The Tribulation Calamity Events ??

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Enoch111

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I would add, more Specifically...
It is IN Jerusalem, TO the Jews, TO whom the TWO WITNESSES are primarily WITNESSING TO. <--- THEY are primarily the People of God, who have YET to be Preached BY JEWS, that Jesus is their Christ Messiah.
I would take that one step further and indicate that it will be Moses and Elijah -- the two OT prophets who met with Christ at His Transfiguration -- who will literally be on earth as those two witnesses during the 3 1/2 years of the reign of the Antichrist.
 

Taken

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I would take that one step further and indicate that it will be Moses and Elijah -- the two OT prophets who met with Christ at His Transfiguration -- who will literally be on earth as those two witnesses during the 3 1/2 years of the reign of the Antichrist.

I have already mentioned a leaning toward Moses, Enoch, and or Elijah (post # 50) as being likely candidates as the TWO witnesses mentioned in Revelations.

Aside from WHO specific, IDK, and okay with that, since NEITHER is going to be Testifying "to me", of the existance and power and glory of Thee Lord God Almighty. :)

God Bless,
Taken
 

101G

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I would conclude Both the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist already came, already Testified, already Died, already were Raised up. And their testimony is carried on by the Lords Servants. (WHOM are primarily Gentiles teaching ..... GENTILES, not Jews)

I would add, more Specifically...
It is IN Jerusalem, TO the Jews, TO whom the TWO WITNESSES are primarily WITNESSING TO. <--- THEY are primarily the People of God, who have YET to be Preached BY JEWS, that Jesus is their Christ Messiah.

God Bless,
Taken
first thanks for the reply, and second, that's your oponion.. no problem. was not the gospel spreaded from Jerusalem by Jews after the martyr of our brother Stephen
Acts 8:1 "And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Acts 8:2 "And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.
Acts 8:3 "As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
Acts 8:4 "Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

Acts 11:19 "Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only". and the futher spreading of the gospel to all the world was went ... Acts 11:25 "Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul". when sent by the Holy Ghost to all the known world.

the book of Revelation is really a mini bible like the book of Isaiah which have 66 chapters as the bible have 66 book. many think all of Revelation is future, not so.
Revelation is a record of which was, which is, and which is to come.

I have found reading the Book, from chapter 12, the birth of Christ, (which line up with the account in Matthews chapter 2), backward to chapter 4 is what was. and 12b, which is, at that time, then forward to which is to come.

PICJAG
 

historyb

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If that were true we would all be in the New Heavens and the New Earth already. The bulk of the prophecies in Revelation are for the future.

Revelation was not written for us nor the future. The book was written for the Christian undergoing persecution under Rome, it was to give them hope. The whole of Revelation is symbolic and only the Ancient Christians had the key to figure it out. We have something we can't even begin to understand that is why we have all the wild theories and some Christians are obsessed with the end times instead of figuring out how to live a Christian life.
 

Enoch111

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The whole of Revelation is symbolic and only the Ancient Christians had the key to figure it out.
Where did you learn this fallacy? Are you suggesting that there will never be a literal New Heavens and New Earth ever established? "Wherein dwelleth righteousness"? That the New Jerusalem is symbolic of WHAT?
 

historyb

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Because Revelation was not written to 21st century man, it was a book of hope for the Christians of that time to show that what there hope was. It was showing them tat all the death and torture was not or nothing
 

101G

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Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 1:2 "Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

PICJAG.
 

Bible_Gazer

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Well talk about another calamity by the two witnesses

Revelation 11:5-6 (KJV)

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

But not enough to destroy all their enemies.

Revelation 11:7 (KJV)
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
 

101G

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Shortly, not a thousand years later.
Revelation 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be".

nor is quickly a thousand years, unless if speaking of God time. 2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day".

if we used this scale of time, the Lord Jesus has only been gone just a couple days, which is Shortly comapring a weekly days period of time.

PICJAG.
 
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101G

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Well talk about another calamity by the two witnesses

Revelation 11:5-6 (KJV)

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

But not enough to destroy all their enemies.

Revelation 11:7 (KJV)
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
verse 5 is answered by Jeremiah 5:14 "Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them".
verse 6 is simply symbolic identification of Moses, and Elijah, to John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus.

the destruction come in the end times, for both witness of these two are in the earth today. baptism, and the Gospel.

verse 7, this is why they are called a "WITNESS", which is a martyr.

PICJAG.
 

historyb

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Revelation 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be".

nor is quickly a thousand years, unless if speaking of God time. 2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day".

if we used this scale of time, the Lord Jesus has only been gone just a couple days, which is Shortly comapring a weekly days period of time.

PICJAG.

Sorry I don't buy that.
 

Taken

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first thanks for the reply, and second, that's your oponion.. no problem.

Discussing Scripture indept on a forum, I find quite limiting and inasmuch as my opinions are expressed, so also are yours. And as well, no problem.

was not the gospel spreaded from Jerusalem by Jews after the martyr of our brother Stephen
Acts 8:1 "And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Acts 8:2 "And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.
Acts 8:3 "As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
Acts 8:4 "Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

Acts 11:19 "Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only". and the futher spreading of the gospel to all the world was went ... Acts 11:25 "Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul". when sent by the Holy Ghost to all the known world.

the book of Revelation is really a mini bible like the book of Isaiah which have 66 chapters as the bible have 66 book. many think all of Revelation is future, not so.
Revelation is a record of which was, which is, and which is to come.

I have found reading the Book, from chapter 12, the birth of Christ, (which line up with the account in Matthews chapter 2), backward to chapter 4 is what was. and 12b, which is, at that time, then forward to which is to come.

PICJAG

Inanutshell, Jesus came as a Jew to seek Jews. Jesus taught Jews to teach Jews. And over the last 2,000+ years, history has shown us WHO is the majority who has ACCEPTED Jesus the Christ Messiah. The world is "Hearing" the Name Jesus being the Christ Messiah. Accepting is the key. While the Gentiles flock to the NT Covenant, Jews haven't even though It was written FOR ALL.
However we can not overlook the passages written in the NT Specifically to the Jews.

Jews were historically steeped in the knowledge of God, whereas Gentiles were not. Both Jews and Gentiles have to land in the SAME PLACE, with Belief in God & Christ.
It is more than obvious Both Jews and Gentiles are NOT landing in the SAME PLACE at the SAME TIME.
Praise God, nothing is new to Him, and He has a specific plan for both to be reconciled unto Him, "according" to His plan.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Taken

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Romans 2:28 & 29.

PICJAG.

Well aware Jesus' seeking of the Jews was to reveal more knowledge their forefathers did not know.

Early Hebrews were taught to cut off a piece of their skin, and that skin given to die; whereas Jesus taught a new dying, being bodily spiritually crucified with Christ and the Lord God's spiritual circumcision of the mans heart.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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101G

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Well aware Jesus' seeking of the Jews was to reveal more knowledge their forefathers did not know.

Early Hebrews were taught to cut off a piece of their skin, and that skin given to die; whereas Jesus taught a new dying, being bodily spiritually crucified with Christ and the Lord God's spiritual circumcision of the mans heart.

Glory to God,
Taken
GINOLJC, to all.

first thanks for your reply. second, God, the Lord Jesus taugh all men the NEW BIRTH after this physical death, the Hebrews are just a Johnny come latley. he taught it in Genesis 2:3 and explianed it to the nation of Israel fully in Exodus 23:12.

the same with circumcision, Deuteronomy 10:16 "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked". as the apostle Paul as before pointed it out.
Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Romans 2:29 "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God".

men was circumcised and holding God feasts before Israel was even a nation. so the Jews have nothing on no one. or anyone else, vice cersa.

PICJAG.
 

Bible_Gazer

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The calamity from the Vials Rev.16
1. noisome and grievous sore = on those with the mark of the beast
2. on the sea = become blood = every living soul died
3. on the river and fountains of waters = became blood
4. on the sun = to scorch men with fire
5. on the seat of the beast = darkness and pain
6. on the Euphrates river to dry up = make way for the kings of the east
7. on the air = thunders and lighting and earthquake and great hail out of heaven

v.17 it is done
 
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Taken

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GINOLJC, to all.

first thanks for your reply. second, God, the Lord Jesus taugh all men the NEW BIRTH after this physical death, the Hebrews are just a Johnny come latley.

Disagree.

he taught it in Genesis 2:3 and explianed it to the nation of Israel fully in Exodus 23:12.

Disagree.

the same with circumcision,

Disagree.

Deuteronomy 10:16 "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked".

Already covered that;

The ACT of MAN is Foreskin Circumcision.
The ACT of GOD is Heart Circumcision.

It represents A BONDED Agreement Between
A man and Thee Lord God.

as the apostle Paul as before pointed it out.
Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Already covered; Jesus' Came to REVEAL knowledge "not Known" to the Jews.

"Not Known" ? Correct.
Hebrews has Historically been calling on the Name of the LORD.
Men from Judah, (Jews) Historically been calling on the Name of the LORD.

Revealing of Jesus IN Judea.
Jesus' Prophetic travels and Ministry.
Jesus choosing Jews to teach His Word.
Introduction of the TERM "LOST Sheep".
Descendants, who no fault of their own,
...having become LOST to the Word of God.
Jesus' crucifixion.
Jesus' appointed Apostles (teachers) carrying on Jesus' ministry, and Knowledge Jesus revealed To Them; Jews primarily in Judea, and surrounding areas.

Matt 15
[24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Gentiles were NOT LOST. They had NOT primarily been INCLUDED.

The LOST had been INCLUDED, and then BECAME LOST.

Romans 2:29 "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God".

An OTHER, both JEW (Saul) and GENTILE (Paul) by Descent, was Appointed by Jesus, to Minister and Teach (primarily) Gentiles;
ABOUT God, ABOUT the Son of God, ABOUT the KNOWLEDGE of MYSTERIES, previously UNKNOWN to the Children of Israel.

ONE of those TEACHINGS, was ABOUT, Circumcision.
Hebrews/Jews KNEW of the Foreskin Circumcision....
Paul was REVEALING: TO GENTILES (and any listening Jews);
Foreskin circumcision does not MAKE A MAN a JEW, nor DOES Foreskin circumcision MAKE ANY MAN SAVED.
It is the ACT OF GOD, sealing the Relationship between A MAN and THEE Lord God, by and through CHRIST JESUS, with a Spiritual Circumcision of THe HEART.

men was circumcised and holding God feasts before Israel was even a nation. so the Jews have nothing on no one. or anyone else, vice versa.

Well aware of what "MEN" were doing, and "WHO" those "MEN" were.

The WHOLE THEME of Scripture from the Beginning of Man-KIND of thing...
IS ABOUT:
Man being created "very good".
Man falling away from his "very good" status.
Men being "DIVIDED", BY GOD, regarding:
A RECONCILED MAN, unto GOD...
AND
An UNRECONCILED MAN, without God.

If you are a GENTILE, ya, the Jews do have "something on you"... A LONG HISTORY OF THEIR ANCESTORS "CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD".

It is JEWS, along with the Others of the TWELVE Tribes of Israel, whose NAMES shall be IN Stone IN Christ the Lords KINGDOM.

Rev 21
[12] And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:


Gentiles BECOME INCLUDED, by Becoming ADOPTED BY Abraham, by and through Promise, and ACCEPTANCE of Christ Jesus, by and through the Grace of God, and the individual mans AGREEMENT to Call on the Name of the Lord, in a True Confession of Belief, which inturn EFFECTS the Power of God to Transform the man and SEAL the man forever unto Thee Lord God Almighty.

Without the Steadfast Faithfulness of Particular Hebrews, particular Jews...
Gentiles (like many ARE), would still be wandering through their natural life worshiping statutes as their god.

IF you ARE a Gentile, and have called on the Lords Name in Belief and Become Converted...Good for you. You are accounted among the FEW Gentiles who have accomplished having a Relationship with Thee Lord God and SEAL of God upon you.

The Children of Israel are NOT Forgotten:
THEY (like EVERY MAN), have Consequences to endure, decisions to make, TO SUBMIT and Become Spiritually "Divided" and Transformed BY, Through, IN, WITH "the WHOLE Word of God" or Forever become "Separated" from Thee Lord God Almighty.

The Flood was a TIME of "Separating" the "Divided".

The end of days that we know, shall be a TIME of Tribulation, completing the "DIVISION"
And
The GREAT Tribulation, completing the "SEPARATION", as foretold for "those days".


Glory to God,
Taken
 
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