Baptism is it required?

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Alpha and Omega

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Is baptism required for our salvation or is it a sign of loyalty? The way that I like to see things is if Jesus did it then we should also. He got baptized, so should we?P.S. I was baptized into the Catholic church when I was very young but I suspect that does not count. Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.This verse I am particularly interested in. We see that we are saved by believing and baptism but we are damned by unbelief. I am confused really. Please shed some light on the subject.
 

Jordan

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(Alpha and Omega;54012)
Is baptism required for our salvation or is it a sign of loyalty? The way that I like to see things is if Jesus did it then we should also. He got baptized, so should we?P.S. I was baptized into the Catholic church when I was very young but I suspect that does not count. Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.This verse I am particularly interested in. We see that we are saved by believing and baptism but we are damned by unbelief. I am confused really. Please shed some light on the subject.
It's not talking about Water Baptism. Sure He did it at Matthew 3:13-17. But it is symbolic to what Christ said at John 3:5-7.I mean the thief at the cross who repented and believe that Christ is the Son of God. Yet Christ said this to him after he said...Luke 23:42 - And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom....Luke 21:43 - And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise....We only need the baptism of the Holy Ghost...the regeneration of the heart. If we also needed Water Baptism as well...then this scripture is wrong...Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
 

watt

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IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHere Iam Again To Share The Truth Of God Love(thesuperjag;54015)
it's Not Talking About Water Baptism. Sure He Did It At Matthew 3:13-17. But It Is Symbolic To What Christ Said At John 3:5-7.I Mean The Theif At The Cross Who Repented And Believe That Christ Is The Son Of God. Yet Christ Said This To Him After He Said...Luke 23:42 - and He Said Unto Jesus, lord, Remember Me When Thou Comest Into Thy Kingdom....Luke 21:43 - and Jesus Said Unto Him, Verily I Say Unto Thee, today Shalt Thou Be With Me In Paradise....We Only Need The Baptism Of The Holy Ghost...the Regeneration Of The Heart. If We Also Needed Water Baptism As Well...then This Scripture Is Wrong...Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, One Faith, One Baptism,
sorry..you Cannot Change "the Word Of God" By Writing Or By Explaination.Please John 3:5 Is The Real Thing....we Must Follow What Jesus Say. Not To Add Our Own Word To Suit Our Desire!!This Is God Plan, The Plan From The Father In Heaven And Our Lord Jesus Christ.This Is Why I Keep Telling You... Your Are Talking About Your Flesh.. Not About Jesus!!May God Forgive All Our Sin AmenFrom Watt
 

Rank Stranger

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Yes, we must be born again "spiritually", which means born in the Holy Spirit. That rebirth occurs when we first believe in Jesus sufficiently as the Son of God. At that instant the Holy Ghost enters into our bodies and dwells there for the rest of our lives.As a side note, the process of being born again is why true Christians can never lose their salvation. God knows what is in each of our hearts, and He can never make any mistakes. When He enters into a Christian, He already knows they will never turn away from Him at some point further along in their lives. So His indwelling is for the rest of their earthly lives, and never just a passing thing to be taken away later. God is never an Indian giver.Water baptism is our symbolic public acceptance of Jesus as our Savior. When we are let down under the water's surface, we symbolically die in Christ. And when we are raised up, that is our symbolic rebirth in Him, later to be victorious over the grave. There is also the symbolism of all our sins being washed away, although in reality they stay with us right to the instant of our deaths. It is at that point that life begets life and our sins are completely forgotten by God. The righteousness of Christ, which was inputed to our spiritual accounts at the instant of our belief and re-birth, is our eternal reward for that belief. Jesus' death on the cross was a perfect sin offering to God, permitting Him to forever become propitious towards all believers without compromising His own perfect holiness. Rank Stranger
 

Alpha and Omega

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IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHere Iam Again To Share The Truth Of God Lovesorry..you Cannot Change "the Word Of God" By Writing Or By Explaination.Please John 3:5 Is The Real Thing....we Must Follow What Jesus Say. Not To Add Our Own Word To Suit Our Desire!!This Is God Plan, The Plan From The Father In Heaven And Our Lord Jesus Christ.This Is Why I Keep Telling You... Your Are Talking About Your Flesh.. Not About Jesus!!May God Forgive All Our Sin AmenFrom Watt
:naughty: You use flesh this time my friend.5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Being born of water is the first birth (are we not 85% water?). Being born of spirit is the second birth. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.Water and flesh are really the same thing here.
 

Christina

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IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHere Iam Again To Share The Truth Of God Lovesorry..you Cannot Change "the Word Of God" By Writing Or By Explaination.Please John 3:5 Is The Real Thing....we Must Follow What Jesus Say. Not To Add Our Own Word To Suit Our Desire!!This Is God Plan, The Plan From The Father In Heaven And Our Lord Jesus Christ.This Is Why I Keep Telling You... Your Are Talking About Your Flesh.. Not About Jesus!!May God Forgive All Our Sin AmenFrom Watt
For one thing we are all carried in a sack of water so we are all born of water if you wanna be tecnical, but this water spoken of is the living water of Jesus Christ that comes through belief and repentance when the holy spirit comes unto one .There is the one baptism. Water is the outward symbolism,it is Desired but not required. There is one Baptism,one God, and one religon and that religion is Christian period. Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, you should be able to get this verse
 

Christina

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(Rank Stranger;54026)
Yes, we must be born again "spiritually", which means born in the Holy Spirit. That rebirth occurs when we first believe in Jesus sufficiently as the Son of God. At that instant the Holy Ghost enters into our bodies and dwells there for the rest of our lives.As a side note, the process of being born again is why true Christians can never lose their salvation. God knows what is in each of our hearts, and He can never make any mistakes. When He enters into a Christian, He already knows they will never turn away from Him at some point further along in their lives. So His indwelling is for the rest of their earthly lives, and never just a passing thing to be taken away later. God is never an Indian giver.Water baptism is our symbolic public acceptance of Jesus as our Savior. When we are let down under the water's surface, we symbolically die in Christ. And when we are raised up, that is our symbolic rebirth in Him, later to be victorious over the grave. There is also the symbolism of all our sins being washed away, although in reality they stay with us right to the instant of our deaths. It is at that point that life begets life and our sins are completely forgotten by God. The righteousness of Christ, which was inputed to our spiritual accounts at the instant of our belief and re-birth, is our eternal reward for that belief. Jesus' death on the cross was a perfect sin offering to God, permitting Him to forever become propitious towards all believers without compromising His own perfect holiness. Rank Stranger
agreed
 

Alanforchrist

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IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHere Iam Again To Share The Truth Of God Lovesorry..you Cannot Change "the Word Of God" By Writing Or By Explaination.Please John 3:5 Is The Real Thing....we Must Follow What Jesus Say. Not To Add Our Own Word To Suit Our Desire!!This Is God Plan, The Plan From The Father In Heaven And Our Lord Jesus Christ.This Is Why I Keep Telling You... Your Are Talking About Your Flesh.. Not About Jesus!!May God Forgive All Our Sin AmenFrom Watt
You disagree with all the scriptures that Supajag quoted, and put your own interpretaion on Jn 3: 5.The "Water" is the word of God. John 15: 3, Ephesians 5: 26.
 

treeoflife

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(Alpha and Omega;54027)
:naughty: You use flesh this time my friend.5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Being born of water is the first birth (are we not 85% water?). Being born of spirit is the second birth. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.Water and flesh are really the same thing here.
Amen. I was going to reply with this if nobody else had... but you have.Being born "of water" is our first birth... we must be born.We also must be born again. Two criteria. We must have been brought into existance in the flesh... and we must be born again.
 

treeoflife

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For one thing we are all carried in a sack of water so we are all born of water if you wanna be tecnical, but this water spoken of is the living water of Jesus Christ that comes through belief and repentance when the holy spirit comes unto one .There is the one baptism. Water is the outward symbolism,it is Desired but not required. There is one Baptism,one God, and one religon and that religion is Christian period. Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, you should be able to get this verse
Amen.
 

Jordan

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(watt;54025)
IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHere Iam Again To Share The Truth Of God Lovesorry..you Cannot Change "the Word Of God" By Writing Or By Explaination.Please John 3:5 Is The Real Thing....we Must Follow What Jesus Say. Not To Add Our Own Word To Suit Our Desire!!This Is God Plan, The Plan From The Father In Heaven And Our Lord Jesus Christ.This Is Why I Keep Telling You... Your Are Talking About Your Flesh.. Not About Jesus!!May God Forgive All Our Sin AmenFrom Watt
You disagree with all the scriptures that Supajag quoted, and put your own interpretaion on Jn 3: 5.The "Water" is the word of God. John 15: 3, Ephesians 5: 26.Are you going to continuing twisting scripture or do you rather want to His Word? That water you are referring to, doesn't exist in John 3:5-7.
 

TallMan

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Water baptism (immeersion, not springling) is the first thing commanded to people professing desire for Jesus' salvation, by the infilling of His Spirit (Titus 3:5). Anyone who refuses it will not be saved as they are not accepting Christ's command.It is the answer of a good conscience toward God, without which your faith is shipwrecked.John 3:5Vine's Expository dictionary makes the following good point concerning:-"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."The word translated "and" is kai in the greek which means "namely", "even" or "that is to say".This can be seen by looking at other verses where the word is used:-Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. (Matt.21:5)Did Jesus straddle an ass and it's foal at the same time?Of course not, he sat on a young ass.of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. (John 1:16)Does Christ's fulness not incluse grace, so we have to receive that in addition?Of course not!to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus (Eph.1:3)Was Paul writing to 2 distinct groups in Ephesus?Those who are saints and thoise who are faithful?Of course not.So, in John 3:5 Jesus is likening the Spirit to water (as he does elsewhere). There are not 2 new births, we are not born again of whater when we get baptised and born again again when we receive the Spirit.There are 2 states of being, you are born natural, without the Spirit of God within, when you receive His Spirit you become spiritual, a new creature.3:6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.v8 further clarifies:-The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.This is clearly referring to the speaking in tongues that was heard with every one when they received the Spirit in Acts - Acts 2:4, 33, 39; 10:44-46.
 

Jordan

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Water baptism (immeersion, not springling) is the first thing commanded to people professing desire for Jesus' salvation, by the infilling of His Spirit (Titus 3:5). Anyone who refuses it will not be saved as they are not accepting Christ's command.It is the answer of a good conscience toward God, without which your faith is shipwrecked.John 3:5Vine's Expository dictionary makes the following good point concerning:-"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."The word translated "and" is kai in the greek which means "namely", "even" or "that is to say".This can be seen by looking at other verses where the word is used:-Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. (Matt.21:5)Did Jesus straddle an ass and it's foal at the same time?Of course not, he sat on a young ass.of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. (John 1:16)Does Christ's fulness not incluse grace, so we have to receive that in addition?Of course not!to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus (Eph.1:3)Was Paul writing to 2 distinct groups in Ephesus?Those who are saints and thoise who are faithful?Of course not.So, in John 3:5 Jesus is likening the Spirit to water (as he does elsewhere). There are not 2 new births, we are not born again of whater when we get baptised and born again again when we receive the Spirit.There are 2 states of being, you are born natural, without the Spirit of God within, when you receive His Spirit you become spiritual, a new creature.3:6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.v8 further clarifies:-The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.This is clearly referring to the speaking in tongues that was heard with every one when they received the Spirit in Acts - Acts 2:4, 33, 39; 10:44-46.
So you are going to twist His Word once again. No where in John 3:5 is talking about Water Baptism. No where in John 3:8 is even referring to speaking in tongue. You are producing wicked fruits.
 

TallMan

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So you are going to twist His Word once again. No where in John 3:5 is talking about Water Baptism. No where in John 3:8 is even referring to speaking in tongue. You are producing wicked fruits.
You have made no attempt to answer the scriptural points I make, you have produced no light or added anything to anyone's understanding. Do you think you will win anyone over like this?
 

Jordan

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So you are going to twist His Word once again. No where in John 3:5 is talking about Water Baptism. No where in John 3:8 is even referring to speaking in tongue. You are producing wicked fruits.
You have made no attempt to answer the scriptural points I make, you have produced no light or added anything to anyone's understanding. Do you think you will win anyone over like this?What else do you want me to say after we gave you proof ages ago, and you deny it. We given you proofs in other threads...John 3:5 the word water is John 3:6 flesh... It was talking about the physical birth, born of a mother's womb.
 

TallMan

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What else do you want me to say after we gave you proof ages ago, and you deny it. We given you proofs in other threads...John 3:5 the word water is John 3:6 flesh... It was talking about the physical birth, born of a mother's womb.
You saying something is true is not proof!You have to do as I have done and show how it fits with the other scriptures on the subject, and if needed check the greek.You have neither done this nor shown my analysis to be false.
 

treeoflife

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You have made no attempt to answer the scriptural points I make, you have produced no light or added anything to anyone's understanding. Do you think you will win anyone over like this?
These points have been answered. Being born of water is not speaking of baptism. Jesus speaks in such ways so that He will be heard by those who choose to listen to what the Spirit of God confirms in His Word (which does not contradict itself). Saying that one must be baptized in order to be saved contridicts the most foundational promise in God's Word that we have been given through Christ's finished work--the promise that we are saved by grace through faith, not of works. We are saved by His finished work alone, and no works of our own, lest any man boast. No works, at all, period. He did it all. We must receive it.Being born of water is our conception and birth as human beings. One must be born of water (must come into being on in this life), and, one must be born of the Spirit.Satan, for example, can never meet these criteria. Because even if he were to change His mind about God, Christ did not die for him... he died for those who have been born of water--the first requirement for attaining Christ's gift of salvation.We can address this again and again if you want, and the answer will be the same. Baptism is not required for salvation. It is a deed that one should do because Jesus affirms it, and we should be obedient... but by no means is obedience to the law or any deed making us holy. Christ's finished work on the cross has done that, and that alone makes us worthy.Jesus also said to be perfect just as your Father in heaven is perfect Matthew 5:48. Now, go do it, or else you disobey.
 

Latter-day Saint

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I agree with TallMan on most points, though I am not sure about the gift of tongues being in John 3:8.Baptism is indeed required for salvation. In John 3:3, Jesus speaks of being born again. In verse 4, Nicodemus asks how to do it. Verse 5 is Jesus' instructions on how to be born again. It takes being born of water (baptism by immersion for the remission of sins) and being born of the Spirit (the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost).Obedience is required for us to receive salvation. We take part in the atonement of Jesus Christ by following Him. If Jesus was baptized "to fulfill all righteousness" (Matthew 3:15), ought we not also be baptized to fulfill righteousness, that is, to partake in the salvation Jesus offers? We should obey God's commandments. The commandment to be perfect in Matthew 5:48 just takes longer than the rest of the commandments.To interpret John 3:5 by saying that being born of water is our physical birth is a stretch to me. I think it would be more accurate to say that our physical birth is being born of blood, or born of flesh, and Jesus would have said so if He meant physical birth. Water refers to baptism by immersion.Mark 16:16 is a more explicit expression of the requirement of baptism. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." That is pretty straightforward. Belief and baptism are required for salvation.That baptism is required for salvation raises questions like "What about all the good people in the world that don't have the opportunity to be baptized? Is God just to condemn young children that have not received baptism before dying?" These questions, for me, are answered in part by 1 Corinthians 15:29, in which Paul speaks of those that are "baptized for the dead." It is possible for those that do not have the opportunity to be baptized in this life to have baptism done for them by those living now on earth.
 

Jordan

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I agree with TallMan on most points, though I am not sure about the gift of tongues being in John 3:8.Baptism is indeed required for salvation. In John 3:3, Jesus speaks of being born again. In verse 4, Nicodemus asks how to do it. Verse 5 is Jesus' instructions on how to be born again. It takes being born of water (baptism by immersion for the remission of sins) and being born of the Spirit (the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost).Obedience is required for us to receive salvation. We take part in the atonement of Jesus Christ by following Him. If Jesus was baptized "to fulfill all righteousness" (Matthew 3:15), ought we not also be baptized to fulfill righteousness, that is, to partake in the salvation Jesus offers? We should obey God's commandments. The commandment to be perfect in Matthew 5:48 just takes longer than the rest of the commandments.To interpret John 3:5 by saying that being born of water is our physical birth is a stretch to me. I think it would be more accurate to say that our physical birth is being born of blood, or born of flesh, and Jesus would have said so if He meant physical birth. Water refers to baptism by immersion.Mark 16:16 is a more explicit expression of the requirement of baptism. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." That is pretty straightforward. Belief and baptism are required for salvation.That baptism is required for salvation raises questions like "What about all the good people in the world that don't have the opportunity to be baptized? Is God just to condemn young children that have not received baptism before dying?" These questions, for me, are answered in part by 1 Corinthians 15:29, in which Paul speaks of those that are "baptized for the dead." It is possible for those that do not have the opportunity to be baptized in this life to have baptism done for them by those living now on earth.
Can you explain why Christ uses the word flesh in John 3:6 after the word in John 3:5 then?And your last paragragh difinately sounds like a Mormon teaching. There is no such as "Baptism for the dead" in God's Words. No dead people can be baptized by people who is still living here on Earth. In fact it is quite deceiving, in fact I'm pretty sure they don't believe in the resurrection...if I'm wrong, last time I checked, they believe there are female souls (also unbiblical) so they can make "spiritual babies" (again unbiblical)
 

Christina

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What part of this do some of you scriptures lawyers not get????Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Seems pretty straight forward to me