The Tribulation Calamity Events ??

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Bible_Gazer

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*[[Rev 13:15]] KJV* And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
 

Taken

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Addressing the OP only. it seems like, but it not. and the JOB will get don, which some have already been done.

not all these events are Tribulation Events, some before, during, and after.


B. the two witness are John the Baptist, and the Lord Jesus the Christ respectively.

Disagree.

I would say, the most likely candidates to Be thee Lord Gods Witnesses would be;
Moses, Elijah, and or Enoch.


Glory to God,
Taken
 

Davy

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Ok got a question on this.
The 7 trumpets -
no destruction at all ??

These trumpets in Rev. 8:13 tells us they are voices.
These Angels are the messenger.
So the messages was to warn about what was going to be coming, nothing is going to actually happened right ?
Would these be the messages together that cause those in Rev.18 "come out of her my people"

The 7 trumpets and vials seem to be parallel in the contents somewhat.

The 6th Trumpet, 6th Vial, and 6th Seal (first part) all happen at the same time, and is when the Antichrist comes, trib time.

The 7th Trumpet, 7th Vial, and 6th Seal (latter part) all happen at the same time, on the day Jesus returns.


Like I said, the last 3 Trumpet periods each have a Woe attached to them, and are the most important to understand. The locust army takes over on the 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe, the tribulation of 1260 days is on the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period, and Jesus comes on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe. Jesus comes on the 7th Vial, 7th Trumpet, 6-7th Seals, actually 777. The Antichrist comes on the 6th Trumpet, 6th Vial, and 6th Seal, or 666.
 

Davy

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[----------------------------------------Dan.9 "one week" (7 years)---------------------------------------------][END]*
.................................[------------------------------2300 days of Dan.8:14----------------------------------][END]*
[---------220 days-----][-----------1040 days--------][AOD][---------------1260 days------------------------][END]*
[----7 years pact------][---new temple/sacrifices----][AOD][--------latter "great tribulation"----------------][END]*

* END events, all on same day:
Day of The Lord with Jesus' 2nd coming with His army to do battle, Armageddon, day of God's consuming fire, start of Jesus' Millennial reign with His elect priests and kings, new sanctuary built/cleansed, separation of His sheep from the goats.
 

Bible_Gazer

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I would suggest that you go and start again your search for an answer about what will happen during the end times.

The charts you have provided have flaws in them.
those charts are questions , just thoughts provoking

End time to me is down at the end of the millennium.
Referring to the end of the ungodly mankind, all those who oppose Jesus will be cast into the lake of fire. Rev.20
When that is done.
Then the Holy City(his bride) will come down to earth. Rev.21
Earth then will be the heavenly place to dwell in.
 
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Davy

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those charts are questions , just thoughts provoking

End time to me is down at the end of the millennium.
Referring to the end of the ungodly mankind, all those who oppose Jesus will be cast into the lake of fire. Rev.20
When that is done.
Then the Holy City(his bride) will come down to earth. Rev.21
Earth then will be the heavenly place to dwell in.

The chart I made though comes directly from Scripture.

The final "one week" of Daniel 9:27 is symbolic of a 7 year period, the two halves of 1260 day periods. They are divided by the coming Antichrist ending sacrifices and placing the "abomination of desolation" (AOD) in Jerusalem at the MID point of the "one week", per Dan.9:27 and Dan.11 ("vile person" as the Antichrist).

In Dan.8:13, the question is asked how long will be the vision of the daily sacrifice, and transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot. That is about the newly established daily sacrifice in a new temple for the "one week", and then Antichrist coming to end the sacrifices and place the abomination idol instead, with the Gentiles treading the city and outer court, which Rev.11 tells us will last 42 months.

The answer given was unto 2300 days, then the sanctuary will be cleansed. But Jesus showed in Matthew 24 with the signs of the end that there won't be one stone atop another on the temple mount when He returns to flatten it (today, there are still huge stones atop one another there, called the Western Wall, or Wailing Wall). That means from the time the daily sacrifices start again, to the AOD setup, and to the end of the "one week", will be 2300 days, and then Jesus' 2nd coming and cleansing of the new sanctuary. That signifies to put the end of the 2300 days at the end on the day when Jesus returns and cleanses the new temple that He will build in Jerusalem (i.e., Ezekiel's temple, a Millennial temple). This all means the first 1260 day period is divided into two parts, a 220 day period, and a 1040 day period (i.e., 2300 days minus 1260 days). After the 220 days, the temple today's Jews will build will be finished with sacrifices started again.
 

Davy

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those charts are questions , just thoughts provoking

End time to me is down at the end of the millennium.
Referring to the end of the ungodly mankind, all those who oppose Jesus will be cast into the lake of fire. Rev.20
When that is done.
Then the Holy City(his bride) will come down to earth. Rev.21
Earth then will be the heavenly place to dwell in.

Moreover, God's River and the tree of life are shown having returned to the earth in conjunction with a sanctuary, per Ezekiel 47. And that chapter reveals its location on earth in the promised land. This is where Christ and His elect Church is going to return to, and reign for the "thousand years" of Rev.20. Zechariah 14 specifically reveals this return to that spot on earth, and not a rapture up in Heaven to live.

One of the problems many brethren have is with not understanding the difference between today's world with the flesh, and the future after Jesus returns when we are all changed to the "spiritual body", and living on earth in that new kind of body. When that happens, the Heavenly is going to be revealed right here, on earth. The Heavenly dimension will then no longer be a mystery. God's Plan of Salvation through His Son involves living on this earth, not living up in the 'air'.
 

Jay Ross

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those charts are questions , just thoughts provoking

End time to me is down at the end of the millennium.
Referring to the end of the ungodly mankind, all those who oppose Jesus will be cast into the lake of fire. Rev.20
When that is done.
Then the Holy City(his bride) will come down to earth. Rev.21
Earth then will be the heavenly place to dwell in.

That was not explicit in your posts.
 

101G

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Disagree.

I would say, the most likely candidates to Be thee Lord Gods Witnesses would be;
Moses, Elijah, and or Enoch.


Glory to God,
Taken
GINOLJC, to all
first thanks for your reply. second, Moses, Elijah, and or Enoch which I have heard of, do fit the symbolism used here in Revelation 11, but only in symbolism. the bible is clear as to who the two witness are. but if you like, you can put you understanding of why these are the two witness on the table and let us examine your beliefs, we all can lean a thing or two.

looking forward to your position on the two witness.

PICJAG.
 

Taken

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GINOLJC, to all
first thanks for your reply. second, Moses, Elijah, and or Enoch which I have heard of, do fit the symbolism used here in Revelation 11, but only in symbolism. the bible is clear as to who the two witness are.

Where in Scripture are those clear teachings?

but if you like, you can put you understanding of why these are the two witness on the table and let us examine your beliefs, we all can lean a thing or two.

I merely suggested a possibility of three being candidates as witnesses.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

101G

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Where in Scripture are those clear teachings?



I merely suggested a possibility of three being candidates as witnesses.

Glory to God,
Taken
first thanks for the reply, and second, Moses, & Elijah are the symbolic representatives of the the two witnesses that came, John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus the Christ..

PICJAG
 

Taken

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first thanks for the reply, and second, Moses, & Elijah are the symbolic representatives of the the two witnesses that came, John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus the Christ..

PICJAG

Thanks but I don't see your opinion as a clear Scriptural revealing.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

101G

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Thanks but I don't see your opinion as a clear Scriptural revealing.

Glory to God,
Taken
first thanks for the reply. second, here's the reasons why we believe that John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus are the two witness.

The Prophet John the Baptist parallels the Prophet Elijah.

What is a parallel? a person or thing that is similar or analogous to another.

What is analogous? comparable in certain respects, typically in a way that makes clearer the nature of the things compared. it is synonyms with, comparable, parallel, similar, and equivalent

#1. Both are Prophets.

#2. Both had the similar dress.

#3. Both confronted kings of their day.

#4. Both were preachers to the nations

#5. Both have water connections as did the Lord Jesus and Moses. here the Jordan river

#6. Both Rebuke Israel for Corruption in Their Religion.

#7. They Both Were Victims of Evil Women.

and there are more.

but let's get to the main point of the analogous, let's make it clear.

Was John the Baptist the Actual flesh and bone blood man Elijah? NO, and I say again NO. but is he in "spirit" and "POWER"? yes. the Elijah to come before the great and dreadful day of the LORD? YES, without a doubt.

POINT #1. In Malachi 4:5-6, God announced that He would send “Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD and to turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers.”

these verses are parallel to Luke 1:15-17 "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 "And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God 17 "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord". ON POINT verse for verse.

this is like reading a newspaper headline from the OT in the NT. John was to be in the "spirit" and "power" of Elijah, not the man Elijah, but in power and spirit of him.

Point #2.The Lord Jesus identified John as Elijah. Matthew 11:13 & 14 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 "And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come".

but the Lord Jesus made this same statement again at his transfiguration. Matthew 17:9-12 "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. 10 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them".

now listen to verse 13 carefully, "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist".

now everyone just STOP for a moment. question time, can the Lord Jesus LIE? no. well if the Lord Jesus said that this is Elijah, John the Baptist, that is to come and is already came then what's the argument?

this also kills the notion by some Jews who are still waiting for Elijah to come. my God.....

Point #3. Isaiah 40:2 & 3 "Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins 3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God".

several other points to make here,
(a). 3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness". what did John say? John 1:21-23 "And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 "Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 "He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias". BINGO, can't get any clearer that that. that's a direct quote from the prophet Isaiah. John said that he is that voice.

Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD".
Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts".
here is that fulfilment,
Matthew 11:7 "And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
Matthew 11:8 "But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
Matthew 11:9 "But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
Matthew 11:10 "For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
WHAT DID THE LORD JESUS SAY ABOUT JOHN?, For this is he, of whom it is written. again BINGO, John the Baptist is the Elijah to come.


(b). "Prepare ye the way of the LORD". that's LORD all caps..., is not JESUS the "Lord" that came? but Isaiah said, "LORD" all cap, our God. please read Isaiah 40:3 again. this directly tells us JESUS is God in flesh as a MAN, wich comfirm John 1:1. the LORD in flesh as, as, as, a man.

JESUS is the LORD in the OT without flesh. and JESUS is the Lord in the NT with flesh. how easy this is. men doctrine make it hard to understand.

so the conclusion: John the Baptist is the Elijah to come in "spirit" and "power". NOT the flesh and blood man Elijah. but his "foreshadow".

a re-reading of this posting might be necessary for proper digestion of this meat.

Just go back over this post from the beginning and look at the analogous of the TWO PROPHETS.

PICJAG
 

101G

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Thanks but I don't see your opinion as a clear Scriptural revealing.

Glory to God,
Taken
Now the Lord Jesus and Mose their similarities.
we will make it short and to the point, since we have John the Baptist as a reference.

Here are some compiled similarities between the Lord Jesus the Christ and the prophet Moses.
1. both have a close relationship with God. Moses a face to face with Physical barriers meeting. the Lord Jesus Spiritual Face to face. John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (for he is the share of God himself in flesh)'

2. both were ordained by God to deliver his people from bondage. Moses Physical bondage, the Lord Jesus Spiritual bondage. (side note: this eliminates any unitarian claim on a human saviour)

3. both Moses and the Lord Jesus were saved from certain death when they were small children, while most other Israelite male children of the same age and place of birth were murdered. Moses under pharaoh in Egypt. the Lord Jesus under Herod the king.

4. both the Lord Jesus and Moses refused the possibility to become rulers in their age. Satan offered Jesus the rule over the kingdoms of this world (Matthew 4:8-9), but Jesus rejected that offer and chose to suffer and die for the sake of the people of the world. Moses acted in a similar manner; he had been raised as a son in a royal family, and he could have had a lavish lifestyle, but he chose differently. he suffered for the people sake.

5. both the Lord Jesus and Moses were "called out of Egypt". Matthew 2:15 "And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son". also see Hos 11:1;

6. both Moses and the Lord Jesus interceded for Israel, not allowing the destruction of the nation

7. both the Lord Jesus and Moses "mediated" between Israel, (now the church), and the true God. for both are Mediators.

8. both the Lord Jesus and Moses were Lawgivers. Moses the carnal Law of Stone. Jesus the Spiritual Law of the heart.

9. both had water connections. The Nile (water) into blood/red. Water into wine/red, the wedding at Cana

10. both died, and neither are in their GRAVES.

11. both had mother who was not their biological mothers.

12. both talked to God on mountains tops. and God confirmed both.

this is just a few, their are many more. By now one should have the understanding of who the two witness are.

Conclusion: the two witness are the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist. The Gospel, and Baptism are still in the earth witnessing even today.

PICJAG
 

Taken

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first thanks for the reply. second, here's the reasons why we believe that John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus are the two witness.

The Prophet John the Baptist parallels the Prophet Elijah.


Thank you for your time and effort of your explaination for your claims and teaching.


(b). "Prepare ye the way of the LORD". that's LORD all caps..., is not JESUS the "Lord" that came? but Isaiah said, "LORD" all cap, our God. please read Isaiah 40:3 again. this directly tells us JESUS is God in flesh as a MAN, wich comfirm John 1:1. the LORD in flesh as, as, as, a man.

I have made no claim to the contrary, so not sure why you think I need to reread to come to a conclusion, I already have.

JESUS is the LORD in the OT without flesh. and JESUS is the Lord in the NT with flesh. how easy this is. men doctrine make it hard to understand.

I have not confusion of WHO the Lord is, so not sure of your attempt to make an impression of what I have already on numerous occasions testified to such facts.

so the conclusion: John the Baptist is the Elijah to come in "spirit" and "power". NOT the flesh and blood man Elijah. but his "foreshadow".

The clearest identification of the TWO WITNESSES in Rev 11:3, TO COME, is identified in Rev 11:4.
They are TWO olive trees and TWO candlestick STANDING before the God OF the earth.
They RECEIVE POWER.
Clothing is indicative of WHITE ROBES given the dead and raised.
AFTER they finish their Testimony (3 1/2 years);
They suffer a physical DEATH,
And THEN the Spirit of God ENTERS THEM and then; are Raised Up. (Rev 11: 7-12)

Rev 11:3
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Rev 11:4
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

It is already KNOWN, of past Prophets and past kings WHO Receiv-ED power of God.

It is already KNOWN, Jesus, appeared in the Flesh Likeness AS a man, and revealed BY God to men, that Jesus IS the CHRIST, and CHRIST IS the Power of God.

It is already KNOWN, Once knowledge of God IS revealed, that knowledge IS for mankind, and NOT UNDONE.

CHRIST can NOT Be "given" POWER, as Rev 11:3 reveals the TWO WITNESSES shall be given.

I am leaning toward the TWO WITNESSES (yet to Come) have not YET experienced a PHYSICAL DEATH.

I am of the OPINION, both John the Baptist and Jesus ALREADY CAME, and experienced Physical Death.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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Now the Lord Jesus and Mose their similarities.
we will make it short and to the point, since we have John the Baptist as a reference.

Here are some compiled similarities between the Lord Jesus the Christ and the prophet Moses.
1. both have a close relationship with God. Moses a face to face with Physical barriers meeting. the Lord Jesus Spiritual Face to face. John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (for he is the share of God himself in flesh)'

2. both were ordained by God to deliver his people from bondage. Moses Physical bondage, the Lord Jesus Spiritual bondage. (side note: this eliminates any unitarian claim on a human saviour)

3. both Moses and the Lord Jesus were saved from certain death when they were small children, while most other Israelite male children of the same age and place of birth were murdered. Moses under pharaoh in Egypt. the Lord Jesus under Herod the king.

4. both the Lord Jesus and Moses refused the possibility to become rulers in their age. Satan offered Jesus the rule over the kingdoms of this world (Matthew 4:8-9), but Jesus rejected that offer and chose to suffer and die for the sake of the people of the world. Moses acted in a similar manner; he had been raised as a son in a royal family, and he could have had a lavish lifestyle, but he chose differently. he suffered for the people sake.

5. both the Lord Jesus and Moses were "called out of Egypt". Matthew 2:15 "And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son". also see Hos 11:1;

6. both Moses and the Lord Jesus interceded for Israel, not allowing the destruction of the nation

7. both the Lord Jesus and Moses "mediated" between Israel, (now the church), and the true God. for both are Mediators.

8. both the Lord Jesus and Moses were Lawgivers. Moses the carnal Law of Stone. Jesus the Spiritual Law of the heart.

9. both had water connections. The Nile (water) into blood/red. Water into wine/red, the wedding at Cana

10. both died, and neither are in their GRAVES.

11. both had mother who was not their biological mothers.

12. both talked to God on mountains tops. and God confirmed both.

this is just a few, their are many more. By now one should have the understanding of who the two witness are.

Conclusion: the two witness are the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist. The Gospel, and Baptism are still in the earth witnessing even today.

PICJAG

I would conclude Both the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist already came, already Testified, already Died, already were Raised up. And their testimony is carried on by the Lords Servants. (WHOM are primarily Gentiles teaching ..... GENTILES, not Jews)

I would add, more Specifically...
It is IN Jerusalem, TO the Jews, TO whom the TWO WITNESSES are primarily WITNESSING TO. <--- THEY are primarily the People of God, who have YET to be Preached BY JEWS, that Jesus is their Christ Messiah.

God Bless,
Taken
 
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Bible_Gazer

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Well there still clouds of witnesses of Jesus to day, even in Israel .
The church is a witness.
It does say two candlesticks and two olive trees .
Rev.1 says candlesticks were churches and Rom.11 olive trees

You can read that a person symbols is a group of people.
example = the bride - she is not just one woman, but consist of many members.
another one = the harlot, is she just one or is she a many members consisting of that city.
another one = the four beasts in Rev.5 = is there really 4 beast or do they represent redeemed kind of people.
So maybe the two witnesses represent the church preaching the everlasting gospel, come out of her my people.

Church has been persecuted and will be again, but she will win this time around.
The calamity will be on the bad guys.
 

Davy

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Well there still clouds of witnesses of Jesus to day, even in Israel .
The church is a witness.
It does say two candlesticks and two olive trees .
Rev.1 says candlesticks were churches and Rom.11 olive trees

You can read that a person symbols is a group of people.
example = the bride - she is not just one woman, but consist of many members.
another one = the harlot, is she just one or is she a many members consisting of that city.
another one = the four beasts in Rev.5 = is there really 4 beast or do they represent redeemed kind of people.
So maybe the two witnesses represent the church preaching the everlasting gospel, come out of her my people.

Church has been persecuted and will be again, but she will win this time around.
The calamity will be on the bad guys.

Rev.11 is pointing to 2 literal witnesses in Jerusalem that will be killed with their dead bodies laying the plaza in Jerusalem. The whole world will see their dead bodies. That means a literal event, no mistake about that.

Because two candlesticks are also involved in giving that testimony, and the candlesticks Jesus told us are symbolic of the Churches in Asia, it means His elect also giving a testimony against the beast during the tribulation, which is something He specifically covered in the events for the end of this world, per His Olivet discourse...

Mark 13:9-13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.


12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
KJV


The Greek word "publish" in verse 10 means to 'herald', like town criers used to do standing on soap boxes in the town square.