Question about Jesus

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Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(lastray;53000)
was Jesus Present during creation ?
Yes.John 1:1, Genesis 1:1
 

lastray

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Jun 14, 2008
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thank you Before I answer you … I have another question :please : can you define the meaning of (the beginning ) ?
 

koulourakia_girl

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I would say the beginning of time...God exists outside of time and space...he is Spirit...and the term "beginning" is a time-reference....so I believe it refers to the beginning of Creation and Time itself....something outside of God Himself...
 

treeoflife

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thank you Before I answer you … I have another question :please : can you define the meaning of (the beginning ) ?
Before I answer, can you define the meaning of beginning?
 

Mighty Bear

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was Jesus Present during creation ?
No, because how could he delight if there was no children of men?Proverbs 8:31 ESV rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the children of man.This talks about the inhabitants and Jesus being the good sheperd.Hebrews 1:10-12 ESV And, "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; (11) they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, (12) like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end."This talks about the creation of a new heaven and a new earth.Psalms 2:7 ESV I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, "You are my Son; today I have begotten you.2 Peter 3:13 ESV But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.John 12:32 ESV And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
 

Mighty Bear

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These verses are connectedPsalms 2:7 ESV I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, "You are my Son; today I have begotten you.Colossians 1:15 ESV He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.Colossians 1:16 ESV For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.Colossians 1:17 ESV And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.Colossians 1:18 ESV And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.Colossians 1:19 ESV For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,Colossians 1:20 ESV and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.John 12:32 ESV And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
 

Red_Letters88

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Mighty Bear added some verses about- "today you will be my son" in psalms. Lets not forget Hebrews:Hebrews 1:8But to the Son he said, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom.Note in Hebrews 1:8 it starts in "but to the son he said..." Look a little further-just two verses ahead, still about the son- Hebrews 1:10And, You, Lord, in the beginning have laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of your hands:Romans 11:36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.John 1:2The same was in the beginning with God.John 1:3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.Revelation 1:8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, said the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.BTW Mighty Bear your reasoning for NO was- "No because how could he delight if there was no children of men"1. Verses I have shown show that you are in the fault with your understanding of the Son and his work2. Does the Lord our GOD need US- sinful humans- to be GOD- NO. Father, Son, Spirit were GOD, are GOD, and will forever be GOD
 

Mighty Bear

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BTW Mighty Bear your reasoning for NO was- "No because how could he delight if there was no children of men"1. Verses I have shown show that you are in the fault with your understanding of the Son and his work2. Does the Lord our GOD need US- sinful humans- to be GOD- NO. Father, Son, Spirit were GOD, are GOD, and will forever be GOD
That's not what I meant, creation means human beings and angels only, it means He was the first one created and how could God create Him without first creating where to put Him?Colossians 1:20 ESV and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
 

Mighty Bear

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Genesis 1:26And God said, Let us make man in our image.
Genesis 1:27 ESV So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
 

Mighty Bear

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Jesus is the potter and God provides the clay in this way Jesus is also a Creator.Isaiah 29:16 ESV You turn things upside down! Shall the potter be regarded as the clay, that the thing made should say of its maker, "He did not make me"; or the thing formed say of him who formed it, "He has no understanding"?
 

Red_Letters88

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Mighty Bear just answer this please- it will clear a lot of things up (and i think i already know your answer)Was Jesus created?
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Mighty Bear just answer this please- it will clear a lot of things up (and i think i already know your answer)Was Jesus created?
...The answer is no. Christ is God.
 

Mighty Bear

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Mighty Bear just answer this please- it will clear a lot of things up (and i think i already know your answer)Was Jesus created?
Then why God called Him "Morning Star"? (Revelation 22:16; Matthew 1:1), one characteristic of stars is they are created. God invented Death that's why He is not affected by it while Jesus was, He died.Job 38:7 ESV when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?Genesis 6:2 ESV the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.
 

Red_Letters88

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...The answer is no. Christ is God.
Yeah I agree Jag....but I think Mighty Bear has to be either JW or something similar. Mighty- did you completely overlook the earlier posts-including mine?
 

treeoflife

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Then why God called Him "Morning Star"? (Revelation 22:16; Matthew 1:1), one characteristic of stars is they are created. God invented Death that's why He is not affected by it while Jesus was, He died.Job 38:7 ESV when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?Genesis 6:2 ESV the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.
Sincerely... please interpret rightly. Being called the bright and morning star means that Jesus was created? Seriously, you are connecting those two? Well then, lets make all kinds of interesting conclusions...Exodus 15:3The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. I guess The LORD (Y@hovah) is a man of war. One characteristic of a man of war is that he was created.Revelation 5:5And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.One characteristic of a lion is, not only was it created, but it has a bushy main, sharp teeth, and sharp claws. Does Jesus have a bushy main, sharp teeth, and sharp claws, or am I drawing too much out of this one?....Jesus was the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world -- Revelation 13:8 . The foundation of the world preceded sin, obviously. Jesus didn't die BECAUSE OF SIN... Jesus died FOR OUR SIN, by God's amazing grace for us.
 

Mighty Bear

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Yeah I agree Jag....but I think Mighty Bear has to be either JW or something similar. Mighty- did you completely overlook the earlier posts-including mine?
Jesus is the Son of God Red_Letters88, so how could He have always existed? And I'm not JW. Did He not create Lucifer? Then why do you believe that Jesus wasn't created as they are both morning stars?Isaiah 14:12 GNB King of Babylon, bright morning star, you have fallen from heaven! In the past you conquered nations, but now you have been thrown to the ground.Revelation 22:16 ESV "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."Job 38:7 ESV when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
 

Mighty Bear

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Sincerely... please interpret rightly. Being called the bright and morning star means that Jesus was created? Seriously, you are connecting those two? Well then, lets make all kinds of interesting conclusions...Exodus 15:3The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. I guess The LORD (Y@hovah) is a man of war. One characteristic of a man of war is that he was created.Revelation 5:5And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.One characteristic of a lion is, not only was it created, but it has a bushy main, sharp teeth, and sharp claws. Does Jesus have a bushy main, sharp teeth, and sharp claws, or am I drawing too much out of this one?....Jesus was the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world -- Revelation 13:8 . The foundation of the world preceded sin, obviously. Jesus didn't die BECAUSE OF SIN... Jesus died FOR OUR SIN, by God's amazing grace for us.
Job 38:7 ESV when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?These are not ordinary angels because Jesus is also called the Son of God, although to be exact the begotten Son of God (Hebrews 1:5) and the morning stars they are not angels but gods made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26).
 

Christina

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Mighty bear You are losing me here Stars are of course somtimes Angels But these angels are the sons of God , we are told of different duties they may perform and We are told Satan was made the Full Patern Angels have free Will and one third of them Fell and followed Satan. We arent told of any master race of Angels.