Is Gen 12:1, 7 End Times Prophecy?

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Jay Ross

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Should Genesis 12:1 which is correctly translated as: -

1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to an earth that I will show you.

and Genesis 12:7 which is correctly translated as: -

7 Then the LORD appeared to Abram, and said, "To your descendants I will give this earth."
be considered to be prophecies concerning the End Times?

What is the timeframe of reference for these two prophesies?

Shalom
 

Enoch111

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Should Genesis 12:1...
and Genesis 12:7... be considered to be prophecies concerning the End Times?
That would be a GROSS MISREPRESENTATION of what God told Abraham.

The Hebrew word erets (eretz) can be translated as land, country, or earth DEPENDING ON THE CONTEXT. The KJV correctly translated it as "country" and "land" but you incorrectly translated it as "earth".

God told Abraham to leave Mesopotamia (where Ur of the Chaldees was located, near modern Nasiriyah in Iraq) and go to Canaan, which would become the Promised Land for the nation of Israel.
 
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Should Genesis 12:1 which is correctly translated as: -

1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to an earth that I will show you.

and Genesis 12:7 which is correctly translated as: -

7 Then the LORD appeared to Abram, and said, "To your descendants I will give this earth."
be considered to be prophecies concerning the End Times?

What is the timeframe of reference for these two prophesies?

Shalom
We know who Abrahams descendants are today. They are all those people who believe in God and have faith in Jesus for their Salvation. Galatians 3:26-29, Romans 4:13-25...our faith is counted as righteousness.

So as Abrahams descendants, we are the inheritors of God's Promises of living in the holy Land. Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 3:6, Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 34:1-16, Isaiah 56:1-8, +
 

CoreIssue

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Should Genesis 12:1 which is correctly translated as: -

1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to an earth that I will show you.

and Genesis 12:7 which is correctly translated as: -

7 Then the LORD appeared to Abram, and said, "To your descendants I will give this earth."
be considered to be prophecies concerning the End Times?

What is the timeframe of reference for these two prophesies?

Shalom
The Call of Abram
1 The LORD had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you.

A present-day command.

7 The LORD appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring I will give this land.” So he built an altar there to the LORD, who had appeared to him.

A prophetic promise.
 

Jay Ross

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That would be a GROSS MISREPRESENTATION of what God told Abraham.

The Hebrew word erets (eretz) can be translated as land, country, or earth DEPENDING ON THE CONTEXT. The KJV correctly translated it as "country" and "land" but you incorrectly translated it as "earth".

God told Abraham to leave Mesopotamia (where Ur of the Chaldees was located, near modern Nasiriyah in Iraq) and go to Canaan, which would become the Promised Land for the nation of Israel.

So what you are saying is, that you do not see them as End time prophesies, but rather, you see then as have an imminent fulfilment in that God lead Abraham down to the Land of Canaan, within a time frame of around 25 years later after giving Abraham this prophecy, and that that was the fulfilment of the prophecy as far as Abraham is concerned.

But up and until Genesis 12:1, hā·’ā·reṣ has been translated as "earth," like in

Genesis 1:1: - In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth,​

but to be consistent with what you posted, Genesis 1:1 should read as: -

Genesis 1:1: - In the beginning, God created the heavens and the land,​

If the same interlinear word is used in Geneses 1:1 then its meaning in 1:1 should be the same as found in 12:1, but you claim that it is the context of 12:1 that dictates that it should be translated as "land" simply because Abraham ended up living in the Land of Canaan for nigh on 100 years before he died.

Now I agree with you that mê·’ar·ṣə·ḵā, as you correctly post, should be translated as "county." This Hebrew word is only found twice in the OT and its second occurrence is found in Deuteronomy 26:2 where the English translation reads: -

Deuteronomy 26:2: - 2 you shall take some of the first of all the fruit of the ground, which you harvest from your country/land that the Lord your God gives you, and you shall put it in a basket, and you shall go to the place which the Lord your God will choose, to make his name to dwell there.​

Because of all of the errors in understanding of the scribes responsible for writing/recopying the OT scrolls, and the obsession of the Israelites to receive "a promised land/country" we have the misconceptions that you are presenting above.

The justification given is the "CONTEXT" of what God was saying, but the translations unfortunately present the context that man has given and not the context of what God was saying to Abraham.

Shalom
 

Jay Ross

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We know who Abrahams descendants are today. They are all those people who believe in God and have faith in Jesus for their Salvation. Galatians 3:26-29, Romans 4:13-25...our faith is counted as righteousness.

So as Abrahams descendants, we are the inheritors of God's Promises of living in the holy Land. Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 3:6, Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 34:1-16, Isaiah 56:1-8, +

You have the mistaken understanding that the promise of the Holy Land is still current. That it is a perpetual promise of God. I sadly must inform you that the promise of the Israelites receiving the land as promised in Gen 15:17ff has been fulfilled and the duration of the for this promise pasted many centauries ago before Christ was born of Mary.

Ezekiel 34:13 tells us that God will gather all of the Israelites to himself and plant them in good soil so that they can take root in the teaching of God represented by the mountains of Israel, and that this teaching will take place by all of the rivers and inhabited places of the earth. This is the same Hebrew word for earth as found in Genesis 1:1.

Your posts are based on a foundation of sand.

Shalom
 
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Enoch111

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So what you are saying is, that you do not see them as End time prophesies...
Correct. That is the significance of Genesis 12. However, when we get to Genesis 15 and following, we see the Abrahamic Covenant, and the future fulfillment of redeemed and restored Israel in THE LAND between the Nile and the Euphrates, as shown in the prophecy of Ezekiel.
 

Jay Ross

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Good grief! The rabid obsession to hope to find some sort of "End Times" prophecy in every word you read seems to have eaten some of you alive.

Yes and the rabid obsession of some people to deny that the promises of God to Abraham is also linked to the end times will eat them alive as they deny or modify the promises of God to Abraham's seed after the end times.

But since you have chimed in with your observation, it seems that you too agree with the mighty Enoch111's prophetic underpinning of scripture to the fable of the context in which it is found.

Or would you rather enlighten us with your views to put people in context of your beliefs in this regards and simple state what it is that you believe W.R.T. the OP..

Shalom
 

CoreIssue

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So what you are saying is, that you do not see them as End time prophesies, but rather, you see then as have an imminent fulfilment in that God lead Abraham down to the Land of Canaan, within a time frame of around 25 years later after giving Abraham this prophecy, and that that was the fulfilment of the prophecy as far as Abraham is concerned.

But up and until Genesis 12:1, hā·’ā·reṣ has been translated as "earth," like in

Genesis 1:1: - In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth,​

but to be consistent with what you posted, Genesis 1:1 should read as: -

Genesis 1:1: - In the beginning, God created the heavens and the land,​

If the same interlinear word is used in Geneses 1:1 then its meaning in 1:1 should be the same as found in 12:1, but you claim that it is the context of 12:1 that dictates that it should be translated as "land" simply because Abraham ended up living in the Land of Canaan for nigh on 100 years before he died.

Now I agree with you that mê·’ar·ṣə·ḵā, as you correctly post, should be translated as "county." This Hebrew word is only found twice in the OT and its second occurrence is found in Deuteronomy 26:2 where the English translation reads: -

Deuteronomy 26:2: - 2 you shall take some of the first of all the fruit of the ground, which you harvest from your country/land that the Lord your God gives you, and you shall put it in a basket, and you shall go to the place which the Lord your God will choose, to make his name to dwell there.​

Because of all of the errors in understanding of the scribes responsible for writing/recopying the OT scrolls, and the obsession of the Israelites to receive "a promised land/country" we have the misconceptions that you are presenting above.

The justification given is the "CONTEXT" of what God was saying, but the translations unfortunately present the context that man has given and not the context of what God was saying to Abraham.

Shalom

Yes it means land. But remember in verse 1 there was only land. There were no oceans.

In the war in heaven he shattered the earth and released the subterranean water. All the land disappear below the water.

It destroyed the Pre-Adamic life, including the Pre-Adamic Company (not race) Beings,
Except for those who did not rebel with Satan, of which the four living creatures around the throne are a member. By definition they are flesh.

The ones that rebelled became demons.

Then he raised land out of the water during the six days of creation. But only land to form one single continent.

The Flood again covered it by water. He released the water from the ground and the water from the sky.

The earth is still scarred from these two water events.

Then in the days of a Peleg he divided the line and the people living on it.

It is amazing the distortions and contortions atheists have invented to get around all of this.

The New Earth will once again have no ocean.un me moon.

So I agree it is important to get word meaning right.
 

Jay Ross

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Yes it means land. But remember in verse 1 there was only land. There were no oceans.

In the war in heaven he shattered the earth and released the subterranean water. All the land disappear below the water.

It destroyed the Pre-Adamic life, including the Pre-Adamic Company (not race) Beings,
Except for those who did not rebel with Satan, of which the four living creatures around the throne are a member. By definition they are flesh.

The ones that rebelled became demons.

Then he raised land out of the water during the six days of creation. But only land to form one single continent.

The Flood again covered it by water. He released the water from the ground and the water from the sky.

The earth is still scarred from these two water events.

Then in the days of a Peleg he divided the line and the people living on it.

It is amazing the distortions and contortions atheists have invented to get around all of this.

The New Earth will once again have no ocean.un me moon.

So I agree it is important to get word meaning right.

Please provide the Biblical references for what you are claiming. Genesis 1:1-13 provides none of the information that you are stating.
 

Keraz

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You have the mistaken understanding that the promise of the Holy Land is still current. That it is a perpetual promise of God. I sadly must inform you that the promise of the Israelites receiving the land as promised in Gen 15:17ff has been fulfilled and the duration of the for this promise pasted many centauries ago before Christ was born of Mary.

The question of who will inhabit the holy Land in the period before the Return of Jesus, is made clear by the following Bible passages;

Daniel 7:25 He [the Anti-Christ] will wear down the holy ones of God. He will change the feasts and the religious laws. The Lord’s holy people will be delivered into his power for 3½ years. [Those people, who stay in Beulah: Isaiah 62:1-5, will experience the Tribulation. Daniel 11:32, Revelation 12:17]

Daniel 11:21-22....a despicable man, not recognised as a king, will come unexpectedly and seize the kingdom by intrigue. He will sweep all opposition before him and will kill a leader of the covenant people. [The leader of the One World Govt will conquer Beulah, inhabited by every faithful Christian, and will kill one of their leaders.]

Daniel 11:29-35 At the appointed time, he will again invade the South, but ships of Kittim will oppose him. As he retreats, he will vent his fury against the covenant people. He will reward those who forsake their covenant with God. Troops in his command will stop the regular offering and set up ‘the abomination that causes desolation’. With flattery, he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who are faithful to their God, will be resolute and take action.

Wise leaders of the nation will guide the people, though for a time, they will be taken captive and killed. Some help will come, albeit; not entirely sincere. Those leaders may become victims, so that they may be refined and purified, ready for the end of the age. Daniel 12:3 The wise leaders, who have guided the people in the true path, will shine like stars, forever.
The Anti Christ invades some unidentified nations in Southern regions, but ships of Kittim [Cyprus – in the Mediterranean, but this is a metaphor for the Western nations] will stop him. He will then occupy the Holy Land, taking control and causing many of God’s people to obey him. Those who hold firm to their Covenant with God will be persecuted and some killed. This is in order to refine and purify them, ready for the Return of Jesus.


Zechariah 14:1-2 A Day is coming for the Lord to act and the plunder taken from you will be shared out while you stand by. I shall gather all the nations to make war on Jerusalem, the city will be taken, the houses ransacked and the women raped. Half of the people will go into exile, but the rest will remain there. Daniel 9:27 &11:31-32
Verses 1 & 2 must refer to the midpoint of the 70th week. [7 year period] That commences the Great Tribulation, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. Then: from verse 3, the description is of the Return of Jesus.

Revelation 13:5-10 The Beast, [Anti-Christ] was given permission to continue for 42 months. [3½ years] He blasphemed against God and waged war on God’s people and defeated them, he was given authority over the whole earth. You have ears, so hear!
Those who are destined for prison, will be imprisoned, those to be killed will be killed. This calls for the endurance and faithfulness of God’s people.

Revelation 12:13-14 The dragon [Satan: the Beast] is thrown down to earth. He pursues the Woman, [Israelites, Overcomers; the followers of Jesus] who gave birth to the male child. [Jesus] But she is given the wings of the mighty eagle, so that she could fly to a place in the wilderness, where she is looked after for 3½ years. Ref. REB, NIV. Verses abridged.

In Zechariah 14:2 it says that half of the population will go into exile, this obviously is the Woman: faithful Christian Israelites, referred to in Revelation 12:6-17, where they will be kept safe until the Return.
Then, in Matthew 24:31 – they will be gathered back into the Land, along with those Gentiles who have refused the mark of the Beast, to live with Christ for 1000 years.

The other half of the population who remain in the Land, will suffer under the yoke of the Anti-Christ. They are the Lord’s Christian people, who have to face testing and refinement. Daniel 11:32-33, Revelation 14:12, 2 Esdras 13:47-50, Revelation 7:14....they have passed through the great ordeal.... It is these people who will say to Jesus: “Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord”.


So, who are those living in the Land of Israel before and during the Tribulation?

They are the Lord’s people, all the true believers plus the Christian descendants of Jacob, gathered, in order to fulfil God’s promises to the Patriarchs, to be His witnesses and to be His Light to the nations. His holy people are seen in the Land in the last days; Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7.
It is quite evident, from Bible study, that the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal, will cause a dramatic clearance of peoples from all the Middle East area. Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Amos 1 & Amos 2:1-5

In Ezekiel 20:34-38, we see the gathering of all the 12 tribes of Israel. The Lord will judge them and those who revolt and rebel will not enter the holy Land.
Then all His righteous people to emigrate there, as described in Isaiah 66:18b-21, Psalms 107, all faithful Christians, from every nation and language, to live there in peace and prosperity. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, and Romans 9:24-26 says how the Christians become Sons of the Living God, in the very place that the ancient Israelites were rejected.

They will rebuild the Temple and reinstitute the Law and the ordinances. Zechariah 6:15, Ezekiel 43:1-12, Isaiah 56:1-8

All the rest of the world will be under a One World Government, initially ruled by 10 leaders, but soon to be taken over by another strong leader. He will rule until the Return of Jesus, when he will be chained up for the 1000 years.
 

Jay Ross

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No biblical references, only your special commentaries.

Please note that the land does not appear until Gen 1:9. Therefore the reference to the earth in Gen 1:1 is to the whole earth, just as Gen 12:1 is also a reference to the whole earth in keeping with Dan 7:27 where everything under the heavens is given to the saints and that can only be the whole earth.
 

Jay Ross

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The question of who will inhabit the holy Land in the period before the Return of Jesus, is made clear by the following Bible passages;

Daniel 7:25 He [the Anti-Christ] will wear down the holy ones of God. He will change the feasts and the religious laws. The Lord’s holy people will be delivered into his power for 3½ years. [Those people, who stay in Beulah: Isaiah 62:1-5, will experience the Tribulation. Daniel 11:32, Revelation 12:17]

Daniel 11:21-22....a despicable man, not recognised as a king, will come unexpectedly and seize the kingdom by intrigue. He will sweep all opposition before him and will kill a leader of the covenant people. [The leader of the One World Govt will conquer Beulah, inhabited by every faithful Christian, and will kill one of their leaders.]

Daniel 11:29-35 At the appointed time, he will again invade the South, but ships of Kittim will oppose him. As he retreats, he will vent his fury against the covenant people. He will reward those who forsake their covenant with God. Troops in his command will stop the regular offering and set up ‘the abomination that causes desolation’. With flattery, he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who are faithful to their God, will be resolute and take action.

Wise leaders of the nation will guide the people, though for a time, they will be taken captive and killed. Some help will come, albeit; not entirely sincere. Those leaders may become victims, so that they may be refined and purified, ready for the end of the age. Daniel 12:3 The wise leaders, who have guided the people in the true path, will shine like stars, forever.
The Anti Christ invades some unidentified nations in Southern regions, but ships of Kittim [Cyprus – in the Mediterranean, but this is a metaphor for the Western nations] will stop him. He will then occupy the Holy Land, taking control and causing many of God’s people to obey him. Those who hold firm to their Covenant with God will be persecuted and some killed. This is in order to refine and purify them, ready for the Return of Jesus.


Zechariah 14:1-2 A Day is coming for the Lord to act and the plunder taken from you will be shared out while you stand by. I shall gather all the nations to make war on Jerusalem, the city will be taken, the houses ransacked and the women raped. Half of the people will go into exile, but the rest will remain there. Daniel 9:27 &11:31-32
Verses 1 & 2 must refer to the midpoint of the 70th week. [7 year period] That commences the Great Tribulation, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. Then: from verse 3, the description is of the Return of Jesus.

Revelation 13:5-10 The Beast, [Anti-Christ] was given permission to continue for 42 months. [3½ years] He blasphemed against God and waged war on God’s people and defeated them, he was given authority over the whole earth. You have ears, so hear!
Those who are destined for prison, will be imprisoned, those to be killed will be killed. This calls for the endurance and faithfulness of God’s people.


Revelation 12:13-14 The dragon [Satan: the Beast] is thrown down to earth. He pursues the Woman, [Israelites, Overcomers; the followers of Jesus] who gave birth to the male child. [Jesus] But she is given the wings of the mighty eagle, so that she could fly to a place in the wilderness, where she is looked after for 3½ years. Ref. REB, NIV. Verses abridged.

In Zechariah 14:2 it says that half of the population will go into exile, this obviously is the Woman: faithful Christian Israelites, referred to in Revelation 12:6-17, where they will be kept safe until the Return.
Then, in Matthew 24:31 – they will be gathered back into the Land, along with those Gentiles who have refused the mark of the Beast, to live with Christ for 1000 years.

The other half of the population who remain in the Land, will suffer under the yoke of the Anti-Christ. They are the Lord’s Christian people, who have to face testing and refinement. Daniel 11:32-33, Revelation 14:12, 2 Esdras 13:47-50, Revelation 7:14....they have passed through the great ordeal.... It is these people who will say to Jesus: “Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord”.


So, who are those living in the Land of Israel before and during the Tribulation?

They are the Lord’s people, all the true believers plus the Christian descendants of Jacob, gathered, in order to fulfil God’s promises to the Patriarchs, to be His witnesses and to be His Light to the nations. His holy people are seen in the Land in the last days; Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7.
It is quite evident, from Bible study, that the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal, will cause a dramatic clearance of peoples from all the Middle East area. Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Amos 1 & Amos 2:1-5

In Ezekiel 20:34-38, we see the gathering of all the 12 tribes of Israel. The Lord will judge them and those who revolt and rebel will not enter the holy Land.
Then all His righteous people to emigrate there, as described in Isaiah 66:18b-21, Psalms 107, all faithful Christians, from every nation and language, to live there in peace and prosperity. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, and Romans 9:24-26 says how the Christians become Sons of the Living God, in the very place that the ancient Israelites were rejected.

They will rebuild the Temple and reinstitute the Law and the ordinances. Zechariah 6:15, Ezekiel 43:1-12, Isaiah 56:1-8

All the rest of the world will be under a One World Government, initially ruled by 10 leaders, but soon to be taken over by another strong leader. He will rule until the Return of Jesus, when he will be chained up for the 1000 years.

I am not interested in your theory as your timeline IMHO is out of wack with the scriptures.

If you must respond to the OP then please answer the question(s) posed not introduce a new topic if you do not mind..
 

ScottA

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So what you are saying is, that you do not see them as End time prophesies, but rather, you see then as have an imminent fulfilment in that God lead Abraham down to the Land of Canaan, within a time frame of around 25 years later after giving Abraham this prophecy, and that that was the fulfilment of the prophecy as far as Abraham is concerned.

But up and until Genesis 12:1, hā·’ā·reṣ has been translated as "earth," like in

Genesis 1:1: - In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth,​

but to be consistent with what you posted, Genesis 1:1 should read as: -

Genesis 1:1: - In the beginning, God created the heavens and the land,​

If the same interlinear word is used in Geneses 1:1 then its meaning in 1:1 should be the same as found in 12:1, but you claim that it is the context of 12:1 that dictates that it should be translated as "land" simply because Abraham ended up living in the Land of Canaan for nigh on 100 years before he died.

Now I agree with you that mê·’ar·ṣə·ḵā, as you correctly post, should be translated as "county." This Hebrew word is only found twice in the OT and its second occurrence is found in Deuteronomy 26:2 where the English translation reads: -

Deuteronomy 26:2: - 2 you shall take some of the first of all the fruit of the ground, which you harvest from your country/land that the Lord your God gives you, and you shall put it in a basket, and you shall go to the place which the Lord your God will choose, to make his name to dwell there.​

Because of all of the errors in understanding of the scribes responsible for writing/recopying the OT scrolls, and the obsession of the Israelites to receive "a promised land/country" we have the misconceptions that you are presenting above.

The justification given is the "CONTEXT" of what God was saying, but the translations unfortunately present the context that man has given and not the context of what God was saying to Abraham.

Shalom
This study would have merit according to the worldly law of reason, but not according to the laws of God. Actually, the problem is the expectation that the use of language is absolute. It's not. In fact, ALL language (including the scriptures) was confounded to every corner of the world by God, by an order that has not been rescinded. We simply can't decipher the truth from God by the written word alone.
 
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CoreIssue

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No biblical references, only your special commentaries.

Please note that the land does not appear until Gen 1:9. Therefore the reference to the earth in Gen 1:1 is to the whole earth, just as Gen 12:1 is also a reference to the whole earth in keeping with Dan 7:27 where everything under the heavens is given to the saints and that can only be the whole earth.

Pre-Adamic Creation
Pre-Adamic Destruction

Those links include verses and word meaning. Plus points out translation errors in the KJV.

And don't say KJV has no errors. Easter is a big one that is easy to cite to you.
 

Jay Ross

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Again I ask the question, what is the correct time context in which to understand this covenantal promise in Gen 12:1?