Labor To Enter Into What Rest?

VictoryinJesus · Mar 6, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
"Be diligent" would be the more accurate translation.

There is something here maybe in regards to your topic: consider Moses put a vail over his face, THAT the children of Israel could not look to the end of that which is abolished. Their minds were blinded.
Compare to: But he that lacketh these things is blind(vailed), and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Question being can someone put the vail of flesh God has removed back over their eyes to be blinded Spiritually and unable to see far off?

2 Corinthians 3:13-15
[13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: [14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

2 Peter 1:3-11
[3] According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: [4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. [8] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: [11] For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

For an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly ...enter in to His rest.

VictoryinJesus · Mar 6, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
Hi, Victory. That passage is actually talking about literally resting from their labors after suffering physical death. That's a different thing than I think you may have been trying to argue for.

That is one way of seeing it yes. Of course. But can it be denied: blessed are those that are dead and buried in the Lord, that they may rest from dead works and are resurrected to walk in newness of life to serve the living God and His works do follow them.

Mark 16:17-18
[17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Revelation 14:13
[13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Waiting on him · Mar 6, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
There is something here maybe in regards to your topic: consider Moses put a vail over his face, THAT the children of Israel could not look to the end of that which is abolished. Their minds were blinded.
Compare to: But he that lacketh these things is blind(vailed), and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Question being can someone put the vail of flesh God has removed back over their eyes to be blinded Spiritually and unable to see far off?

2 Corinthians 3:13-15
[13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: [14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

2 Peter 1:3-11
[3] According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: [4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. [8] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: [11] For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

For an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly ...enter in to His rest.

Simple STUDY THE WORD

Waiting on him · Mar 6, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
That is one way of seeing it yes. Of course. But can it be denied: blessed are those that are dead and buried in the Lord, that they may rest from dead works and are resurrected to walk in newness of life to serve the living God and His works do follow them.

Revelation 14:13
[13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

What’s reveAled through study is the works of the Spirit

VictoryinJesus · Mar 6, 2019

Waiting on him said:
STUDY THE WORD

Matthew 11:29
[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

VictoryinJesus · Mar 6, 2019

Waiting on him said:
What’s reveAled through study is the works of the Spirit

Vail or veil ...removed. The blind receive sight.

Hidden In Him · Mar 6, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
Question being can someone put the vail of flesh God has removed back over their eyes to be blinded Spiritually and unable to see far off?

Actually, yes they can, Victory. Your 2nd Peter passage says they can:

VictoryinJesus said:
[9] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: [11] For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

What Peter was teaching here is that those believers who did not reinforce their faith with virtue, knowledge, temperance, godliness, etc would fall back into a kind of spiritual blindness, by forgetting that their sins had been cleansed during water baptism. It's what happens when a guilty conscience because of what WE have done (or been failing to do) overpowers faith in what CHRIST has done for us.

Waiting on him · Mar 6, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
Actually, yes they can, Victory. Your 2nd Peter passage says they can:

What Peter was teaching here is that those believers who did not reinforce their faith with virtue, knowledge, temperance, godliness, etc would fall back into a kind of spiritual blindness, by forgetting that their sins had been cleansed during water baptism. It's what happens when a guilty conscience because of what WE have done (or been failing to do) overpowers faith in what CHRIST has done for us.

Christ never baptized anyone with water

Hidden In Him · Mar 6, 2019

Waiting on him said:
Christ never baptized anyone with water

?
I meant what Christ has done for us by shedding His blood. We are baptized into Christ's death and resurrection into newness of life when we are baptized, made possible by His sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins.

ScottA · Mar 6, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
Hey, Scott. I don't think the scriptures ever discuss laboring to be born of the Spirit. They speak of us already being born in the Spirit through the word, and therefore needing to walk in what we have already been born into.

His words are spirit. The idea of "labor pains" is not just me talking, but God in his word. I was just stating what He has already said and should be clear.

VictoryinJesus · Mar 6, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
Actually, yes they can, Victory. Your 2nd Peter passage says they can:

What Peter was teaching here is that those believers who did not reinforce their faith with virtue, knowledge, temperance, godliness, etc would fall back into a kind of spiritual blindness, by forgetting that their sins had been cleansed during water baptism. It's what happens when a guilty conscience because of what WE have done (or been failing to do) overpowers faith in what CHRIST has done for us.

Hebrews 6:4-8
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [7] For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: [8] But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Deuteronomy 30:19
[19] I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

James 3:10
[10] Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Romans 12:14
[14] Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

Consider the OT and death and curse...all pertaining to flesh and sin. The children are of LIFE. Not of death which is done away with in Christ. They bless and curse not.

Ezekiel 24:13
[13] In thy filthiness is lewdness: because I have purged thee, and thou wast not purged, thou shalt not be purged from thy filthiness any more, till I have caused my fury to rest upon thee.—it is good.

Consider: John 3:36
[36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Does wrath abide? Or does peace abide? To enter into His rest is to abide in Christ. life, peace, and blessing. It is better to give mercy than to receive mercy. Flesh receives mercy. the Spirit gives mercy. A life-giving Spirit. Luke 9:54-56 And when his disciples James and John saw this , they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? [55] But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. [56] For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them . And they went to another village.

ScottA · Mar 6, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
Maybe ‘travail’ brought on by God. ‘labour’ pains of His doing and not our own labour(ing)?

By His grace we suffer labor in a miraculous birth at His hand. In the end the sorrows will not remain. Life is good!

Hidden In Him · Mar 6, 2019

ScottA said:
The idea of "labor pains" is not just me talking, but God in his word.

I think you're confusing analogies again. The labor pains analogy was often used with regard to sudden anguish that would come upon people (usually the wicked):

______________________________________________
Isaiah 13:8
They will be terrified, Pains and anguish will take hold of them; They will writhe like a woman in labor, They will look at one another in astonishment, Their faces aflame.

Psalm 48:6
Panic seized them there, Anguish, as of a woman in childbirth.

Jeremiah 13:21
"What will you say when He appoints over you-- And you yourself had taught them-- Former companions to be head over you? Will not pangs take hold of you like a woman in childbirth?

Jeremiah 22:23
"You who dwell in Lebanon, Nested in the cedars, How you will groan when pangs come upon you, Pain like a woman in childbirth!

Jeremiah 30:6
'Ask now, and see If a male can give birth. Why do I see every man With his hands on his loins, as a woman in childbirth? And why have all faces turned pale?

Jeremiah 49:24
"Damascus has become helpless; She has turned away to flee, and panic has gripped her; Distress and pangs have taken hold of her Like a woman in childbirth.

Jeremiah 50:43
"The king of Babylon has heard the report about them, And his hands hang limp; Distress has gripped him, and agony like a woman in childbirth.

Isaiah 21:3
For this reason my loins are full of anguish; Pains have seized me like the pains of a woman in labor. I am so bewildered I cannot hear, so terrified I cannot see.

Jeremiah 6:24
We have heard the report of it; Our hands are limp anguish has seized us, Pain as of a woman in childbirth.

1 Thessalonians 5:3
While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.

Mark 13:8
"For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
_____________________________

Now the apostle Paul used the analogy of being in labor until Christ would be formed in the Galatians (Galatians 4:19), but that's because he anguished in prayer over them to be fully formed in them. ("My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you"). That's a different thing than conception. He's talking about He who was already in them becoming fully formed.

CoreIssue · Mar 6, 2019

There are many who know about God knowing God.

There are those who tasted the abundance of the Holy Spirit through those around them, maybe even sharing in it. But never possessing.

When such walk away there's no hope for them to come back and progress to salvation.

I've known a few people like that. They hate God, his Bible and his people. They are truly empty inside.

It all boils down to who their loyalty belongs to. For them it is themselves only.

VictoryinJesus · Mar 6, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
The labor pains analogy was often used with regard to sudden anguish that would come upon people (usually the wicked):

Usually the wicked...wasn’t that all flesh?

Romans 3:19-20
[19] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Birth pangs are good...

VictoryinJesus · Mar 6, 2019

Luke 10:40-42
[40] But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. [41] And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: [42] But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

What is taken away?
What is not taken away?

ScottA · Mar 6, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
I think you're confusing analogies again. The labor pains analogy was often used with regard to sudden anguish that would come upon people (usually the wicked):

______________________________________________
Isaiah 13:8
They will be terrified, Pains and anguish will take hold of them; They will writhe like a woman in labor, They will look at one another in astonishment, Their faces aflame.

Psalm 48:6
Panic seized them there, Anguish, as of a woman in childbirth.

Jeremiah 13:21
"What will you say when He appoints over you-- And you yourself had taught them-- Former companions to be head over you? Will not pangs take hold of you like a woman in childbirth?

Jeremiah 22:23
"You who dwell in Lebanon, Nested in the cedars, How you will groan when pangs come upon you, Pain like a woman in childbirth!

Jeremiah 30:6
'Ask now, and see If a male can give birth. Why do I see every man With his hands on his loins, as a woman in childbirth? And why have all faces turned pale?

Jeremiah 49:24
"Damascus has become helpless; She has turned away to flee, and panic has gripped her; Distress and pangs have taken hold of her Like a woman in childbirth.

Jeremiah 50:43
"The king of Babylon has heard the report about them, And his hands hang limp; Distress has gripped him, and agony like a woman in childbirth.

Isaiah 21:3
For this reason my loins are full of anguish; Pains have seized me like the pains of a woman in labor. I am so bewildered I cannot hear, so terrified I cannot see.

Jeremiah 6:24
We have heard the report of it; Our hands are limp anguish has seized us, Pain as of a woman in childbirth.

1 Thessalonians 5:3
While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.

Mark 13:8
"For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
_____________________________

Now the apostle Paul used the analogy of being in labor until Christ would be formed in the Galatians (Galatians 4:19), but that's because he anguished in prayer over them to be fully formed in them. ("My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you"). That's a different thing than conception. He's talking about He who was already in them becoming fully formed.

You are tipping the scales according to your own perception of what is written, but not presenting all that is written. But, the scales are not tipped:

"for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

"Truly, truly, I say to you, you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice. You will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will turn into joy. When a woman is giving birth, she has sorrow because her hour has come, but when she has delivered the baby, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world. So also you have sorrow now, but I will see you again, and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy from you."

And tell me, what do you know of "the third day" theme presented by Christ, and have you not considered:

"Then it happened, the third day after I had given birth, that this woman also gave birth. And we were together; no one was with us in the house, except the two of us in the house?"

Or, "So when her days were fulfilled for her to give birth, indeed there were twins in her womb?"

Read on, and quote the word, but it is best not to tip the scales.

VictoryinJesus · Mar 6, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
Usually the wicked...wasn’t that all flesh?

Romans 3:19-20
[19] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Birth pangs are good...

Correction needed maybe ...Are there two labour pains and what is brought forth? Isaiah 59:4-5 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity. [5] They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.

Isaiah 33:11-13
[11] Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you. [12] And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire. [13] Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.

Still good in:
1 Corinthians 5:5
[5] To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Hidden In Him · Mar 6, 2019

ScottA said:
You are tipping the scales according to your own perception of what is written, but not presenting all that is written. But, the scales are not tipped:

I'm not "tipping the scales" LoL. I was just presenting to you how the analogy is normally used in scripture.

Never mind. Not a big deal.

ScottA · Mar 6, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
I'm not "tipping the scales" LoL. I was just presenting to you how the analogy is normally used in scripture.

Never mind. Not a big deal.

You presented only part of the scriptures pertaining to the subject. If you were trying to make a point - you did. That is, that part of the word, is not the whole truth.

Labor To Enter Into What Rest?

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