The Elect?

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Dave L

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Sounds like a human formula based on a dogma. God is not limited to your human ideas of how things work.

When Abraham believed God....was it because he was already saved? You will be dogmatic and say yes...and fully miss the mystery of God's relationship with mankind.
Faith is a fruit of the holy Spirit. So yes Abraham was saved and spoke accordingly.
 
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bbyrd009

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"We heard You coming and knew that we were naked, so we hid" (behind this "tree")
"Who told you that you were naked? Here, have a skin then"
 
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bbyrd009

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The believe based on sight. Not because they are born again and have the Holy Spirit.
demons don't have eyes dave, and It says "faith" not "belief?"

So what do you mean by "saved" and "born again" really, if not "I expect Jesus to turn into Apollo and come back to take me to the Elysian Fields, because I said the correct incantations.
I can influence God with my mouth"
etc
 
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bbyrd009

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That sounds very RC to me..so in court I am forgiven, cleared, and declared not guilty...but then, I am not really forgiven, ( ?) and I am still guilty?
How so????

...View attachment 5686
So fwiw you might note the diff in
"Bless me father for I have sinned" (or "I am saved," same diff; no diff) and
"I confess, I repent" (no "tree" needed)
 

Mjh29

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I would say no, only lack of faith is

Ok, so Christ's blood covered all sins of all men, and lack of faith is a sin. So his blood covered the sin that is lack of faith? So, this means everyone is in heaven, right? Then what is the point of having faith? Even if I don't have faith Christ's blood will cover that sin as well.
 

bbyrd009

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Ok, so Christ's blood covered all sins of all men, and lack of faith is a sin. So his blood covered the sin that is lack of faith? So, this means everyone is in heaven, right? Then what is the point of having faith? Even if I don't have faith Christ's blood will cover that sin as well.
but see how Death More Abundantly is now the goal, "everyone is in heaven" rather than no one has ever gone up to heaven

I came that you might have life, more abundantly
 

amadeus

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A humble person (the kind that God gives grace to) would not consider himself/herself to be part of the elect. God sees the future and knows His own. Our job is to depart from iniquity. But how far are we really able to depart from that which is offensive to God?

We need God's help every step of the way. Without Him we can do nothing.

The race is still in progress. Run to win!
Even so! Even if in our heart we believe God has taken us by the hand, we need to bite our tongue until and if He tells us to do otherwise. Too many people who may well in the end be a part of the Body of Christ should never, open their mouths when it would be better to keep them closed with regard to their personal salvation. God knows our end, but do we really? And if we do because God has revealed it to us, how much should be shared with everyone and how much should be awaiting His direction?
There is a time to speak and a time to remain silent according to Solomon's writings. At any time before we have finished this course, what do we know of our end? Should we be casting all of our pearls to the dogs and before swine?
 
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amadeus

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So then why not attribute things done that have value to God, rather than insisting upon the other way around? Neither the Good Samaritan nor the Roman Centurion were "converted" that I can read
Only one step in each case.

How many steps are required in each case for a person to end up with God at the end of his course? Likely the precise number differs from person to person. But how far ahead should we be looking?

"This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it." Psalm 118:24

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:33-34
 

amadeus

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Yet the sins of the whole world are atoned for, and we cannot Quote "God will change you mind for you" nor "Jesus will pick up your cross for you" anywhere, right. So I would contemplate how your words will fail you, even if they might be made to be true in a narrow sense wadr.
"...few there are who find it"
If we make the effort taking the first step in something that is necessary [to change our mind or to take up our cross] and asking Him for help as it is needed [when is it not?] then He will be there to take up the slack. God knows we cannot do it alone and when we also realize that but grab hold of that cross anyway by faith while asking Him to help us, will He refuse?

"And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." Mark 9:24
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7
"Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:3
 

amadeus

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The ELECT ?


I would say, the ELECT are those Called to Believe and Responded to the Call...
And have Become "made whole";
body, soul, spirit


Preselected?

I would say, PRE-Known, by God and their fate PRE-Pared.

Glory to God,
God Bless,
Taken
Does it relate then to this verse?

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful." Rev 17:14

He called many. Few of them were chosen for His reasons. How many of those both called and chosen were also faithful in the calling to which they were chosen?

God did know the final outcome but that final outcome was a result, was it not, of the decisions made by those who answered the call?
 
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amadeus

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"We heard You coming and knew that we were naked, so we hid" (behind this "tree")
"Who told you that you were naked? Here, have a skin then"
But before God gave them a skin, they sewed themselves their own covering from fig leaves! They thought they were properly covered, but God apparently did not think so. Does this also relate?