The Issue of Calvinism.

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Mjh29

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So you are saying that the rest of scriptutre changes Romans 10:9-13 so that it actually reads:



instead of:

No. You said that and then are trying to push your interpretation upon us, brother. What I am saying is read the KJV. AND THEN GO THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES AND SEE WHAT THEY SAY.

For example: "For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead"

Then, we see what the Bible has to say about things mentioned, such as:

~ The Heart:
Genesis 6:5
Genesis 8:21
Ecclesiastes 9:3
Jeremiah 17:9
Mark 7:21-23
Romans 8:7-8 [even explained in the same BOOK]
1 Corinthians 2:14 [is Romans 10 a warrant to ignore this passage?]
Ephesians 4:17-19

~ Believing [Having Faith]
2 Corinthians 3:5
Romans 11:35-36 [Again, same book]
John 6:44
Matthew 7:16-18
Romans 5:10 [same book]
2 Corinthians 5:18-19
Colossians 1:21-22

Then we can look at this passage and have a BIBLICAL [not human-minded] understanding of what it is trying to say.
 
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SovereignGrace

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What you are saying by that is that whosoever is saved will call upon the name of the Lord. It is the opposite order than what is presented in scripture.
You see salvation as working outside to inside. It’s really inside to outside. The lost person is inwardly dead, physically alive. All they have to act with is their flesh, and it profits nothing in regards to salvation.[John 6:63] Unless God works in the heart first, all they have is their flesh, which rejects God, hates Him, is hostile towards Him, is at enmity(an ill-will) with God.
 
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justbyfaith

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No. You said that and then are trying to push your interpretation upon us, brother. What I am saying is read the KJV. AND THEN GO THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES AND SEE WHAT THEY SAY.
So you are saying read the kjv, but don't trust what it says in specific places until I have reinterpreted what it says in those places by a bunch of other verses.
 

Mjh29

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So you are saying read the kjv, but don't trust what it says in specific places until I have reinterpreted what it says in those places by a bunch of other verses.

Yeah. That is what it means to study the Scriptures and not a Scripture [singular], Brother.

2 Timothy 3:16
1 Corinthians 2:13
 

SovereignGrace

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Everybody who ever lived was lost at one point.
If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.[John 15:19]

The Christ did not choose them out of everyone whoever lived, but out from the lost.

“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.”[John 17:6]

Here we see ppl who the Father gave to the Christ from out of the world. Again, meaning the lost.
 
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SovereignGrace

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So you are saying read the kjv, but don't trust what it says in specific places until I have reinterpreted what it says in those places by a bunch of other verses.
I wouldn’t say don’t trust it, but see how it harmonizes in every other place in the Bible.
 
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justbyfaith

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You see salvation as working outside to inside. It’s really inside to outside. The lost person is inwardly dead, physically alive. All they have to act with is their flesh, and it profits nothing in regards to salvation.[John 6:63] Unless God works in the heart first, all they have is their flesh, which rejects God, hates Him, is hostile towards Him, is at enmity(an ill-will) with God.
Opening the door to Christ is the key to being saved.

If it originates from the inside, then you are beginning with unsaved material and calling it saved for no apparent reason.

The way to salvation is to receive the love of the Lord into your heart. One does not have to be virtuous on the inside in order to do this. Faith is a choice that a person makes; and yes, a person can make it for reasons other than virtuous reasons. However, the Lord honours faith when He sees it because He has ordained that faith will save. A man may put their faith in Christ for entirely selfish reasons, i.e. they don't want to go to hell, or, they want the joy that they see in others. God does not reject them for that their offering does not begin with complete purity. He purifies the offering and sanctifies it: He makes it holy when it touches the altar that has been seven times purified by the blood.
 

Mjh29

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I wouldn’t say don’t trust it, but see how it harmonizes in every other place in the Bible.
This is much better phrasing, thanks brother. What I meant was don't trust YOURSELF and YOUR interpretation until you have compared it with other
Scriptures.
 
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justbyfaith

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If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.[John 15:19]

The Christ did not choose them out of everyone whoever lived, but out from the lost.

“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.”[John 17:6]

Here we see ppl who the Father gave to the Christ from out of the world. Again, meaning the lost.
Everybody who ever lived was lost at one point.
 

SovereignGrace

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Opening the door to Christ is the key to being saved.

If it originates from the inside, then you are beginning with unsaved material and calling it saved for no apparent reason.

The way to salvation is to receive the love of the Lord into your heart. One does not have to be virtuous on the inside in order to do this. Faith is a choice that a person makes; and ye, a person can make it for reasons other than virtuous reasons. However, the Lord honours faith when he sees it because He has ordained that faith will save. A man may put their faith in Christ for entirely selfish reasons, i.e. they don't want to go to hell, or, they want the joy that they see in others. God does not reject them for that their offering does not begin with purity. He purifies the offering and sanctifies it: He makes it holy when it touches the altar that has been seven times purified by the blood.
Faith is a gift, not a choice my friend. Nowhere is the Bible is faith misconstrued as a choice.

Yes we receive the Lord. But how do we receive Him? This is one of the most misapplied passages in the whole bible...

He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.[John 1:11-13]

Vs 12 said those who received Him, He gave them the right to become children of God. Now, who were the ones who believed in and received Him?

Was it those who were born of blood? No.

How about the will of the flesh? No. The flesh profits nothing.[John 6:63]

Or the will of the flesh? No.

Those born of God? Yahtzee!

This passage couldn’t be any clearer if John tried to make it clearer.
 
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justbyfaith

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This is much better phrasing, thanks brother. What I meant was don't trust YOURSELF and YOUR interpretation until you have compared it with other
Scriptures.
The apostles used great plainness of speech.

2Co 3:12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

Now, you may want to interpret that by some other scripture so that it means something entirely different than what it says.

But the scripture itself tells you that you cannot do it that way. I would point out that it is also written:

2Pe 1:20, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Now, we can indeed receive teaching and added insight by comparing spiritual thing with spiritual; however, the new interpretation will never nullify the original interpretation, i.e. what the scripture says by itself as it stands on its own.
 

justbyfaith

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We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

The only thing I can think of is that you are not equating grace with salvation (when the bible clearly does so in Ephesians 2:8-9); or that you are simply ignoring the plain meaning of Romans 5:2.
 

Mjh29

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The apostles used great plainness of speech.

2Co 3:12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

Now, you may want to interpret that by some other scripture so that it means something entirely different than what it says.

But the scripture itself tells you that you cannot do it that way. I would point out that it is also written:

2Pe 1:20, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Now, we can indeed receive teaching and added insight by comparing spiritual thing with spiritual; however, the new interpretation will never nullify the original interpretation, i.e. what the scripture says by itself as it stands on its own.

Brother, you just contradicted yourself. 2 Peter 1:20. Taking a verse on its own is the very definition of a private interpretation.
2 Corinthians 3:13-18

We clearly see he is talking about speaking plainly of Jesus. The rest of the verse clarifies this.

Yeah. That is what it means to study the Scriptures and not a Scripture [singular], Brother.

2 Timothy 3:16
1 Corinthians 2:13

2 Timothy 3:16 clearly shows that all Scripture [as a whole, not each individual Scripture] is profitable for Doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction.
 
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SovereignGrace

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We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

The only thing I can think of is that you are not equating grace with salvation (when the bible clearly does so in Ephesians 2:8-9); or that you are simply ignoring the plain meaning of Romans 5:2.
No grace = no salvation. Romans 5:2 is written to believers, not mankind en toto.
 
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