Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

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Dave L

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The primary example of a place in the New Testament where this occurs is in 1 Corinthians 8:6. Let us take a look at this, shall we?

1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Now it is clear, first of all, from this and other verses, that there is one God, the Father, and that there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.

Now assuming that Jesus is not the Father, He would be one Lord apart from the Father and the Father would be one God apart from Him. There would be the 1 God = the Father and the 1 Lord = Jesus Christ. This verse would appear to be denying the Deity of Jesus Christ, saying that He is the 1 Lord and not the 1 God.

So now, are you going to become a Jehovah's Witness rather than look into the scriptural evidence that the Father is the Lord and that Jesus is the one God? And rather than believe the truth, that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5), even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21)---and His name is Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 12:3)?



The answer to your psycho-dilemna is that the one Person, God, took on an added nature of humanity; and that this Person, being the continuation of the former, is distinct from the former and yet the same Person. The only thing preventing you from seeing this is that you probably somehow want to believe that God was originally 3 persons in eternity and that one of the 3 came down to become flesh and die for us. This is not the case. The Father came Himself. There are a few passages in Isaiah where God says that there is no God beside Him...but I will leave you to come across them in your regular devotional reading of Isaiah. If there is no God beside Him, then that means there is one God dwelling in eternity...and that if there is a God existing beside Him, that God is none other than Him...a reflection in the mirror, perhaps? But I would say more accurately that he descended into time and then ascended to again inhabit eternity in a body of human flesh...so they are the same Person and yet distinct from each other...they inhabit eternity side-by-side, while they are the same Person...because the Father became the Son in taking on an added nature of human flesh.

A few verses that I thought of because of your original question, just above:

Isa 55:8, For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9, For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

1Co 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


This is not to say that the real Trinity is something that we cannot understand. The truth of the matter is really very simple and easy to understand, once you become able to accept it. I believe that in the debates concerning the formulation of the creeds, the people who had the truth must have simply left off debating at some point, leaving the blind to be leaders of the blind.

But that the truth is a simple deal is very evident from scripture:

2Co 11:3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
You've been trained to impose the "oneness" framework over scripture. And you see it only their way. Solution? Try to objectively prove them wrong and start over learning about Christ and who he is. All of the above "oneness" proof texts take on new meaning if you understand the difference between the eternal Son of God and the incarnate Son of man. But for now, you are exhibiting the spirit of Antichrist in your understanding of these matters.
 

101G

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GINOLJC, to all
And instead of recognizing the clearly stated scriptural representation of God being three distinct persons of one spirit, you make him over into one person with a split personality not unlike any crazy person out there. This is blasphemy and a damnable heresy.
ok you say that you point out, instead of recognizing the clearly stated scriptural representation of God being three distinct persons of one spirit.

ok let's see, scripture to point out. only a yes or no is needed

#1. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made".

#2. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".

dave is this the same person in John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 yes or no?

please POINT out this for us.

PICJAG.
 
D

Dave L

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GINOLJC, to all

ok you say that you point out, instead of recognizing the clearly stated scriptural representation of God being three distinct persons of one spirit.

ok let's see, scripture to point out. only a yes or no is needed

#1. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made".

#2. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".

dave is this the same person in John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 yes or no?

please POINT out this for us.

PICJAG.
You are hung up on the demonic "oneness" filter which can only see a false Christ. If you junk the "one person" idea and realize God is three distinct persons of the same spirit, all at the same time, you will understand these passages.
 

101G

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You are hung up on the demonic "oneness" filter which can only see a false Christ. If you junk the "one person" idea and realize God is three distinct persons of the same spirit, all at the same time, you will understand these passages.
so again we can take this as you cannot answer the question.... :D

PICJAG.
 

101G

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You cannot grasp the answer.
you say,

now can you grasp John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 as the same person? ... lol.

dave you have struck out so many times until we stop counting.

you're just what the apostles said, Jude 1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots"

2 Peter 2:17 "These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2 Peter 2:18 "For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error".

as said dave, if you just want to talk, that's what facebook and tweeter are for.

PICJAG
 
D

Dave L

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you say,

now can you grasp John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 as the same person? ... lol.

dave you have struck out so many times until we stop counting.

you're just what the apostles said, Jude 1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots"

2 Peter 2:17 "These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2 Peter 2:18 "For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error".

as said dave, if you just want to talk, that's what facebook and tweeter are for.

PICJAG
You are deceived by the devil himself in the way you portray Christ.
 

justbyfaith

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@Dave L, you have obviously hardened your heart to the truth.

You've been trained to impose the "oneness" framework over scripture. And you see it only their way. Solution? Try to objectively prove them wrong and start over learning about Christ and who he is. All of the above "oneness" proof texts take on new meaning if you understand the difference between the eternal Son of God and the incarnate Son of man. But for now, you are exhibiting the spirit of Antichrist in your understanding of these matters.

You have three fingers pointing back at you. I have not been "trained" in the slightest. I simply got a different perspective on what the scriptures teach after having been baptized in Jesus' name; something that you obviously did for the wrong reasons: or you would also have received the Holy Ghost and come to the same understanding. FYI I have not sat under the teaching of Oneness Pentecostals for more than 10 hours of my life; my rendevous with them was short but I came out of that rendevous with the promised gift of the Holy Ghost.

Again I will say to you that God will not give a scorpion to someone who asks for, or does what it takes to receive, an egg. In asking for the Holy Ghost, and doing what it takes to receive the Holy Ghost, God is not going to give me the spirit of Antichrist...it is an impossibility according to scripture. See Luke 11:9-13, Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39.

However, Jesus said that if they call the Master of the house Beelzebub, how much more the members of His household? If they persecuted Him, they will also persecute those who truly follow Him.

You probably believe that you cannot possibly be a persecutor of Jesus or His disciples because you have religion...but let me say to you that Saul of Tarsus had religion and so did all of the scribes and Pharisees who put Jesus on the Cross.
 
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101G

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You are deceived by the devil himself in the way you portray Christ.
well, if I'm deceived by the devil himself, then you should correct me in answering the question we put forth.

is the Person in John 1:3, (the WORD, who is JESUS), the same person in Isaiah 44:24 (JESUS, the Eternal Spirit) who made all things.

we say it's the "SAME" person. and if I'm decieved you should say no it's a different person.

so dave you have the floor to agree with our assessment or not. your answer please by the scriptures.

PICJAG
 
D

Dave L

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well, if I'm deceived by the devil himself, then you should correct me in answering the question we put forth.

is the Person in John 1:3, (the WORD, who is JESUS), the same person in Isaiah 44:24 (JESUS, the Eternal Spirit) who made all things.

we say it's the "SAME" person. and if I'm decieved you should say no it's a different person.

so dave you have the floor to agree with our assessment or not. your answer please by the scriptures.

PICJAG
How can God be with God unless God is more than one person?
 

101G

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How can God be with God unless God is more than one person?
here's your answer, now listen carefully.
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth".

ok dave God said "US" and "OUR", right..... right. now listen, Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created".

HOW MANY IS "HE" dave? one person. now let's see the "US" and the "OUR". Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come".

the "FIGURE" of HIM, here Figure is the bodily shape that God himself "SHARED" himself in. listen, this is the "SHARE" to com.

let's see this SHARE clearly in the bible. Genesis 2:21 "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Genesis 2:22 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man".

Now Dave here's the Revelation of How the Lord Jesus could be with whom you say is God from the begining. God formed the Man, on Day three. Adam was alone by himself, until God brought forth, or (manifested) the woman to the man. listen, the Woman was always in the man from his formatation. the woman was in the man until she was brought forth on day six. hence the term "WOMAN" for she was taken out of man.

see dave, this is basic bible study. the woman was already in the Man before God brought her forth, or before she was manifested. just as the Lord Jesus is Spirit untill he "MANIFESTED" himself as the EQUAL in flesh. again, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

see dave, the ARM of God had not yet been revealed, came into the world until the fulness of time was come, see Galatians 4:4.

see dave JESUS is not a separate person from God, he is God only "SHARED" in Flesh and bone. which that flesh and bones now make him visible, which is the "SHARE" of himself in flesh. see Phil 2:6-8

conclusion: what was not seen is now made visible, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".

oh how easy this is.

PICJAG
 
D

Dave L

Guest
here's your answer, now listen carefully.
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth".

ok dave God said "US" and "OUR", right..... right. now listen, Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created".

HOW MANY IS "HE" dave? one person. now let's see the "US" and the "OUR". Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come".

the "FIGURE" of HIM, here Figure is the bodily shape that God himself "SHARED" himself in. listen, this is the "SHARE" to com.

let's see this SHARE clearly in the bible. Genesis 2:21 "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Genesis 2:22 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man".

Now Dave here's the Revelation of How the Lord Jesus could be with whom you say is God from the begining. God formed the Man, on Day three. Adam was alone by himself, until God brought forth, or (manifested) the woman to the man. listen, the Woman was always in the man from his formatation. the woman was in the man until she was brought forth on day six. hence the term "WOMAN" for she was taken out of man.

see dave, this is basic bible study. the woman was already in the Man before God brought her forth, or before she was manifested. just as the Lord Jesus is Spirit untill he "MANIFESTED" himself as the EQUAL in flesh. again, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

see dave, the ARM of God had not yet been revealed, came into the world until the fulness of time was come, see Galatians 4:4.

see dave JESUS is not a separate person from God, he is God only "SHARED" in Flesh and bone. which that flesh and bones now make him visible, which is the "SHARE" of himself in flesh. see Phil 2:6-8

conclusion: what was not seen is now made visible, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".

oh how easy this is.

PICJAG
Again, you depict God as crazy, having a split personality. This is blasphemy and evidence of the spirit of Antichrist blinding and using you to destroy the image of God in scripture.
 

101G

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Again, you depict God as crazy, having a split personality. This is blasphemy and evidence of the spirit of Antichrist blinding and using you to destroy the image of God in scripture.
well I guess that's a ... you cannot understand what we said? well lets put it in Laymans terms.

Where did the woman emanate from? The man

Where did Jesus emanate from the Spirit,

so how many Spirit are there… one. The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God. Let’s check the record, Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his”.

notice the cap "S" in both Spirit

Is the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God the SAME Spirit, yes, or no
if you say no then you have two Spirits...... :D and that antichrist.

PICJAG.
 

justbyfaith

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There is one Spirit according to Ephesians 4:4.

1 Corinthians 12:4-6 also has bearing on the issue.
 
D

Dave L

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Isa 55:8, For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9, For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Why does God reveal himself as the trinity time and again to those whom he saves?
 

101G

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There is one Spirit according to Ephesians 4:4.

1 Corinthians 12:4-6 also has bearing on the issue.
GINOLJC, to all.

first, you're correct, there is only ONE Spirit, and that's Spirit is the Holy .... Spirit. no third, or last person in any trinity. men has put the TRUE God Last in their wisdom. after all these years, they still are in the dark.

and yes, in 1 Corinthians 12:4 thes are the "diversities" of Gifts which the Holy Spirit give unto all men, (male and female). and these gifts are listed from verse 8-11.

and who gives these "GIFTS"? let the bible speak. Ephesians 4:7 "But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Ephesians 4:8 "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (STOP, who gave gifts? he who asended up on high, JESUS, the Holy Spirit)

this is backed up in Acts 2:33 "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear".

was this not prophesied in the OT? yes, Joel 2:28 & 29. and it was God, (the LORD, all caps) who said that he would pour out "his" spirit. but in Acts we see the Lord Jesus pouring out his spirit.

so yes, there is only one Spirit, who is Jesus. the Holy Ghost, who is LORD God.

PICJAG.
 

101G

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Why does God reveal himself as the trinity time and again to those whom he saves?
He never has revealed himself as a trinity, only as a diversity of himself.

and two you asked a polytheistic question, "How can God be with God unless God is more than one person?"
for if you say God the Son, and God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit then that's polytheistic.
because if you say God the Son was "WITH" God the Farher, then you have two Gods. so God can never be revealed as a trinity.

PICJAG.
 
D

Dave L

Guest
GINOLJC, to all.

first, you're correct, there is only ONE Spirit, and that's Spirit is the Holy .... Spirit. no third, or last person in any trinity. men has put the TRUE God Last in their wisdom. after all these years, they still are in the dark.

and yes, in 1 Corinthians 12:4 thes are the "diversities" of Gifts which the Holy Spirit give unto all men, (male and female). and these gifts are listed from verse 8-11.

and who gives these "GIFTS"? let the bible speak. Ephesians 4:7 "But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Ephesians 4:8 "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (STOP, who gave gifts? he who asended up on high, JESUS, the Holy Spirit)

this is backed up in Acts 2:33 "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear".

was this not prophesied in the OT? yes, Joel 2:28 & 29. and it was God, (the LORD, all caps) who said that he would pour out "his" spirit. but in Acts we see the Lord Jesus pouring out his spirit.

so yes, there is only one Spirit, who is Jesus. the Holy Ghost, who is LORD God.

PICJAG.
God is ONE Spirit having three persons. The Father Spirit, the Son Spirit, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not all there is to God. But one person in the Godhead.
 
D

Dave L

Guest
He never has revealed himself as a trinity, only as a diversity of himself.

and two you asked a polytheistic question, "How can God be with God unless God is more than one person?"
for if you say God the Son, and God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit then that's polytheistic.
because if you say God the Son was "WITH" God the Farher, then you have two Gods. so God can never be revealed as a trinity.

PICJAG.
God reveals himself as the Trinity to all true believers. If he does not, you are not a true believer. John says if you deny Jesus [and all that he is, the trinity] came in the flesh, [which you do] you have the spirit of Antichrist.