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Marymog

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The first place(S) of worship called A Church were not called A catholic church.

What defined an early place of worship as a Church, was that the Lord Jesus was being taught is the Christ Messiah.

The Jewish Apostle Peter was among a group of men chosen and appointed by Jesus to learn from Him, and then go out and teach and preach to Jews, The Gospel of Christ Jesus.

The catholic church from the Get-go, established itself claiming to be the FIRST Christian Church...and posthumously (without Peter"s knowledge) exalted Peter as theiir "holy father". And thereafter have "for centuries" elected a succession of "holy fathers".

Follow the history...
Men were attending "catholic churches" BEING TOLD what to believe.
The majority of the people were illiterate, copied Bibles were scarce, and few could afford a Bible, IF a copy was available.

In short - the people were left to rely on what they were told.

In fact - the 'catholic church council' had the opportunity to devise and teach all kinds of
Intricacies and portray them applicable to the new Covenant and Jesus' Doctrine, and the illiterate had no way to verify.

tt is well known, through the ages, illiteracy and afforadibility for the majority to have the ability to read and own a Bible has improved drastically.

It is also well know, the ability to read and own a Bible has not drastically improved that people actually read the Bible.

Looking back on history of a FEW, who could read, WHO had access to a Bible, WHO had been Taught by "hearing" Catholic clerics, began Verifying in the Bible, what they HAD been taught by "hearing", discrepancies, of what the Bible actually TAUGHT; and chose to challenge Catholic clerics; and eventually dissatisfied; broke away from the catholic church.

Not giving catholics all the credit for being lax in Reading and Verifying what they are told, however numerous polls indicate catholics rate high in tradition of believing what they are told, and rarely if ever read the Bible.

It is well known;
catholics teach to their congregates, to get their young children enrolled in being taught
A catholic prepared book of principles via a series prepared questions and prepared catholic acceptable answers.

Whereas a Protestant teaches to focus on Gods prepared Word and verify Gods Word with His word.

It is simply a matter of choice.
Do your own homework, or let someone else do it for you, and then tell you what to believe.

Glory to God,
Taken
Thank you for your opinion.
 

Marymog

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Having been employed as a researcher, so I am versed in the correct methodology at getting at the truth.

If one person says this, I note it. If two say the same thing I note it. If three say the same thing I note it. If a hundred say the same thing I note I am getting a trend. If 1,000 say the say thing I am getting concrete evidence.

I have yet to meet a Catholic on the three continents I have lived on say that you don't have to earn your salvation. ergo.
It doesn't matter what individual Catholic's on the three continents have to say about earning salvation. It only matters what their Church says. If they don't follow the teachings of the CC they are Catholic in name only.

A protestant, such as yourself, can shop around and decide what they want to believe is the truth. Scripture says The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth....not each individual.

If you are playing a numbers game to get "concrete evidence" of the truth (which you are doing) then you should accept the teachings of the Catholic/Orthodox Churche's since they FAR outnumber Protestants.

Taking it one step further
there are only a couple billion Christians in the world. That means 5 billion people have a different "truth". Their 'truth' is that Jesus isn't the Son of God. Based on your theory for the correct methodology at getting to the truth you should not be a Christian. Your theory suggest that the "concrete evidence" points you AWAY from Christianity as being The Truth. ;)

Mary
 
B

brakelite

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SDA/E.G. White lies . . . Catholics claim that Mary is God.

Where
do you get this nonsense - other than in the writings of your failed false prophetess Ellen. G. White??
You won't find that written in any SDA writing. Certainly not Ellen White. That's just me...following the same line of reasoning that claims Mary as the mother of God.
 

BreadOfLife

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You won't find that written in any SDA writing. Certainly not Ellen White. That's just me...following the same line of reasoning that claims Mary as the mother of God.
- Scripture tells us that Mary is the Mother of God.
- Scripture tells us that Mary is the Mother of Jesus (John 2:1, 19:26, Acts 1:14).
- Scripture tells us that Jesus is GOD (Psalm 110:1, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, 1 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 1:23, Mark 14:61-62, Luke 7:16, John 1:1, John 5:18, John 10:30, John 10:33, John 10:36, John 13:13, John 14:9-10).

Ergo, Mary is the Mother of GOD.
Nobody ever said she was the Mother of the Trinity, Einstein . . .
 

Taken

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Teaching Mary is the mother of Jesus, is Scripturally revealed.

Teaching Mary is the mother of Jesus,
and Jesus is revealed the Son of God,
and the Son of God is revealed the Christ,
and the Christ is revealed the Power of God, and the Power of God is revealed Spirit,
and the Spirit is revealed thee Holy God.

Does NOT by deduction Scripturally teach Mary is the Mother of God.

Mary was the mother of Jesus.
Mary is the created.
Jesus was revealed "in the LIKENESS", of men.

Phil 2
[7] ...in the likeness of men:

God revealed "the Heavenly God Himself" would be "A FATHER" to Jesus.

Heb 1
[5] ... I will be to him a Father...


Heb 7
[3] Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God;

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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mjrhealth

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I wish you would know Christ, truth and scripture so you would be free.

I am not angry.....just sad that you deny The Truth.

Yes says the blind leading the blind and they all fall in the ditch.
 

tabletalk

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Rev. 12:1
A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

This Woman is the ONLY being in Heaven in the Book of Revelation describes as having an entire Body - from head to toe.

Revelation was written by John, who also wrote the Gospel of John. In his Gospel, Jesus never refers to His mother as "Mother" - but "Woman" (John 2:4, John 19:25). Many Protestants I've debated say that He called her this out of disrespect. This is an asinine charge because that means Jesus would have been violating God's Commandment about HONORING His Mother.

In Gen. 3:15, we see God telling the serpent that the seed f the Woman would crush his head.
Jesus refers to His mother as "Woman" not only out of profound respect - but out of a sense of prophetic understanding. This is the "Woman" we see in Rev. 12:1 with an entire body in Heaven.

Thanks. But for an 'infallible' truth, I don't see much support for it in Scripture.
 

marksman

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It doesn't matter what individual Catholic's on the three continents have to say about earning salvation. It only matters what their Church says. If they don't follow the teachings of the CC they are Catholic in name only.

A protestant, such as yourself, can shop around and decide what they want to believe is the truth. Scripture says The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth....not each individual.

If you are playing a numbers game to get "concrete evidence" of the truth (which you are doing) then you should accept the teachings of the Catholic/Orthodox Churche's since they FAR outnumber Protestants.

Taking it one step further
there are only a couple billion Christians in the world. That means 5 billion people have a different "truth". Their 'truth' is that Jesus isn't the Son of God. Based on your theory for the correct methodology at getting to the truth you should not be a Christian. Your theory suggest that the "concrete evidence" points you AWAY from Christianity as being The Truth. ;)

Mary

Definitely mumbo jumbo personified.
 
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marksman

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It seems that the last few times you have replied or quoted me, you are looking for a fight. Your definition of Pelagianism is only half true. Sorry, but the Encyclopedia Britannica gives a more complete explanation, supporting what I said about the heresy.
"...Celestius, a disciple of Pelagius, denied the church’s doctrine of original sin and the necessity of infant Baptism.

Pelagianism was opposed by Augustine, bishop of Hippo, who asserted that human beings could not attain righteousness by their own efforts and were totally dependent upon the grace of God. Condemned by two councils of African bishops in 416, and again at Carthage in 418, Pelagius and Celestius were finally excommunicated in 418; Pelagius’ later fate is unknown.

The controversy, however, was not over. Julian of Eclanum continued to assert the Pelagian view and engaged Augustine in literary polemic until the latter’s death in 430. Julian himself was finally condemned, with the rest of the Pelagian party, at the Council of Ephesus in 431. Another heresy, known as Semi-Pelagianism (q.v.), flourished in southern Gaul until it was finally condemned at the second Council of Orange in 529.
Pelagianism | religious history

Yes, Original Sin is a doctrine you borrowed from us. It has developed over time, and has never changed its essence.

Since more and more Protestant communities are denying the doctrine of original sin, you should take a poll and find out how divided you guys are, since this thread is about division.

Please, Marksman, think before resorting to childish posturing against me.
Your aim is off.

Yes, your highness. Do let me know when I am allowed to comment.
 
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Marymog

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Definitely mumbo jumbo personified.
You said that you are versed in the correct methodology at getting at the truth.

You then said If 1,000 say the say thing I am getting concrete evidence.

I have used your own theory to come to a conclusion and that conclusion shows how ridiculous your theory is.


And this is the best response you have??? You can't even defend your own theory.....:(

Mary
 
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BreadOfLife

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Thanks. But for an 'infallible' truth, I don't see much support for it in Scripture.
And that's fine.
I don't see ANY support for Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Eternal Security and a host of other Protestant doctrines.
 

BreadOfLife

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Teaching Mary is the mother of Jesus, is Scripturally revealed.

Teaching Mary is the mother of Jesus,
and Jesus is revealed the Son of God,
and the Son of God is revealed the Christ,
and the Christ is revealed the Power of God, and the Power of God is revealed Spirit,
and the Spirit is revealed thee Holy God.

Does NOT by deduction Scripturally teach Mary is the Mother of God.

Mary was the mother of Jesus.
Mary is the created.
Jesus was revealed "in the LIKENESS", of men.

Phil 2
[7] ...in the likeness of men:

God revealed "the Heavenly God Himself" would be "A FATHER" to Jesus.

Heb 1
[5] ... I will be to him a Father...

Heb 7
[3] Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God;

Glory to God,
Taken
And you can try to rationalize it ALL day long - and you'll STILL be Biblically incorrect.

a. Jesus is GOD.
b. Mary is His Mother.
c. She is the Mother of the Son, who is GOD.

Christians believe in the hypostasis of Christ - that He unites to Himself TWO natures (Human and Divine) - and these two natures are INDIVISIBLE.
This is a BASIC tenet of Christianity - as basic as the Trinity itself.
 
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Marymog

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Thanks. But for an 'infallible' truth, I don't see much support for it in Scripture.
It is infallibly true that there is no infallible Truth?

It seems to me that is what you are saying.....
 

Taken

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And you can try to rationalize it ALL day long - and you'll STILL be Biblically incorrect.

a. Jesus is GOD.
b. Mary is His Mother.
c. She is the Mother of the Son, who is GOD.

Christians believe in the hypostasis of Christ - that He unites to Himself TWO natures (Human and Divine) - and these two natures are INDIVISIBLE.
This is a BASIC tenet of Christianity - as basic as the Trinity itself.

Anyone can read Scriptural Knowledge.

You read, you device, Jesus is the Christ, Christ is God, "THEREFOR" you "deduce";
Mary is the Mother of God.

It is your Natural LOGICAL carnal mind at work, landing you on the Same Doctrine you have been taught, via the SAME MINDFUL LOGICAL method.

Seemingly IGNORING:
The Carnal Mind is Against God.
The Carnal Mind is NOT capable of Figuring out Gods Spiritual UNDERSTANDING.
People can READ the KNOWLEDGE Jesus IS THE CHRIST...
However the FAITH and UNDERSTANDING. Jesus IS the Christ comes from God, not men.
When a man HAS Understanding from God;
They KNOW, God has NO MOTHER or FATHER or is DESCENDED from something else.

^^ That is undermined, when a religious sect Teaches;
Mary, a created thing, IS the Mother of God.
And the spin offs from individuals confounds the truth further.

Christians believe in the hypostasis of Christ - that He unites to Himself TWO natures (Human and Divine) - and these two natures are INDIVISIBLE.

And? Who decided that? And then began teaching it?

This is a BASIC tenet of Christianity .

And? Who decided that?
 

BreadOfLife

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Anyone can read Scriptural Knowledge.

You read, you device, Jesus is the Christ, Christ is God, "THEREFOR" you "deduce";
Mary is the Mother of God.

It is your Natural LOGICAL carnal mind at work, landing you on the Same Doctrine you have been taught, via the SAME MINDFUL LOGICAL method.

Seemingly IGNORING:
The Carnal Mind is Against God.
The Carnal Mind is NOT capable of Figuring out Gods Spiritual UNDERSTANDING.
People can READ the KNOWLEDGE Jesus IS THE CHRIST...
However the FAITH and UNDERSTANDING. Jesus IS the Christ comes from God, not men.
When a man HAS Understanding from God;
They KNOW, God has NO MOTHER or FATHER or is DESCENDED from something else.

^^ That is undermined, when a religious sect Teaches;
Mary, a created thing, IS the Mother of God.
And the spin offs from individuals confounds the truth further.
Until YOU can show me that Mary is NOT Jesus's Mother - you have LOST this argument.

She IS His Mother, according to Sacred Scripture (John 2:1, 19:26, Acts 1:14).
He IS God, according to Sacred Scripture (Psalm 110:1, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, 1 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 1:23, Mark 14:61-62, Luke 7:16, John 1:1, John 5:18, John 10:30, John 10:33, John 10:36, John 13:13, John 14:9-10).
And? Who decided that? And then began teaching it?
And? Who decided that?
The BIBLE teaches this.
WHO began teaching this? Christ and the Apostles (John 1:14, 1 Tim, 3:16, Col. 2:9, Heb. 1:8, Titus 2:13).

Maybe YOU should actually STUDY the Bible instead trying to simply use it as a weapon . . .
 
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Marymog

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You said you don't see any support for infallible truth in Scripture. Is your statement infallibly true?

If there is no infallible truth in Scripture then we can all decide what scripture means to us PERSONALLY...is that what you are saying???

I'm trying to figure out what you are saying.....sorry for all the questions. :(
 
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