kingdoms established throughout history ...the Pharisees with their works of goodness while oppressing others...what was made and built of man’s hands (the world)rejected The King of the Jews. The children of God were in the image in Daniel but those created in Christ were removed from man’s kingdoms (separated out by HIs flesh) born into God’s kingdom. The image in Daniel has one mind, one purpose, one body to serve the world and what man has built and yes given by God because all is given of God. Many times the word says these all operate and consent (agree)as one. Speaking one language (tongue): to curse.

Consider: Deuteronomy 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

Death and evil.? Condemnation. How can God group death and evil together when He gave us the OT and caused man to walk in its ways? Because He did...man never could meet the heavy burden, the heavy yoke laid upon His shoulders by all that vanity required yet the Law required much more in destruction unto death. God said “I AM going to lift the burden off man’s shoulders. I AM going to carry it upon My own shoulders.” Only the Spirit of God could fulfill all that was demanded and required. Yes, in a body of flesh prepared but in this, the Son, He threw down all man’s kingdoms of works of goodness where all is subdued under One which is Christ. Maybe you don’t like it but ...all that is death and sin and evil subdued under Love.

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

NT. Life and good. The ministration of righteousness. Peace. There is a new creature created in Christ. An express image of God in the Son. One body. Even one language that is pure. One tongue: to bless. One mind. Operating with one consent which is to agree with its head which is Christ. This Ark was created without the hands of man. This temple was made without hands. This circumcision made without hands. (If you agree God returns to a temple made with man’s hands. Does God also return to the circumcision made with man’s hands?)

Ephesians 4:13
[13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

Judges 6:16
[16] And the Lord said unto him, Surely I will be with thee, and thou shalt smite the Midianites as one man.

Judges 20:11
[11] So all the men of Israel were gathered against the city, knit together as one man.

Could go on with supportive scripture but operating as one man either in Christ ‘One Generation’ that is His 1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

“A chosen generation” ONE instead of many, one generation that is His generation without end. where man works no more and the burden is light, the yoke light in Christ...in Perfect love cast out fear, fear is torment...or in one man that opposes all that is God in favor of man sitting on the throne as king rather than God.

Sorry. Know that is a lot. But can’t see how God would remove this One man created in Christ when it is this One man created in Christ which subdues all and His fruit multiplies and covers the face of the earth. Or why God would go back(return) to a temple made by man’s hands when God has already done all the work to cast that temple down.

That temple hasn't been built yet, so it hasn't been cast down by God.

Stranger

Stranger · Mar 1, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
But it is more isn’t it? Luke 9:6 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Luke 9:60
[60] Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

“Let the dead bury their dead.” Remember in the OT when just by the confusion alone men slayed one another until all was defeated and taken down without so much as a fight from those God sent? Consider Paul’s words (inspired by the Holy Spirit) careful that you don’t bite and consume(devour) one another. “Let the dead bury their dead” BUT go thou and preach the kingdom of God: call those out of death into Life. Call those out of darkness into Light. “Careful that you don’t devour one another.”

No, it isn't more.

Stranger

Naomi25 · Mar 1, 2019

farouk said:
What saith the Scriptures? is such a vital question...

I agree, it IS a vital question, and in such matters it is always essential to go back to what the scriptures say. In the issue Enoch and I were talking about, 2 Thess 2, we see that it says this:

And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. -2 Thessalonians 2:6–8

Enoch, and most Dispensationalists would claim that the "restrainer" in this above passage HAS to be the Holy Spirit. Except, the text does not say this. And any other reference to the Antichrist or the man of sin, or the beast in scripture, does not reference the 'restrainer' for us to dig deeper and become more certain on this fact.
The ONLY thing the text allows us to know about this mysterious restrainer is that it is a "he", and that he must be taken out of the way. To read more into the text is being unfaithful to it and placing more on it and in it that we are permitted to do.
Now...I have invited Enoch, if she has other evidence or verses that she thinks holds biblical weight that supports her view that the restrainer MUST be the HS, to present it, but she does not.

Here is a list of biblical passages that mention the AC, but show us that we cannot glean anymore information about who this 'restrainer' is:

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. -2 Thessalonians 2:8

He shall speak words against the Most High,
and shall wear out the saints of the Most High,
and shall think to change the times and the law;
and they shall be given into his hand
for a time, times, and half a time. -Daniel 7:25

By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken—but by no human hand. -Daniel 8:25

“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. -Daniel 11:36

And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. [6] It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. -Revelation 13:5–6

Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. -1 John 2:18

and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. -1 John 4:3

CoreIssue · Mar 1, 2019

Naomi25 said:
I agree, it IS a vital question, and in such matters it is always essential to go back to what the scriptures say. In the issue Enoch and I were talking about, 2 Thess 2, we see that it says this:

And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. -2 Thessalonians 2:6–8

Enoch, and most Dispensationalists would claim that the "restrainer" in this above passage HAS to be the Holy Spirit. Except, the text does not say this. And any other reference to the Antichrist or the man of sin, or the beast in scripture, does not reference the 'restrainer' for us to dig deeper and become more certain on this fact.
The ONLY thing the text allows us to know about this mysterious restrainer is that it is a "he", and that he must be taken out of the way. To read more into the text is being unfaithful to it and placing more on it and in it that we are permitted to do.
Now...I have invited Enoch, if she has other evidence or verses that she thinks holds biblical weight that supports her view that the restrainer MUST be the HS, to present it, but she does not.

Here is a list of biblical passages that mention the AC, but show us that we cannot glean anymore information about who this 'restrainer' is:

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. -2 Thessalonians 2:8

He shall speak words against the Most High,
and shall wear out the saints of the Most High,
and shall think to change the times and the law;
and they shall be given into his hand
for a time, times, and half a time. -Daniel 7:25

By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken—but by no human hand. -Daniel 8:25

“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. -Daniel 11:36

And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. [6] It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. -Revelation 13:5–6

Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. -1 John 2:18

and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. -1 John 4:3

The reason the restrainer has to be the Holy Spirit is quite simple. No one else could be.

As for AC we have a lot of clues but cannot identify the specific person.

The AC beast rises out of the sea, meaning people.

He comes out of the Ten Toe nations which will join together as his empire. That is the EU.

He is the eighth king coming out of the seven heads of mystery Babylon. He is the head that was fatally wounded but returns to life.

That head is Greece, which is one of the 10 toes and the EU.

The specific king is Alexander the great, who died from a fatal head wound.

Of course, it must be the demon of Alexander otherwise you're talking resurrection, which cannot happen.

The history of Alexander the great matches the characteristics given about the AC.

Add to that, in the sixth bowl, we are told three foul spirits will come out the mouths of the AC, false prophet and dragon, which is the name of the AOD that Satan enters and brings to life.

This eliminates organizations, Satan and the Pope from being the AC.

I believe the person who will be the AC is alive and functioning in the EU today.

There is no mistaking the verses given above are talking about the 70th week of Daniel, the book of Revelation and other things covered in Daniel.

Taken · Mar 1, 2019

Naomi25 said:
I'm afraid you've lost me abit. I gather 'the one critical' is probably me. Is the 'other poster' you, or the one you were speaking to? That's a little vague.
Overall, however, I think your point was 'butt out', which, while a lovely way to respond on a site that is for entering into a conversation, I am happy to do.

I said no such thing. If you want to speak for me then do whatever you say...okay.

Glory to God,
Taken

n2thelight · Mar 1, 2019

historyb said:
Yes it has, the temple is gone.

When Christ returns that spot will be TOTALLY wiped out

Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

This will happen on "the day of the Lord". God will shake the earth and send fire and brimstone upon it. The earthquakes will flatten the cities to where not one stone will stand upon another. Those two great mountains will shake, and the mount of Olives will split. All prophecies concerning Christ return include Mount Zion, and the Mount of Olives will be fulfilled. This is where Christ's feet will touch the earth, when He returns.

When Jesus and His disciples were departing out of Jerusalem before he would be delivered up to be crucified, they asked Him what it would be like at His second coming.

Matthew 24:2 "And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things [Temple buildings]? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Sure the city of Jerusalem has been destroyed from time to time, but there are still many stones stacked upon each other from the original construction. A simple trip to Jerusalem reveals that, for the wailing wall is one of the most popular markings of that city. Before that time another temple shall be built, and the Antichrist shall rule from that spot.

Then at the seventh trumpet, and Jesus Christ's return there will be a great shaking that will level the city of Jerusalem. At that shaking not one stone will be left upon another. Yet God will make a way of escape for his elect on that day. Then the "east gate", the one facing the "sun to the temple" will open a way of escape for God's people. That way will be there, and this destruction is not to be feared by one of God's elect.

When to look for the rapture of the church

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Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

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