Divisions

Taken said:

LOL ~ Typical!
Invent an Argument, then pretend you have WON the Argument!!

I already said Scripture teaches Mary was the Mother of Jesus! Post #255.

Maybe YOU should pay attention to what Scripture actually teaches, instead of investing your beliefs in corrupt claims.
Mary "was" the mother of Jesus.

Mary "is NOT" the mother of God.

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100% opinion - with ZERO Scriptural proof.
Mary WAS and IS the Mother of Jesus, the Son of God.

Try again . . .

BreadOfLife said:

Definitely a non-answer . . .

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Definitely a pun-answer

Marymog said:

You said that you are versed in the correct methodology at getting at the truth.

You then said If 1,000 say the say thing I am getting concrete evidence.

I have used your own theory to come to a conclusion and that conclusion shows how ridiculous your theory is.

And this is the best response you have??? You can't even defend your own theory.....

Mary

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I didn't say "If 1,000 say the say thing...."

Taken said:

Mary "is NOT" the mother of God.

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Correct. God is the triune Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In the NT God (Theos) generally means God the Father. So Mary is correctly called "the mother of Jesus" in the NT, never "the mother of God".

However, Maryolatry entered into the the Orthodox and Catholic churches quite early. The Council of Ephesus (431 AD)proclaim Mary to be "Theotokos" (Mother of God).

113 Canon. 1. If anyone does not confess that God is truly Emmanuel, and that on this account the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (for according to the flesh she gave birth to the Word of God become flesh by birth), let him be anathema (condemned, i.e. excommunicated).

Then the Catholic church added the Immaculate Conception and the Perpetual Virginity concepts, and the dogma of Mary went on and on, until she was regarded as the Queen of Heaven. However, according to the Bible, a pagan goddess -- Ashtaroth or Astarte -- was called "queen of heaven" .

But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.

And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?...

Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows. (Jer 44:17-19; 25).

Marymog said:

I have been trying to help you out of that ditch but you keep refusing my help.....

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Lady I would not ask for your help if I was being eating by crocodiles, you have nothing to offer but a worse alternative, death and separation from God, and that you can keep to yourself.

Marymog said:

You said you don't see any support for infallible truth in Scripture. Is your statement infallibly true?

If there is no infallible truth in Scripture then we can all decide what scripture means to us PERSONALLY...is that what you are saying???

I'm trying to figure out what you are saying.....sorry for all the questions.

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I, like the Pope and the Virgin Mary, am fallible. So, my statements are fallible. And my faith in the Scriptures, and the Son of God, is fallible also.
Comes down to faith, again and again.

tabletalk said:

I, like the Pope and the Virgin Mary, am fallible. So, my statements are fallible. And my faith in the Scriptures, and the Son of God, is fallible also.
Comes down to faith, again and again.

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Amen. Even our mistaken faith, when we misread scripture or misunderstand His leading, does not negate the power of God in our lives inasmuch that "all things work together for good". Even our mistakes are for our learning. They keep us humble. The people we need to beware of are the ones who profess to making no mistakes because they are infallible. God save us all from spiritual pride and arrogance.

mjrhealth said:

Lady I would not ask for your help if I was being eating by crocodiles, you have nothing to offer but a worse alternative, death and separation from God, and that you can keep to yourself.

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Lol. Maybe a little help? Like perhaps a phone call or something? Or create a distraction like jumping up and down in panic?

CoreIssue said:

But Catholicism says she is the mother of God and gives her a throne in heaven. Even calls her the queen of heaven.

Not to mention prays to her.

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Prayer to Mary and the saints in Heaven is simply a request for them to pray FOR us.

Pull out your dictionary and look up the word "Pray".
This what you'll find:
Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary
Pray
verb \ˈprā\
Full Definition of pray
transitive verb
1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea<pray be careful>
2: to get or bring by praying

intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

If you're honest - which YOU are usually NOT - you'll see that "worship" and "adoration" are SECONDARY definitions. The PRIMARY definition simply means to ASK.

As for Mary having a throne - she has a CROWN in Scripture (Rev. 12:1).
ALL of the Davidic Kings starting with Solomon elevated their MOTHER to the level of Queen (1 Kings 2:19-20).

Enoch111 said:

Correct. God is the triune Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In the NT God (Theos) generally means God the Father. So Mary is correctly called "the mother of Jesus" in the NT, never "the mother of God".

However, Maryolatry entered into the the Orthodox and Catholic churches quite early. The Council of Ephesus (431 AD)proclaim Mary to be "Theotokos" (Mother of God).

113 Canon. 1. If anyone does not confess that God is truly Emmanuel, and that on this account the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (for according to the flesh she gave birth to the Word of God become flesh by birth), let him be anathema (condemned, i.e. excommunicated).

Then the Catholic church added the Immaculate Conception and the Perpetual Virginity concepts, and the dogma of Mary went on and on, until she was regarded as the Queen of Heaven. However, according to the Bible, a pagan goddess -- Ashtaroth or Astarte -- was called "queen of heaven" .

But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.

And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?...

Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows. (Jer 44:17-19; 25).

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As usual - your post is FILLED with dishonesty and flat-out LIES.

First of all - you got the term "Theotokos" wrong - which does NOT surprise me.
It doesn't mean "Mother of God". It means "God-bearer". This doctrine is more about JESUS than it is about Mary.

If you had done your homework instead of relying on your ignorance - you would understand the purpose of the Council of Ephesus in 431. It was to combat the Nestorian Heresy, which held that Jesus was not divine, but merely human and that God only dwelt in Him as in a temple. The Council defined the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union, which states that Christ unites to Himself TWO natures - Human and Divine. thes 2 natures are INDIVISIBLE.

As such, Mary did not give birth to a "nature" any more than YOUR mother gave birth to a nature.
She gave birth to the FULL Christ who is BOTH God and man. THIS is why she was declared Theotokos, Einstein . . .

Finally - as to your comparison between Mary and the Egyptian goddess in (Jer 44:17-19; 25) - your asinine little game falls FLAT on its face because you are arguing apples and oranges. One is a pagan goddess and the other is Mary, Mother of Christ. Nobody is burning incense to Mary, Queen of Heaven.
This is yet another case where - had you done your homework instead of relying on your pathetic ignorance of Scripture - you would have understood what Mary's role as Queen is.
Allow me to educate you . . .

In the Davidic Kingdom, the wife of the King was not the Queen – but rather, his mother was elevated to that station. The title "Gebirah", meaning “Great Lady” or “Queen Mother” was a royal title and an office which was bestowed upon the mothers of the Kings of Israel but only to those in the line of David.

Jesus Christ is the heir of David. He is the fulfillment of the covenant promises made to David in 2 Samuel 7:16; 23:5, and repeated to Mary in Luke 1:26-36. Mary’s son rules from the Kingdom of the heavenly Jerusalem. It is fitting that His mother should enjoy the same role that other Davidic Queen mothers enjoyed, that is the royal office of the heavenly Gebirah. This is the understanding that Catholics have when calling her “Queen of Heaven”.

1 Kings 2:19-20 tells us:
So Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him about Adonijah; the king got up to meet her and bowed before her; he then sat down on his throne; a seat was brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down on his right.
“There is one small favor I would ask of you,” she said. “Do not refuse me.” “Ask it, my mother,” the king said to her, “for I will not refuse you.”

Just as with the Davidic Kingdom, as Jesus is the King, Mary is the Queen Mother.

BreadOfLife said:

It doesn't mean "Mother of God". It means "God-bearer". This doctrine is more about JESUS than it is about Mary.

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What it means literally has been interpreted to mean Mother of God. This is confirmed by a Catholic source:

From antiquity, Mary has been called "Theotokos", or "God-Bearer" (Mother of God). The word in Greek is "Theotokos". The term was used as part of the popular piety of the early first millennium church.
Mother of God (Theotokos) - Mary, Mother of God - Catholic Online

So you are the one who is dishonest and full of lies.

Enoch111 said:

What it means literally has been interpreted to mean Mother of God. This is confirmed by a Catholic source:

From antiquity, Mary has been called "Theotokos", or "God-Bearer" (Mother of God). The word in Greek is "Theotokos". The term was used as part of the popular piety of the early first millennium church.
Mother of God (Theotokos) - Mary, Mother of God - Catholic Online

So you are the one who is dishonest and full of lies.

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The Greek term θεοτόκος (Tehotokos) as sometimes used as a synonym for Mother of God - but the term θεο means God and τόκος literally means to "beget" or to "bear".
θεο = God
τόκος = Bearer

Anyway, as I told you before - this doctrine is more about CHRIST than it is about Mary.
The Council of Ephesus was convened to settle the matter about HIS divinity and humanity - NOT hers. It was to settle the matter of the Nestorian Heresy.

Taken said:

You have not shown a Scripture that says;
"Mary is the mother of God".
It is you who has failed to provide Scripture that claims "Mary is the mother of God".
Try again...

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And, as I stated before - unless you reject the idea that Jesus is God - then Mary IS the Mother of God.

Not that difficult to comprehend:
a. Jesus is God.
b. His Mother's name is "Mary".
c. Ergo, Mary is the Mother of Jesus, who is God.

This is Christianity 101 . . .

Taken said:

Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Mary is not the mother of God, and nowhere does Scripture teach such.
It is Catholics that teach that, NOT Scripture, and WHY you can not quote any Scripture saying that.

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I beg to differ . . .

Scripture absolutely teaches that Jesus is God.
Scripture absolutely teaches that Mary is His Mother.
Scripture therefore teaches that Mary is the Mother of God.

She is not the Mother of the Trinity, Einstein - only the Son, and the Son is GOD.