Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

CoreIssue · Mar 9, 2019

justbyfaith said:
I do not believe in modes, so I must be a Trinitarian. .

I do emphasize that the Lord is one according to the first and great commandment, Mar 12:29.

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Elohim means three or more in the unity of one.

justbyfaith said:
The Son in His preincarnate state, was, in fact, the everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6, Ephesians 3:11, Hebrews 13:8).

Where have I gone to the creeds?

CoreIssue · Mar 9, 2019

justbyfaith said:
The Son in His preincarnate state, was, in fact, the everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6, Ephesians 3:11, Hebrews 13:8).

Where have I gone to the creeds?

Sorry, that was meant for Dave L.

Before the incarnation there was no Jesus Christ.

The second person of the Trinity entered the created flesh of Jesus Christ at the incarnation. So no pre-incarnated form.No son of God since that is Jesus Christ just as Adam was son of God.

justbyfaith · Mar 9, 2019

I believe that the Father took on an added nature of human flesh in the incarnation of God. This incarnation is the 2nd Person of the Trinity. The 1st Person being Christ in His pre-incarnate form; the Father who inhabiteth eternity.

Dave L · Mar 10, 2019

CoreIssue said:
Do you mean polytheism?

I understand what you're getting at and agree.

The pre-incarnate son what's the second person of the eternity, not Jesus Christ.

Why do you keep going to the creeds instead of the Bible?

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Jesus Christ is the NT name for YAHWEH, the triune God. Also the name for the Son of Man who spoke in the second person of the trinity as the eternal Son of God.

Creeds are tested and refined statements about what the bible says. Proven through intense debate over many years in some cases. Nearly 10 years invested in the Westminster Confession involving hundreds of the most learned theologians.

justbyfaith · Mar 10, 2019

There is one God: even the Father

Jas 3:9, Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

Rom 15:6, That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Eph 4:6, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

101G · Mar 12, 2019

justbyfaith said:
There is one God: even the Father

Jas 3:9, Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

Rom 15:6, That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Eph 4:6, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

thanks for the reply, one Person one God, or two person one God, or three person one God.

scripture,
A. Isa 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

B. Isa 44:6"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

C. Isa 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

in these verses above, is it this same PERSON who is the "first" and the Last?", or is it two persons, or three persons. who is the "First" and the Last".

PICJAG

justbyfaith · Mar 12, 2019

It is the same Person, who is distinctly two Persons; these distinct Persons being the same Person.

The first is both the last and with the last.

CoreIssue · Mar 12, 2019

Dave L said:
I'm not sure what you are getting at. Jesus Christ is the NT name for YAHWEH, the triune God. Also the name for the Son of Man who spoke in the second person of the trinity as the eternal Son of God.

Creeds are tested and refined statements about what the bible says. Proven through intense debate over many years in some cases. Nearly 10 years invested in the Westminster Confession involving hundreds of the most learned theologians.

You and your creeds.

I was addressing the reference to tritheism.

Dave L · Mar 13, 2019

CoreIssue said:
You and your creeds.

I was addressing the reference to tritheism.

If you understood the creeds, how they came about, and how they serve as an accurate guide through the bible, you would be blessed. They are a safety net you can check yourself against that will keep you from drinking someone else's Kool-aid.

101G · Mar 13, 2019

justbyfaith said:
It is the same Person, who is distinctly two Persons; these distinct Persons being the same Person.

The first is both the last and with the last.

GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, yes, it's the same person, but how did the ONE in the same Person become two distinct persons?.

PICJAG

Dave L · Mar 13, 2019

101G said:
GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, yes, it's the same person, but how did the ONE in the same Person become two distinct persons?.

PICJAG

God is not a split personality.

101G · Mar 13, 2019

Dave L said:
God is not a split personality.

so again we can take this as you know nothing.......

now since you're stuck on personality, and have no clue, we will enlighten you.... lol.

scripture, Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high".

the express image of his "PERSON", is his character, or characteristics, which means he have the "SAME" character, or characteristics ......

lol. so it's not split, but the same .... lol, and you have no clue as how his personality, his character, or his characteristics are the same........

dave boy o boy, you know nothing of Christ do you?.

PICJAG.

Dave L · Mar 13, 2019

101G said:
so again we can take this as you know nothing.......

now since you're stuck on personality, and have no clue, we will enlighten you.... lol.

scripture, Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high".

the express image of his "PERSON", is his character, or characteristics, which means he have the "SAME" character, or characteristics ...... lol. so it's not split, but the same .... lol, and you have no clue as how his personality, his character, or his characteristics are the same........

dave boy o boy, you know nothing of Christ do you?.

PICJAG.

You are at odds with the whole Church, dividing off into a sect even the Assemblies of God called heretics and threw out. And now you are claiming God has a split personality like "Norman Bates" in the movie "Psycho". Norman split into being the "Mother", and split again into "Norman", just as you depict God "splitting" into your crazy depiction of him.

101G · Mar 13, 2019

Dave L said:
You are at odds with the whole Church, dividing off into a sect even the Assemblies of God called heretics and threw out. And now you are claiming God has a split personality like "Norman Bates" in the movie "Psycho". Norman split into being the "Mother", and split again into "Norman", just as you depict God "splitting" into your crazy depiction of him.

LOL, we're not at odd with the church of God that our saviour built. we are free men.

it's you who is at odd with yourself. finding out you're in the sect that the Lord Jesus stand against.

see dave what you thought was right is now you're finding out is not the truth. you and many like you is what the bible says about the like, Jas 1:8 "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways".

PICJAG.

Dave L · Mar 13, 2019

101G said:
LOL, we're not at odd with the church of God that our saviour built. we are free men.

it's you who is at odd with yourself. finding out you're in the sect that the Lord Jesus stand against.

see dave what you thought was right is now you're finding out is not the truth. you and many like you is what the bible says about the like, Jas 1:8 "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways".

PICJAG.

So everyone including the Apostles were wrong until the AOG gave your cult the boot in the 1900s for your Antichrist views? And now you are THE Church?

101G · Mar 13, 2019

Dave L said:
So everyone including the Apostles were wrong until the AOG gave your cult the boot in the 1900s for your Antichrist views? And now you are THE Church?

LOL, the apostle knew that Jesus was God, and the church disciples also knew this.

and as for a cult......... you must be in one ....

PICJAG

Dave L · Mar 13, 2019

101G said:
LOL, the apostle knew that Jesus was God, and the church disciples also knew this.

and as for a cult......... you must be in one ....

PICJAG

The fact remains, the Assemblies of God threw you out of their organization for your Antichrist views of God.

justbyfaith · Mar 13, 2019

I don't know about you, @Dave L. but I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and that He is come in the flesh. I confess these things as being genuine aspects of my faith.

So in what way am I antichrist, considering that the Greek word for and can be translated even in the following:

1Jo 2:22, Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father even the Son.

This says that denying Jesus is the antichrist spirit, and that to deny the Father even the Son is to deny that Jesus is the Christ; it is to deny Jesus and it is to have the antichrist spirit.

You should consider that this is the better way to translate this; because Isaiah 9:6 bears out that the son that is given will be called among other things the everlasting Father. Was Isaiah of the antichrist spirit in writing Isaiah 9:6? Or were the translators of the kjv of the antichrist spirit for translating Isaiah 9:6 the way they did?

I have to say that these are some hefty accusations.

The spirit that is behind them is satan the accuser of the brethren. The LORD rebuke you, satan.

Dave L · Mar 13, 2019

justbyfaith said:
I don't know about you, @Dave L. but I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and that He is come in the flesh. I confess these things as being genuine aspects of my faith.

So in what way am I antichrist, considering that the Greek word for and can be translated even in the following:

1Jo 2:22, Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father even the Son.

This says that denying Jesus is the antichrist spirit, and that to deny the Father even the Son is to deny that Jesus is the Christ; it is to deny Jesus and it is to have the antichrist spirit.

You should consider that this is the better way to translate this; because Isaiah 9:6 bears out that the son that is given will be called among other things the everlasting Father. Was Isaiah of the antichrist spirit in writing Isaiah 9:6? Or were the translators of the kjv of the antichrist spirit for translating Isaiah 9:6 the way they did?

I have to say that these are some hefty accusations.

The spirit that is behind them is satan the accuser of the brethren. The LORD rebuke you, satan.

You are off on several points we can discuss later. But the most important is, you are blind to the nature of God as being three distinct persons of one Spirit in scripture. Which involves you in having the spirit of Antichrist. Jesus must be Triune as defined in the creeds to have come in the flesh. You replace him with a false split personality version of Christ considered heresy in the early church councils. Which means you do not believe he came in the flesh.

Even the AOG kicked you (Oneness Pentecostalism) out as heretics as did the entire Church in history.

101G · Mar 13, 2019

Dave L said:
You are off on several points we can discuss later. But the most important is, you are blind to the nature of God as being three distinct persons of one Spirit in scripture. Which involves you in having the spirit of Antichrist. Jesus must be Triune as defined in the creeds to have come in the flesh. You replace him with a false split personality version of Christ considered heresy in the early church councils. Which means you do not believe he came in the flesh.

Even the AOG kicked you (Oneness Pentecostalism) out as heretics as did the entire Church in history.

if what you say is true, then you can clear up the matter by answering the John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 question.

that will settle the one Person question once and for all.

the ball is in your court ... your answer by scripture, dave

PICJAG

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