There is more than one set of apocryphas.

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Ezra

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And simple rejection is not a valid argument . . .
ok its false teaching when you dies if your saved you go to heaven..if not saved you go to hell no in between.. we are made clean justified by the BLOOD OF JESUS not some dreamed up fantasy island purgatory that IS NOT BIBLE rearguards of how hard you twist scripture
 

tzcho2

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Why would you say that? Anyone can read the Catechism of the Catholic Church online and determine their doctrines. And you don't need a Ph. D. to understand fiction. For example, let's take fictitious Purgatory.
No kidding, some act like they think we are still living in the dark ages & that nobody has access to ALL of the Rcc Catechism & the heretical doctrines promoted over the centuries by their Popes. Like they belong to a secret society. Always the religious arrogance and spiritual blindness is evident from the followers of the religious traditions of these priesthood cults, because these priesthoods are usurpers of God's authority and they've deceived themselves & brainwash their members into believing their traditions are superior & lead to heaven.
 
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BreadOfLife

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ok its false teaching when you dies if your saved you go to heaven..if not saved you go to hell no in between.. we are made clean justified by the BLOOD OF JESUS not some dreamed up fantasy island purgatory that IS NOT BIBLE rearguards of how hard you twist scripture
Funny - that's NOT what your Protestant Father taught.
They taught that we are "covered" by the righteousness of Christ and enter Heaven under HIS covering. they DIDN'T teach that we are actually MADE righteous. Luther referred to Christians entering Heaven as "snow-covered dunghills" - as if God can be fooled.
Ummmmmm, when did this teaching change?

Rev.21:27
states explicitly that NOTHING unclean or impure can enter Heaven - not even Luther's "snow-covered dunghills" . . .
 

tzcho2

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How healthy are churches in your area.
I think the churches that don't preach the truth ironically are losing members faster because there is nothing deep or real about them. The simple bible believing ones for now, still are holding the faithful but in smaller numbers because the next generation isn't filling it up as it should be. Churches all over seem to not be getting in the young people & couples. So many heretical books in the christian bookstores, and heretical teachers of both women & men. New age has gone mainstream & is entering into the majority of churches in some form with only the fundamentalists holding fast to the word. Hard to shatter all those layers of spiritual deception bombarding the youth. The believers that follow Jesus & the word of God are the ones the world & the apostate within christendom is turning on- just as Jesus warned us.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Why would you say that? Anyone can read the Catechism of the Catholic Church online and determine their doctrines. And you don't need a Ph. D. to understand fiction. For example, let's take fictitious Purgatory.

III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:
[NOTE: But never in the sense of Purgatory]...

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture:
[NOTE: Maccabees was never regarded as sacred Scripture by the Jews]

"Therefore Judas [Maccabeus] atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."

[NOTE: Which was a false religious practice by unsaved Jews]

From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead... [NOTE: So Purgatory, alms giving, and indulgences were really CASH COWS for the Catholic Church].
No kidding, some act like they think we are still living in the dark ages & that nobody has access to ALL of the Rcc Catechism & the heretical doctrines promoted over the centuries by their Popes. Like they belong to a secret society. Always the religious arrogance and spiritual blindness is evident from the followers of the religious traditions of these priesthood cults, because these priesthoods are usurpers of God's authority and they've deceived themselves & brainwash their members into believing their traditions are superior & lead to heaven.
Spoken like another couple of typical Protestants who are TRULY ignorant of history.
Time for a Bible lesson . . .

- The Septuagint (Greek OT) was translated by 70 JEWISH (NOT Catholic) Scholars - about 200 years before the birth of Christ.
- There were 7 Books that were part of the OPEN Jewish Canon (Baruch, Sirach, Wisdom, Tobit, Judith, 1 & 2 Maccabees) along with portions of Daniel and Esther.
- This is the Canon of Scripture that Jesus and the NT writers studied from - and they are referred to some 200 TIMES in the New Testament.

Now, pay attention because here's where it gets ugly . . .

AFTER Jesus died, rose and ascended to Heaven - the Apostles started their mission. Around the years 70 AD, Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans and the Temple was destroyed. SOME rabbis began to have second thoughts about the Deuterocanonical Books because of their "Hellenistic" influence in the Diaspora (Dispersed Jews). Around the year 135, during the 2nd Jewish Revolt - a rabbi named Akiva declared TWO things:

a.
A man named Simon Bar Kokhba was the "real" messiah. He turned out to be a false messiah and Akiva was a false prophet.
b. The Deuterocanonical Books needed to be REMOVED from the OPEN Canon - and the canon closed.

SO - you Protestants adhere to a POST-Christ, POST-Temple OT Canon that was determined by a FALSE Prophet. If you follow HIS canon - why don't you also follow HIS messiah??

Here's the worst part: the ONLY reason your Protestant Fathers chose to do this was to further-divorce themselves from the Catholic Church.

NICE
job . . .
 

tzcho2

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Funny - that's NOT what your Protestant Father taught.
They taught that we are "covered" by the righteousness of Christ and enter Heaven under HIS covering. they DIDN'T teach that we are actually MADE righteous. Luther referred to Christians entering Heaven as "snow-covered dunghills" - as if God can be fooled.
Ummmmmm, when did this teaching change?

Rev.21:27
states explicitly that NOTHING unclean or impure can enter Heaven - not even Luther's "snow-covered dunghills" . . .
Don't let his metaphor be lost to you, Luther would assume that believers who know the Bible to be the word of God know his metaphor doesn't negate what the word of God teaches about the process of sanctification. There is positional sanctification and progressive sanctification.
What is entire sanctification?
What is positional sanctification?


What is Positional Sanctification?


Question: "What is positional sanctification?"

Answer:
To sanctify means to set apart as holy, which is what happens to sinners who are saved from sin by the grace of God through the gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). The three “phases” of salvation are positional sanctification, progressive sanctification, and final sanctification. At the moment of salvation, we are sanctified or set apart positionally; that is, we are saved from the ultimate penalty of sin. Then begins progressive sanctification, the process whereby we are saved from the practice and power of sin. And after this physical life is over, we will be sanctified finally; that is, we will be saved from the presence of sin.

Positional sanctification is a one-time act of the Holy Spirit on the hearts of unbelievers whom He has chosen for salvation from sin. At the moment of salvation, believers understand and acknowledge their sinful state, their inability to save themselves through any works of their own, their need of a savior, their acceptance of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross as sin’s payment, and their faith in Jesus’ resurrection. At that moment, believers are brought out of darkness into the light. We have been “justified through faith” (Romans 5:1), and our position before God has been changed forever. No longer dead in trespasses, we are made alive together with Christ (Ephesians 2:5). Our position changes in that we are made citizens of a whole new kingdom: “He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves” (Colossians 1:13).

Positional sanctification also changes our position as sinners deserving of God’s wrath to the position of beloved children of the Father and perfect in His eyes. Our new position means we are part of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27); God’s special possession (1 Peter 2:9); new creations (2 Corinthians 5:17); dead to sin (Romans 6:2); and possessors of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4). Because salvation is an act of the Spirit, the believer’s new position cannot change, be lost, or be given back. We cannot “un-save” ourselves, nor can we alter our position before God through any of our works or the lack thereof. We are kept in the position of beloved for the rest of our lives and throughout eternity. Positional sanctification is the work of God whereby He declares us already set apart and holy in His eyes: “God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 2:6). Positional sanctification is not dependent on our feelings or whims; it is a fact of salvation, even though our actions on earth do not always align with our position in heaven.

Positional sanctification inevitably leads to progressive sanctification, with good works as the inevitable result. Those who are born again will naturally begin to act according to their new nature in Christ, and the result will be increasing holiness in personal living (1 Peter 1:15–16). The positionally sanctified will be progressively sanctified by the same Holy Spirit who justified us in the first place. The works that God has foreordained for us will be accomplished through His power (Ephesians 2:10).

Once we have been positionally sanctified, the process of progressive sanctification begins. Progressive sanctification is the lifelong process of becoming more Christlike as we cooperate with the Holy Spirit and yield to His control (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:18). Once we are positionally sanctified, the Holy Spirit uses the Word of God to progressively sanctify us (John 17:17) so that in the end our practical holiness aligns with our positional holiness when we see Christ face to face in glory (1 John 3:2).

Recommended Resource: Pleasing God: Discovering the Meaning and Importance of Sanctification by R.C. Sproul
 

tzcho2

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Spoken like another couple of typical Protestants who are TRULY ignorant of history.
Time for a Bible lesson . . .
- The Septuagint (Greek OT) was translated by 70 JEWISH (NOT Catholic) Scholars - about 200 years before the birth of Christ.
- There were 7 Books that were part of the OPEN Jewish Canon (Baruch, Sirach, Wisdom, Tobit, Judith, 1 & 2 Maccabees) along with portions of Daniel and Esther.
- This is the Canon of Scripture that Jesus and the NT writers studied from - and they are referred to some 200 TIMES in the New Testament.
Now,
pay attention because here's where it gets ugly . . .
AFTER
Jesus died, rose and ascended to Heaven - the Apostles started their mission. Around the years 70 AD, Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans and the Temple was destroyed. SOME rabbis began to have second thoughts about the Deuterocanonical Books because of their "Hellenistic" influence in the Diaspora (Dispersed Jews). Around the year 135, during the 2nd Jewish Revolt - a rabbi named Akiva declared TWO things:
a. A man named Simon Bar Kokhba was the "real" messiah. He turned out to be a false messiah and Akiva was a false prophet.
b. The Deuterocanonical Books needed to be REMOVED from the OPEN Canon - and the canon closed.

SO - you Protestants adhere to a POST-Christ, POST-Temple OT Canon that was determined by a FALSE Prophet. If you follow HIS canon - why don't you also follow HIS messiah??
Here's the
worst part: the ONLY reason your Protestant Fathers chose to do this was to further-divorce themselves from the Catholic Church.
NICE job . . .
Your sublime ignorance, arrogance & self-delusion just astounds- taught that by your false priesthood. What you think of Protestants is a delusional joke, and the fact that you think there is a need or that you are in any position to teach religious history is really laughable, your blind hatred for the reformation comes right from Rome.
Or is this just a diversion since we were referring to the false teachings that are available for all to read on line in the Rc Catechism such as the false doctrine of purgatory, marion mythology & dogmas, praying to images of rc Mary , rc saints , faith plus works gospel, transubstantiation etc...
 
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BreadOfLife

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Don't let his metaphor be lost to you, Luther would assume that believers who know the Bible to be the word of God know his metaphor doesn't negate what the word of God teaches about the process of sanctification. There is positional sanctification and progressive sanctification.
What is entire sanctification?
What is positional sanctification?


What is Positional Sanctification?


Question: "What is positional sanctification?"

Answer: To sanctify means to set apart as holy, which is what happens to sinners who are saved from sin by the grace of God through the gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). The three “phases” of salvation are positional sanctification, progressive sanctification, and final sanctification. At the moment of salvation, we are sanctified or set apart positionally; that is, we are saved from the ultimate penalty of sin. Then begins progressive sanctification, the process whereby we are saved from the practice and power of sin. And after this physical life is over, we will be sanctified finally; that is, we will be saved from the presence of sin.

Positional sanctification is a one-time act of the Holy Spirit on the hearts of unbelievers whom He has chosen for salvation from sin. At the moment of salvation, believers understand and acknowledge their sinful state, their inability to save themselves through any works of their own, their need of a savior, their acceptance of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross as sin’s payment, and their faith in Jesus’ resurrection. At that moment, believers are brought out of darkness into the light. We have been “justified through faith” (Romans 5:1), and our position before God has been changed forever. No longer dead in trespasses, we are made alive together with Christ (Ephesians 2:5). Our position changes in that we are made citizens of a whole new kingdom: “He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves” (Colossians 1:13).

Positional sanctification also changes our position as sinners deserving of God’s wrath to the position of beloved children of the Father and perfect in His eyes. Our new position means we are part of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27); God’s special possession (1 Peter 2:9); new creations (2 Corinthians 5:17); dead to sin (Romans 6:2); and possessors of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4). Because salvation is an act of the Spirit, the believer’s new position cannot change, be lost, or be given back. We cannot “un-save” ourselves, nor can we alter our position before God through any of our works or the lack thereof. We are kept in the position of beloved for the rest of our lives and throughout eternity. Positional sanctification is the work of God whereby He declares us already set apart and holy in His eyes: “God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 2:6). Positional sanctification is not dependent on our feelings or whims; it is a fact of salvation, even though our actions on earth do not always align with our position in heaven.

Positional sanctification inevitably leads to progressive sanctification, with good works as the inevitable result. Those who are born again will naturally begin to act according to their new nature in Christ, and the result will be increasing holiness in personal living (1 Peter 1:15–16). The positionally sanctified will be progressively sanctified by the same Holy Spirit who justified us in the first place. The works that God has foreordained for us will be accomplished through His power (Ephesians 2:10).

Once we have been positionally sanctified, the process of progressive sanctification begins. Progressive sanctification is the lifelong process of becoming more Christlike as we cooperate with the Holy Spirit and yield to His control (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:18). Once we are positionally sanctified, the Holy Spirit uses the Word of God to progressively sanctify us (John 17:17) so that in the end our practical holiness aligns with our positional holiness when we see Christ face to face in glory (1 John 3:2).

Recommended Resource: Pleasing God: Discovering the Meaning and Importance of Sanctification by R.C. Sproul
The ENTIRE portion above in RED sounds awfully CATHOLIC.

Unfortunately, because of the perpetual splintering that is Protestantism - MOST Protestants don't believe this. They believe that salvation is a one-time, slam dunk event - and NOT a process.

there's hope for you yet . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Your sublime ignorance, arrogance & self-delusion just astounds- taught that by your false priesthood. What you think of Protestants is a delusional joke, and the fact that you think there is a need or that you are in any position to teach religious history is really laughable, your blind hatred for the reformation comes right from Rome.
Then, why don't YOU tell me YOUR version of Jewish history?
Tell me when the Deuterocanonical Books were jettisoned from the OPEN Jewish Canon of the 1st century.

Can you do that?

And please - DON'T respond with empty ad hominems. Just give me the "facts" of history.
 

tzcho2

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Then, why don't YOU tell me YOUR version of Jewish history?
Tell me when the Deuterocanonical Books were jettisoned from the OPEN Jewish Canon of the 1st century.

Can you do that?

And please - DON'T respond with empty ad hominems. Just give me the "facts" of history.
Why are you trying to deflect? Btw, you are the king of ad hominems & bearing false witness against Jesus following Bible -believing Christians, so give us all a break.
Stop trying to change the subject, we were discussing the fact that all the RC false teachings are available for anyone to research &on line in the Rc Catechism --such as the false doctrine of purgatory, marion mythology & Mary dogmas, praying to images of rc Mary , rc saints , faith plus works gospel, transubstantiation, etc....
 

tzcho2

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The ENTIRE portion above in RED sounds awfully CATHOLIC..
That is so Roman Catholic of you to exclaim that. It's the BIBLE, Mister!!
But typically the Roman Catholics attribute all the Biblical Christian doctrines to ROMAN CATHOLICISM --such is their great religious self-deception, and it shows the massive arrogance that is always evident in the roman catholics who've been taught to bow the knee to the cult of Rome. They just don't submit to the authority of Jesus, or the authority of His Word, they think their Roman Catholic Church is equal or above GOD & is their divine source for doctrine. Spiritual blindness & pride.
 

BreadOfLife

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Why are you trying to deflect? Btw, you are the king of ad hominems & bearing false witness against Jesus following Bible -believing Christians, so give us all a break.
Stop trying to change the subject, we were discussing the fact that all the RC false teachings are available for anyone to research &on line in the Rc Catechism --such as the false doctrine of purgatory, marion mythology & Mary dogmas, praying to images of rc Mary , rc saints , faith plus works gospel, transubstantiation, etc....
WRONG.

In every post, I bring to the table, Scripture history and linguistic evidence to make my case.
All YOU bring are your opinions and anti-Catholic accusations - and nothing else. Whenever I ask you for any kind of actual proof - you tell me to research it myself online. That's a cowardly and idiotic response

Bring some of the SAME types of evidence that I do.
Make an actual case - don't just rely on emotion and moronic, unsubstantiated claims . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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That is so Roman Catholic of you to exclaim that. It's the BIBLE, Mister!!
Really??

Then why do MOST Protestants NOT believe this??
Why do they believe that salvation is a one-time, slam dunk event - and NOT a process??
But typically the Roman Catholics attribute all the Biblical Christian doctrines to ROMAN CATHOLICISM --such is their great religious self-deception, and it shows the massive arrogance that is always evident in the roman catholics who've been taught to bow the knee to the cult of Rome. They just don't submit to the authority of Jesus, or the authority of His Word, they think their Roman Catholic Church is equal or above GOD & is their divine source for doctrine. Spiritual blindness & pride.
And there you go again, using the same moronic titles.
Let's address this.

Can you tell me where you got the title of "Roman Catholic Church" - even AFTER I educated you about the fact that there is no such Church?

While you're at it - can you show me where the Church teaches that it is "above" God?
You keep making these idiotic accusations without ANY proof whatsoever - so I'm NOT letting go of this one . . .
 
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tzcho2

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And there you go again, using the same moronic titles.
Let's address this.
Can you tell me where you got the title of "Roman Catholic Church" - even AFTER I educated you about the fact that there is no such Church?
While you're at it - can you show me where the Church teaches that it is "above" God?
You keep making these idiotic accusations without ANY proof whatsoever - so I'm NOT letting go of this one . . .
BOL using your red bolding gigantic font, with your aggressive rude tone , shows an attitude that is very condescending, very prideful and very disrespectful , bearing false witness as you do in every post, using adjectives like "moronic", "idiotic" etc.. & saying you are "schooling" or giving a "spanking" , if you would speak to anyone Like you have done in this thread, to anyone but a true Christian-- you would no doubt get a fist in the face, no doubt. I cannot see any other regular men putting up with it. I don't hold it against you though , only witness to your blindness. It is sadly evident by your posts the fruit you have.
But it's the institution of the RCC and the priesthood which includes the false seat of the Palpacy that I take issue with, I don't hold your sinful fallen character against you BOL because you cannot know better, and only know what you've been told & programmed to believe, when people are lost & deceived , lead astray by the false teachings of the RCC, their words & behavior reflect it.

To clarify : The sanctification is not salvation, we are only saved once by grace, through FAITH alone in Jesus finished work on the cross period, as written in scripture. We don't save ourselves & we don't work to keep our salvation, we cannot make ourselves clean, we can by our ownselves do nothing to save ourselves. As it says in Isaiah, and in Romans "All our righteousness is as filthy rags..., "there is none good ,no not one." That means absolutely none, but Jesus , the Lord, the Son of God.
When we are truly saved, born again from above with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, through Yeshuah , it is the Holy Spirit in us that produces good works as a by product of our salvation. This is also the good fruit.

One of the root sources of the false hoods perpetuated by the RCC is to identify itself as "THE" church mentioned in the Bible. IT is not "THE" church as mentioned in the Holy Scriptures. And therefore " the Roman Catholic Church" is not "infallible " as the catechism claims & this is the First False Premise which the RCC lays it's authority, labeling itself alone as "CHRIST's Church" and Falsely claiming the Pope (the vicar of Christ) can interpret all scripture because it's a divine God appointed lineage from Apostle Peter - which AGAIN , this is the Second False Premise the RCC authority is based upon. It is all the sly spiritual deception that has enthralled & taken hold of the RCC from top to bottom, by placing itself equal with GOD & as the Pope is declared the interpreter of Holy Scripture-- and since the Pope can interpret scripture he has been placed above God's WORD.

When reading the Catechism ,it can be witnessed how the RCC /in it's self-declared divine authority uses it's own license in it's declarations of the theology, dogma & spiritual doctrines it outlines. Great differences in the Catechism what is written in it, how it interprets Biblical doctrines , & how the catechism is written in oozy spiritual jargon common from counterfeit spirits. The declared belief in the Catechism of the "infallibility of the (RCC) church" is but one example # 2035 "The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed."
Isaiah 64:6
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.”

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:”
 

BreadOfLife

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BOL using your red bolding gigantic font, with your aggressive rude tone , shows an attitude that is very condescending, very prideful and very disrespectful , bearing false witness as you do in every post, using adjectives like "moronic", "idiotic" etc.. & saying you are "schooling" or giving a "spanking" , if you would speak to anyone Like you have done in this thread, to anyone but a true Christian-- you would no doubt get a fist in the face, no doubt. I cannot see any other regular men putting up with it. I don't hold it against you though , only witness to your blindness. It is sadly evident by your posts the fruit you have.
But it's the institution of the RCC and the priesthood which includes the false seat of the Palpacy that I take issue with, I don't hold your sinful fallen character against you BOL because you cannot know better, and only know what you've been told & programmed to believe, when people are lost & deceived , lead astray by the false teachings of the RCC, their words & behavior reflect it.

To clarify : The sanctification is not salvation, we are only saved once by grace, through FAITH alone in Jesus finished work on the cross period, as written in scripture. We don't save ourselves & we don't work to keep our salvation, we cannot make ourselves clean, we can by our ownselves do nothing to save ourselves. As it says in Isaiah, and in Romans "All our righteousness is as filthy rags..., "there is none good ,no not one." That means absolutely none, but Jesus , the Lord, the Son of God.
When we are truly saved, born again from above with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, through Yeshuah , it is the Holy Spirit in us that produces good works as a by product of our salvation. This is also the good fruit.

One of the root sources of the false hoods perpetuated by the RCC is to identify itself as "THE" church mentioned in the Bible. IT is not "THE" church as mentioned in the Holy Scriptures. And therefore " the Roman Catholic Church" is not "infallible " as the catechism claims & this is the First False Premise which the RCC lays it's authority, labeling itself alone as "CHRIST's Church" and Falsely claiming the Pope (the vicar of Christ) can interpret all scripture because it's a divine God appointed lineage from Apostle Peter - which AGAIN , this is the Second False Premise the RCC authority is based upon. It is all the sly spiritual deception that has enthralled & taken hold of the RCC from top to bottom, by placing itself equal with GOD & as the Pope is declared the interpreter of Holy Scripture-- and since the Pope can interpret scripture he has been placed above God's WORD.

When reading the Catechism ,it can be witnessed how the RCC /in it's self-declared divine authority uses it's own license in it's declarations of the theology, dogma & spiritual doctrines it outlines. Great differences in the Catechism what is written in it, how it interprets Biblical doctrines , & how the catechism is written in oozy spiritual jargon common from counterfeit spirits. The declared belief in the Catechism of the "infallibility of the (RCC) church" is but one example # 2035 "The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed."
Isaiah 64:6
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.”

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:”
Let's start from the top down so as to avoid any confusion.

Your first remarks in RED are basically complaints because I have exposed both your blind hatred and your ignorance. I WARNED you that this was going to happen the first time we had an exchange. I told you that I was more than willing to have a charitable conversation with you regarding your misconceptions or questions about the Catholic Church - but YOU chose to go on the offensive and perpetuate the same tired old garbage that other anti-Catholics regurgitate.

Secondly - I have shown you that the official name of the Catholic Church not "Roman Catholic Church" (RCC), yet you continue to use that moniker out of pure hatred. You completely ignored this question from my last post.
You ALSO ignored my question as to where you got the idea that the Catholic Church claims to be "above God." I'm not letting this go until you answer these questions.

Thirdly - YOU claim that we are saved by "faith alone". I need for you to show me where the BIBLE makes this claim. The ONLY verse in ALL of Scripture where you will find the phrase "faith alone" is in James 2:24 where it says explicitly:
James 2:24
You see that a man is justified by works and NOT by faith alone.


You ALSO claim that Peter's succession is a "False Premise".
You need to substantiate this claim and show me HOW it is "false".

Additionally - YOU make the statement that the Catechism of Catholic Church claims that the Church is "infallible".
I OPENLY CHALLENGE you to show me where the Catechism makes this claim because you took the paragraph out of context.

Finally - I will continue to expose your nonsense at EVERY turn because people like YOU who LIE about the Catholic Church are doing Satan's work. God commanded that you shouldn't lie about ANYBODY.
 

tzcho2

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Let's start from the top down so as to avoid any confusion.

Your fruit is just not so good, dear sir.
You present a False gospel of faith plus works. That is a Fake gospel that leads to death not Life.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Your fruit is just not so good, dear sir.
Soooooo, are you saying that you don't have an answer for . . .

- Your claim that Peter's office is NOT successive - when Scripture says it IS??
- Your claim that the Catholic Church teaches Catholics to worship Mary??
- Why you idiotically refer to the Catholic Church as the "Roman Catholic Church" or "RCC"??
- Your claim that the Catechism of Catholic Church claims that the Church is "infallible"??
- The fact that the Bible says that we are justified by our WORKS and NOT by faith alone??
- Your claim that the Catholic Church teaches Catholics to worship statues??

That's what I thought. Your lies and your phony claims are what expose you.
All I did was point them out . . .
 
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BreadOfLife

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You present a False gospel of faith plus works. That is a Fake gospel that leads to death not Life.
Can you define "Faith" from Scripture??
What is "Faith", exactly??

Give me your definition - then I'll show you what the BIBLE says . . .
 

Ezra

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Funny - that's NOT what your Protestant Father taught.
They taught that we are "covered" by the righteousness of Christ and enter Heaven under HIS covering. they DIDN'T teach that we are actually MADE righteous. Luther referred to Christians entering Heaven as "snow-covered dunghills" - as if God can be fooled.
Ummmmmm, when did this teaching change?

Rev.21:27
states explicitly that NOTHING unclean or impure can enter Heaven - not even Luther's "snow-covered dunghills" . . .
what DO YOU THINK JUSTIFICATION MEANS READ 1 JOHN 1:7 & 9 YOUR LEARNING is way off
 
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Ezra

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JUSTIFICATION
justification is God's act of removing the guilt and penalty of sin while at the same time making a sinner righteous through Christ's atoning sacrifice. declared not guilty--just as if we had never sinned
John 15:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

1 Peter 1:18-20 King James Version (KJV)
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not "redeemed" with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
redeem

REDEE'M, v.t. L. redimo; red, re, and emo, to obtain or purchase.

1. To purchase back; to ransom; to liberate or rescue from captivity or bondage, or from any obligation or liability to suffer or to be forfeited, by paying an equivalent; as, to redeem prisoners or captured goods; to redeem a pledge.

2. To repurchase what has been sold; to regain possession of a thing alienated, by repaying the value of it to the possessor.

If a man shall sell a dwelling house in a walled city, then he may redeem it within a whole year after it is sold.


Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.



THERE IS NO PURGATORY THERE IS NO PROCESS OF BEING CLEANED MADE PURE AFTER DEATH ..it is not in the Bible .

you can try to make scriptures say something they are not... but you are adding to the word of God.


i suggest you study a Bible look up some words find out what they mean
 
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