Calvinism is a Cult

justbyfaith · Mar 10, 2019

Preacher4Truth said:
I don't typically respond to the unchurched know it alls, but I will to you one time only. Be assured that you will stand before Christ to give an account to him as to your unchurched position and condemning attitude.

He will judge according to truth on that day, and all your disdain for his bride while pointing your finger as you do will culminate in a not very good situation for you to put it lightly. Not that you'd repent but it is necessary to warn others.

Your above is one of the most unchristian and callow comments I've witnessed. Totally unnecessary and goes to show where your spiritual status really is. But, I expect nothing less from a person who knows more than all others in church, yet doesn't belong to a church, local or "otherwise."

I have no use for purposefully unchurched folks who point their fingers. I count these in the same manner as does 1 John 2:19.

As far as I am concerned she is very much like the Good Samaritan in comparison to you being the Levite or Pharisee; who walked by and gave no help to the man who had been accosted by thieves.

She may be unchurched; but I see the spirit of love in her more than in people like you.

justbyfaith · Mar 10, 2019

Dave L said:
Calvinism is Augustinianism affirmed by the Council of Ephesus in 431 as being true to scripture. They also affirmed "free will" is heresy. So you, as a "Oneness " person strike out on two counts. You are a heretic according to Ephesus on Free Will and Chalcedon on the Trinity.

You have been baptized in Jesus' Name yourself; and therefore you must not believe in the Trinity...

.

I have said to you over and over again that I believe in the Trinity; but that is not acceptable to you because of my emphasis on the Oneness of the Lord in my teaching in order to safeguard against Tritheism. Because you are a Tritheist and want to pass off your belief as Trinitarian, you just cannot get past the fact that even in my emphasis on the Oneness of the Lord, I do not deny that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct individuals within the Godhead.

And, in calling me a heretic you have three fingers pointing back at you. For it should be clear that Calvinistic doctrine is heresy, in that it denies such basic scriptures as Romans 5:1-2, Ephesians 2:8-9, and John 3:16-17.

It has to give added interpretation in order to make certain verses fit into its theology. Case in point: how Calvinism defines world with entirely opposite definitions depending on what verse you are looking at. (as evidenced by a previous post (#1586: Calvinism is a Cult), if one will take the time to read).

Helen · Mar 10, 2019

Preacher4Truth said:
I don't typically respond to the unchurched know it alls, but I will to you one time only. Be assured that you will stand before Christ to give an account to him as to your unchurched position and condemning attitude.

He will judge according to truth on that day, and all your disdain for his bride while pointing your finger as you do will culminate in a not very good situation for you to put it lightly. Not that you'd repent but it is necessary to warn others.

Your above is one of the most unchristian and callow comments I've witnessed. Totally unnecessary and goes to show where your spiritual status really is. But, I expect nothing less from a person who knows more than all others in church, yet doesn't belong to a church, local or "otherwise."

I have no use for purposefully unchurched folks who point their fingers. I count these in the same manner as does 1 John 2:19.

Wow you do have you knickers in a knot don't you!

What in the world do you mean by "Unchurched" ...
All those In Christ = Church.
Oh you must mean 'going to a building, sing some songs and hearing someone preach. ' = church.

I was probably "going to" church before you were born!
I was converted in a "church".
And to really give you something to fume about..for many years I preached in a "church".

I am old now and no, I do not religiously trot along on a Sunday morning at 11am to "have church".
At age 22 I became part of The Church...at age 77 I am still part of The Church.
So, define "unchurched" for us?

Nancy · Mar 10, 2019

"ByGrace" said:
Wow you do have you knickers in a knot don't you!

What in the world do you mean by "Unchurched" ...
All those In Christ = Church.
Oh you must mean 'going to a building, sing some songs and hearing someone preach. ' = church.

I was probably "going to" church before you were born!
I was converted in a "church".
And to really give you something to fume about..for many years I preached in a "church".

I am old now and no, I do not religiously trot along on a Sunday morning at 11am to "have church".
At age 22 I became part of The Church...at age 77 I am still part of The Church.
So, define "unchurched" for us?

Love when you get all fired up, speak it my sistah!

Butterfly · Mar 11, 2019

Well said Helen xxx

Dave L · Mar 11, 2019

justbyfaith said:
You have been baptized in Jesus' Name yourself; and therefore you must not believe in the Trinity... .

I have said to you over and over again that I believe in the Trinity; but that is not acceptable to you because of my emphasis on the Oneness of the Lord in my teaching in order to safeguard against Tritheism. Because you are a Tritheist and want to pass off your belief as Trinitarian, you just cannot get past the fact that even in my emphasis on the Oneness of the Lord, I do not deny that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct individuals within the Godhead.

And, in calling me a heretic you have three fingers pointing back at you. For it should be clear that Calvinistic doctrine is heresy, in that it denies such basic scriptures as Romans 5:1-2, Ephesians 2:8-9, and John 3:16-17.

It has to give added interpretation in order to make certain verses fit into its theology. Case in point: how Calvinism defines world with entirely opposite definitions depending on what verse you are looking at. (as evidenced by a previous post (#1586: Calvinism is a Cult), if one will take the time to read).

Jesus Christ is the name of YAHWEH, God, who is the triune Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Dave L · Mar 11, 2019

justbyfaith said:
According to Romans 10:10, your believing was unto righteousness; not salvation.

Confession is made unto salvation.

You are depicting God as a bully who makes people "say uncle" or else. But the truth is, saved people do all these things and persevere in them because God saved them.

Preacher4Truth · Mar 11, 2019

Dave L said:
Jesus Christ is the name of YAHWEH, God, who is the triune Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Yes, many do not know or believe Jesus is himself YHWH. Many vehemently deny this truth, but Scripture shows they are in error and do not know Him. Proof? John 8:24.

But today we have "Christians" who think they can believe whatever they want and still be "Christians." This stems from a distorted view of grace and an unbiblical view of belief that is curtailed to mean only mental assent to a few selected facts of Christ. They then call this "Christianity" and a heavy dose of Matthew 7:1 is served up in defense. That, of course, is a human based "faith," not the gifted faith that comes from God; Ephesians 1:19.

Dave L · Mar 11, 2019

justbyfaith said:
We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. Romans 5:2.

I always assumed that the Holy Spirit comes in as the result of the grace of the Lord.

In your scenario, grace comes then the Holy Spirit, then faith.

How then do we have access by faith into the grace wherein we stand? Faith came after grace and the Holy Spirit; in your scenario.

However, in the biblical model, faith is the catalyst for receiving grace and then the Holy Spirit.

Also, in Galatians 3:14, we receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. However in your model, the Holy Spirit comes first and then faith.

Do you see the contradiction?

It's perhaps too simple. If grace is infinite, it covers much more than basic salvation. We have access to all of God promises, all of God's grace through faith which is itself a gift of grace.
“And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:” (Acts 18:27) (KJV 1900)

Dave L · Mar 11, 2019

CoreIssue said:
Romans 10:17
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14) (KJV 1900)

Preacher4Truth · Mar 11, 2019

Dave L said:
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14) (KJV 1900)

It's amazing he can't see even in the verse he uses that faith is not innate or inherent in man as he preaches.

No, it is external, supernatural, and comes from God; Romans 12:3; Ephesians 1:19.

Vince · Mar 11, 2019

justbyfaith said:
God works with each person individually; but know this: that when all is said and done, everything that is required will take place in the life of any and every one who enters in to the kingdom of heaven.

What is everything that is required?

justbyfaith · Mar 11, 2019

Vince said:
What is everything that is required?

Hi Vince...

My personal take on this is that all that is required is faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 4:3, Romans 4:6).

This is qualified by the statement that our faith must be a living faith (accompanied by works); (while works do not save).

Salvation is assured to those who call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth for salvation (Romans 10:13, Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12); and this will effect a change in nature, behaviour, and character that is visible to man. Before man, we are justified by the transformation and how that works itself out in our lives by our behaviour. Before God, we are justified by the faith that brings about the transformation. Either way, we are not justified apart from the transformation. But we cannot transform ourselves; that comes about through faith alone in Jesus Christ, and what He did for us on the Cross. Being forgiven much, we will also love much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5). So the key might be to understand (experientially) the forgiveness that comes through believing in the finished work of Calvary's Cross. Love in the Bible is not in word or in tongue only, but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). It is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

I put it like this: If I give $5 to the poor, or even $5,000,000, that is not going to bring about the change of nature and character that we identify as salvation. The only thing that can bring about this change is faith in Jesus. Once the transformation is effected, however, I am more likely to give money (whatever the amount) to the poor; because my faith in Jesus means that His love is shed abroad in my heart and this = compassion for the poor. So it is not that I am saved by my works. It is that I am saved by my faith that produces works. You may think that this is a fine line and that I am simply mincing words, that it all amounts to the same thing. But I would say that the root of our behaviour is important. If I am doing good works because I think they will make me acceptable before God, then I am acting with an employee/employer relationship. I am seeking wages for services rendered. In God's economy, He will not owe any man anything (see Romans 4:4). He wants to give you salvation as a free gift (Romans 5:15-19) with no strings attached. Obedience is optional: God forgives you unconditionally on the basis of faith. His people shall be willing in the day of His power (Psalms 110:3). If you know that God gave you such a gift so freely, and really understand the nature of the gift, I believe that it will motivate you to serve Him. A key passage is Romans 4:1-8.

justbyfaith · Mar 11, 2019

Then there is receiving the Holy Ghost. God said that you will receive power when the Holy Ghost has come upon you in Acts of the Apostles 1:8.

God gives the Holy Spirit to them that obey Him (Acts of the Apostles 5:32); and one of the primary ways that we initially do this is to submit to baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

This is for when you begin to desire to have power for ministry; of course you must first be saved so that you might become ministry-minded.

Vince · Mar 11, 2019

justbyfaith said:
Hi Vince...

My personal take on this is that all that is required is faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 4:3, Romans 4:6).

This is qualified by the statement that our faith must be a living faith (accompanied by works); (while works do not save).

Salvation is assured to those who call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth for salvation (Romans 10:13, Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12); and this will effect a change in nature, behaviour, and character that is visible to man. Before man, we are justified by the transformation and how that works itself out in our lives by our behaviour. Before God, we are justified by the faith that brings about the transformation. Either way, we are not justified apart from the transformation. But we cannot transform ourselves; that comes about through faith alone in Jesus Christ, and what He did for us on the Cross. Being forgiven much, we will also love much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5). So the key might be to understand (experientially) the forgiveness that comes through believing in the finished work of Calvary's Cross. Love in the Bible is not in word or in tongue only, but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). It is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

I put it like this: If I give $5 to the poor, or even $5,000,000, that is not going to bring about the change of nature and character that we identify as salvation. The only thing that can bring about this change is faith in Jesus. Once the transformation is effected, however, I am more likely to give money (whatever the amount) to the poor; because my faith in Jesus means that His love is shed abroad in my heart and this = compassion for the poor. So it is not that I am saved by my works. It is that I am saved by my faith that produces works. You may think that this is a fine line and that I am simply mincing words, that it all amounts to the same thing. But I would say that the root of our behaviour is important. If I am doing good works because I think they will make me acceptable before God, then I am acting with an employee/employer relationship. I am seeking wages for services rendered. In God's economy, He will not owe any man anything (see Romans 4:4). He wants to give you salvation as a free gift (Romans 5:15-19) with no strings attached. Obedience is optional: God forgives you unconditionally on the basis of faith. His people shall be willing in the day of His power (Psalms 110:3). If you know that God gave you such a gift so freely, and really understand the nature of the gift, I believe that it will motivate you to serve Him. A key passage is Romans 4:1-8.

This is how I thought when I was a Christian although it does seem like works are required then. I don't have much problem with it as the Bible goes.

Why are you more likely to do good works if you have faith in god? Why is god needed to help others?

CoreIssue · Mar 11, 2019

Dave L said:
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14) (KJV 1900)

You just tried to read Corinthians as if it was part of Romans.

Two very valid verses on different issues.

Dave L · Mar 11, 2019

CoreIssue said:
You just tried to read Corinthians as if it was part of Romans.

Two very valid verses on different issues.

I used the Corinthians passage to show you must be born again before you can hear the gospel at a spiritual level. Otherwise you will hear it at a sinful fleshly level and make a law out of it. Thinking you are saved for keeping it. But law cannot save.

CoreIssue · Mar 11, 2019

Dave L said:
I used the Corinthians passage to show you must be born again before you can hear the gospel at a spiritual level. Otherwise you will hear it at a sinful fleshly level and make a law out of it. Thinking you are saved for keeping it. But law cannot save.

You misquoted the Bible.

Dave L · Mar 11, 2019

CoreIssue said:
You misquoted the Bible.

That's what it means.

Mjh29 · Mar 11, 2019

Lady Crosstalk said:
Then why did Jesus tell the woman caught in adultery to, "Go and sin no more"?

He told her not to commit this sin anymore. You think she lived the rest of her life sinless?

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