Labor To Enter Into What Rest?

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Enoch111

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Not sure I follow your post. It is speaking about the eternal rest of the saints in the presence of God where exactly? In the New Jerusalem?
That is correct. The eternal home, and the eternal rest of the saints (the Church) is in the New Jerusalem. Redeemed and restored Israel on earth (the Promised Land) is for the twelve tribes of Israel in the Millennium and beyond.
 

Hidden In Him

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That is correct. The eternal home, and the eternal rest of the saints (the Church) is in the New Jerusalem. Redeemed and restored Israel on earth (the Promised Land) is for the twelve tribes of Israel in the Millennium and beyond.

My question there would be in what way does the New Jerusalem parallel the 7th day Sabbath? He uses the word σαββατισμὸς (i.e. "observance of the Sabbath rest") in Hebrews 4:9.
 
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marks

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But this is not an easy place to enter.....the door is narrow as well as the way. One needs to strive with God...to wrestle with God...like Jacob did. THEN we enter into Christ and ascend the ladder into heaven and into God's rest.

Really?

Or simply Trust Him?

Hebrews 4:3 "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world".

Much love!
mark
 
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Enoch111

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My question there would be in what way does the New Jerusalem parallel the 7th day Sabbath? He uses the word σαββατισμὸς (i.e. "observance of the Sabbath rest") in Hebrews 4:9.
When you go back to the original Sabbath -- God's Sabbath -- it all becomes crystal clear.

AFTER CREATION -- God *rested* (ceased from His creative works)

AFTER THE NEW CREATION -- God and Christ will *rest* (cease from their redemptive works).
 

icxn

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In Hebrews 4:9, believers in Christ were told that there remains a Sabbath rest unto the people of God, and in v.11 that they were to labor to enter into that rest.

What was it/ is it, and how were they/ are we to labor to enter into it?
I suspect what I'm about to say is not what you expect, but here it goes:

There are four different kinds of Sabbaths, each representing successive stages in our spiritual maturity. The first, the weekly Sabbath, is spiritually celebrated when, with God’s help (always) we cease from sinning in action. The seven week Sabbath, i.e. Pentecost, is celebrated when we also stop sinning inwardly by means of consent. Looking at a woman lustfully for example, even if not carried out physically it is still considered adultery (Matthew 5:28). The seven year Sabbath is properly celebrated when the mind no longer follows after the suggestions of evil thoughts and desires. Finally, the Jubilee, the fifty year Sabbath is celebrated when the mind has completely eradicated even from memory everything evil. Jubilee interpreted means ‘loosening of bonds of the living’ or ‘loosening of mourning of the living.’ When the mind is completely loosed from the bonds of sin it needs no longer mourn and can enter into the joy (and rest) of the Lord.

As to the how all of the above are accomplished, the stoning of the man that was collecting sticks on the Sabbath by the sons of Israel gives us the pattern. He is a symbol of the outward man, the will of the flesh that through the senses as if hands, collects the causes of sin, the sticks that flare up the passions (vices) in us and kindle the fire of hell that awaits us if we don’t repent. Sons of Israel are our good thoughts and actions that put to death the will of the flesh by means of God’s commandments (the stones). With these very stones we also built the tower of the virtues (Luke 14:28) and war against the Devil that attacks us with his 20 thousand (Luke 14:31). The number 20 symbolizes the world that is made of the 4 elements that attracts our 5 senses with the pleasures of the flesh (4 x 5 = 20). Twenty thousand or four cubits and a span i.e. five fingers (LXX 1 Samuel 17:4) is the stature or strength of this spiritual Goliath. By training our senses to observe and make good use of and not abuse God’s creation, we render them smooth (1 Samuel 17:40) and with the sling of abstinence we knock our enemy to the ground. Christ did it for us when He assumed our human nature (the five stones) from the streams of this life and using the Cross as a sling and the suffering of His flesh (sense of touch) as stone defeated the enemy with his own sword, the unjust death of His body. This enemy of ours, this strong man whom Christ plundered (Matthew 12:29) and bound in the abyss (bottomless pit) of His love, in the abyss (water) of our baptismal regeneration, chaining him with the links of His commandments, which He inscribed in the abyss of our heart so that he can no longer operate there, is yet allowed to be loosed and bring his seven generals (Matthew 12:45) according to the number of the seven deadly sins, for the purpose of our spiritual testing. These seven deadly sins operate in us in a three-fold manner after the three-fold division of our nature: soul (desire), heart (capacity for anger or love) and mind (Matthew 22:37). These correspond to the dragon (evil desire, gluttony, fornication, greed...), beast (anger, hatred, murder…) and false prophet (ignorance, falsehood, pride and other passions of the mind). Whoever is defeated by these in the microcosm of his being becomes part of the outward manifestation of these creatures. And while there are many possible historic manifestations and as many partial interpretations of Revelation, it is evident that the one that takes place in the inward man is what we need to focus on. "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.” (Ephesians 6:12)

Forgive me for going off on a tangent there, but as you can see everything is related. As long as some evil desire lingers in our soul or we nurture hatred in our heart towards our neighbor and/or pride in our mind, it is impossible to enter into the promised spiritual rest.
 
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Dave L

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Dave, you assume I'm not aware of the scriptures by which you establish your positions. Is it not possible that I'm also aware of a few others as well? Your posts reveal you have something of a one-track mind when it comes to discussing issues, and will not debate or discuss any scriptures aside from your favored verses... I get the impression that you would limit the Bible down to a just few select verses and eliminate everything else, since this is the way you "debate" on various issues.
If you had any scripture, you would have offered it by now. Jesus denied the pharisee's and your version of the kingdom time and again throughout the gospels.
 

Hidden In Him

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When you go back to the original Sabbath -- God's Sabbath -- it all becomes crystal clear.

AFTER CREATION -- God *rested* (ceased from His creative works)

AFTER THE NEW CREATION -- God and Christ will *rest* (cease from their redemptive works).

I suppose it's plausible, but I think the millennium has the better case. That Hebrews was addressed to Jewish Christians doesn't seem to have much bearing, Imo, since he was talking about a future Sabbath anyway.
 

Hidden In Him

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I suspect what I'm about to say is not what you expect, but here it goes:

There are four different kinds of Sabbaths, each representing successive stages in our spiritual maturity. The first, the weekly Sabbath, is spiritually celebrated when, with God’s help (always) we cease from sinning in action. The seven week Sabbath, i.e. Pentecost, is celebrated when we also stop sinning inwardly by means of consent. Looking at a woman lustfully for example, even if not carried out physically it is still considered adultery (Matthew 5:28). The seven year Sabbath is properly celebrated when the mind no longer follows after the suggestions of evil thoughts and desires. Finally, the Jubilee, the fifty year Sabbath is celebrated when the mind has completely eradicated even from memory everything evil. Jubilee interpreted means ‘loosening of bonds of the living’ or ‘loosening of mourning of the living.’ When the mind is completely loosed from the bonds of sin it needs no longer mourn and can enter into the joy (and rest) of the Lord.

As to the how all of the above are accomplished, the stoning of the man that was collecting sticks on the Sabbath by the sons of Israel gives us the pattern. He is a symbol of the outward man, the will of the flesh that through the senses as if hands, collects the causes of sin, the sticks that flare up the passions (vices) in us and kindle the fire of hell that awaits us if we don’t repent. Sons of Israel are our good thoughts and actions that put to death the will of the flesh by means of God’s commandments (the stones). With these very stones we also built the tower of the virtues (Luke 14:28) and war against the Devil that attacks us with his 20 thousand (Luke 14:31). The number 20 symbolizes the world that is made of the 4 elements that attracts our 5 senses with the pleasures of the flesh (4 x 5 = 20). Twenty thousand or four cubits and a span i.e. five fingers (LXX 1 Samuel 17:4) is the stature or strength of this spiritual Goliath. By training our senses to observe and make good use of and not abuse God’s creation, we render them smooth (1 Samuel 17:40) and with the sling of abstinence we knock our enemy to the ground. Christ did it for us when He assumed our human nature (the five stones) from the streams of this life and using the Cross as a sling and the suffering of His flesh (sense of touch) as stone defeated the enemy with his own sword, the unjust death of His body. This enemy of ours, this strong man whom Christ plundered (Matthew 12:29) and bound in the abyss (bottomless pit) of His love, in the abyss (water) of our baptismal regeneration, chaining him with the links of His commandments, which He inscribed in the abyss of our hearts so that he can no longer operate there, is yet allowed to be loosed and bring his seven generals (Matthew 12:45) according to the number of the seven deadly sins, for the purpose of our spiritually testing. These seven deadly sins operate in us in a three-fold manner after the three-fold division of our nature: soul (desire), heart (capacity for anger or love) and mind (Matthew 22:37). These correspond to the dragon (evil desire, gluttony, fornication, greed...), beast (anger, hatred, murder…) and false prophet (ignorance, falsehood, pride and other passions of the mind). Whoever is defeated by these in the microcosm of his being becomes part of the outward manifestation of these creatures. And while there are many possible historic manifestations and as many partial interpretations of Revelation, it is evident that the one that takes place in the inward man is what we need to focus on. "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.” (Ephesians 6:12)

Forgive me for going off on a tangent there, but as you can see everything is related. As long as some evil desire lingers in our soul or we nurture hatred in our heart towards our neighbor and/or pride in our mind, it is impossible to enter into the promised spiritual rest.

This interpretation seems to play off of the scripture "Take My yoke upon you, for My burden is light, and you shall find rest for your souls." It's elaborate, I must say. Much of it I would neither deny nor confirm. I'd only say that it stretches well beyond the scope of this current passage (both passages actually). The focus of the "rest" they speak of is connected specifically with the promised land and the 7th day Sabbath, so I was looking more for connections between those things. But thanks for the post anyway.
 

Hidden In Him

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If you had any scripture, you would have offered it by now. Jesus denied the pharisee's and your version of the kingdom time and again throughout the gospels.

Dave, go be annoying someplace else, LoL. You're like a mosquito: Always having little of value to offer, and nearly always taking away from conversations rather than adding anything of value to them, yet incessantly coming back around to be irritating once again. Do you have any hobbies besides this one? LoL.
 
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Dave L

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Dave, go be annoying someplace else, LoL. You're like a mosquito: Always having little of value to offer, and nearly always taking away from conversations rather than adding anything of value to them, yet incessantly coming back around to be irritating once again. Do you have any hobbies besides this one? LoL.
If I annoy you, it's because I support my position with scripture. And you cannot.
 

Episkopos

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Really?

Or simply Trust Him?

Hebrews 4:3 "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world".

Much love!
mark


Being passive is all too common in todays church. People say...Jesus did it all already. If someone is sick....let God heal them....let God bring revival and die for the world. I'll just sit back and claim my salvation ticket and exploit the sacrifice of Jesus to my heart's content.

But then there is this race of faith that Paul speaks of where he is seeking the fulness of Christ. Wasn't Paul "saved" already?

So you see that the modern church is fully out of touch with the kingdom of God.
 
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Hidden In Him

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If I annoy you, it's because I support my position with scripture. And you cannot.

No you don't! :) Admit it, you're just a troll. That's all you do on this Forum all day long. Troll, troll, troll, troll, troll...

Seriously, you're going to have to answer to God one day for it. Don't you have other hobbies that aren't offensive and annoying to people? I'm honesty asking you. You really need to think about it. I've learned to not get angry with you, since it's just the way you are, but I've never entertained this childishness of yours to make you think it was acceptable. After months and months and several exchanges with you, you are STILL in child mode with no end in sight. I believe it's because you have always gotten away with it.

The sad thing is that I don't see anyone stopping you from acting this way on the Forums either, so you will likely continue in it until you stand before the King of Kings to answer for it.

Oh, well. Others may not have warned you about it, but I didn't just let it slide. When you and I converse in eternity you will remember I didn't.

Could you surprise me for once and not post something that was childish and immature in response?
 
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Hidden In Him

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No response is good. Now if you can just try doing that a little more often before it gets to this point in the conversation, you'll have it licked.

Blessings, and I mean it for your good, not your harm.
Hidden
 
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marks

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People say...Jesus did it all already. If someone is sick....let God heal them....let God bring revival and die for the world. I'll just sit back and claim my salvation ticket and exploit the sacrifice of Jesus to my heart's content.

This is a straw man argument. I'm not saying that.

I'm saying, we are to trust in Jesus for our salvation. We do not and cannot add to what Jesus did on our behalf, wholy ours by believing. And to trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins, and for the hope of the resurrection, to simply trust in these things, this is to enter the rest.

Much love!
mark
 

Enoch111

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That Hebrews was addressed to Jewish Christians doesn't seem to have much bearing, Imo, since he was talking about a future Sabbath anyway.
Actually it does have a great bearing on the subject. Abraham was a Hebrew, and this is what we read about him: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. (Heb 11:10)

There is only one enormous city which has twelve foundations, and whose builder and maker is God. That is the New Jerusalem. Therefore we find all the OT saints (including Abraham) in that city, and described as "the spirits of just men made perfect" (Heb 12:23).
 
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Episkopos

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This is a straw man argument. I'm not saying that.

I'm saying, we are to trust in Jesus for our salvation. We do not and cannot add to what Jesus did on our behalf, wholy ours by believing. And to trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins, and for the hope of the resurrection, to simply trust in these things, this is to enter the rest.

Much love!
mark


Not so much. We are called to follow Him...and that means going where He is...not just remaining where we are and as we are.

Faith involves action and motion. It is belief that is static. We are to STRIVE to enter into that rest....not just relax into a sort of non caring and passive state that we may consider the same as rest. God's rest is in a supernatural place.
 
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marks

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Not so much. We are called to follow Him...and that means going where He is...not just remaining where we are and as we are.

Faith involves action and motion. It is belief that is static. We are to STRIVE to enter into that rest....not just relax into a sort of non caring and passive state that we may consider the same as rest. God's rest is in a supernatural place.

While it may seem evident, having entered into the rest, we rest.

Going where He is . . . or going with Him?

And I never said anything about that we remain as we are. Those were not my words.

Non caring and passive state - again, your words, not mine. Please don't confuse my words with yours.

But again, having entered into the rest - resting in the finished work of Christ - we rest.

As far as "where we are", we are "in Christ", and we remain exactly there. And yes, very supernatural!

Much love!
mark