Calvinism is a Cult

OzSpen · Mar 21, 2019

Preacher4Truth said:
That's untrue. I addressed your question and gave Scriptural rebuttal and further understanding. But you dismiss Scriptural responses as "Calvinism" so you can have a cop out.

Everyone can see that.

Bottom line is now you're bearing false witness. That's shameful, but hey, that's you.

You've not dealt with any text given you and you know it.

But carry on, all can see the truth of the matter here.

Preacher4Truth · Mar 21, 2019

OzSpen said:
I would not designate Calvinism as a cult but a Christian group that promotes false teaching in its doctrine of salvation

First, you don't understand Calvinism, and as a self-proclaimed decades-long student, you don't have answers and avoid texts.

Secondly, it is your doctrine of salvation that is errant. You teach man's work saves him. You will not look at texts that give God all the glory in salvation. You have a huge aversion to glorifying God, but no aversion to glorifying you.

That makes you your own god.

Bottom line? Your responses are your gospel: you attempt to glorify man and his ability to save himself by what he does, which is a clear denial of the Gospel of Scripture. Then you refuse to give God glory in Scriptures provided.

Then? On top of all of this, you reply on here with false accusations that your posts weren't addressed.

That's called bearing false witness. I clearly addressed your question on the jailer and gave a thorough biblical response. You and others will deceive yourselves and agree with one another that I did not do so. But that's the fruit of your tribe.

I've always been perplexed as to why anti-Calvinist free willers who choose themselves into eternal life by their own abilities lie so much. But, it's a mystery. Certainly Revelation has something to say about those who lie and love to lie. Right?

Preacher4Truth · Mar 21, 2019

OzSpen said:
...

My pleasure. Tuck tail and ride off into the darkness.

OzSpen · Mar 21, 2019

Ezra said:
see it is very Biblical.. he does not force him self on us..he draws us through conviction .but it is not of force and yes saved by grace but grace does not handcuff you

Ezra,

Which people are drawn?

According to John 12:32 (NIV), Jesus said: ' And I, when I am lifted up [meaning exalted] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.’

Oz

OzSpen · Mar 21, 2019

Vince said:
No where in the bible does it say babies go to heaven through the cross. Or am I missing that doctrine.

Vince,

You are correct.

It doesn't say that, but 'Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." (Matt 19:14 NIV).

Oz

OzSpen · Mar 21, 2019

Preacher4Truth said:
My pleasure. Tuck tail and ride off into the darkness.

When will you learn to communicate with people instead of dumping your presuppositions and Calvinistic interpretations on us?

Could you do that with gentleness and care?

OzSpen · Mar 21, 2019

SovereignGrace said:
Bruh, you’re bucking the wrong bronc here. He backs his claims up with TONS of scripture.

The JWs present stacks of Scriptures to support their views. "TONS of Scripture" is not what is needed here.

We need accurate, textual, exegetical, cultural and historical hermeneutics (interpretation).

Dumping texts on us does not achieve that.

CoreIssue · Mar 21, 2019

OzSpen said:
I agree. I've studied Calvinism for decades - yes decades - and that is why I'm not a Calvinist.

I would not designate Calvinism as a cult but a Christian group that promotes false teaching in its doctrine of salvation.

There are many Calvinistic teachings with which I agree. For example, I'm convinced the T and P of TULIP are biblical, but not ULI.

There are many outstanding expositions of the doctrine of God in their writings, e.g. Wayne Grudem's, Systematic Theology. However, I find Norman Geisler's 4 vols on Systematic Theology to be more balanced biblically.

Many of them are amillennial in their eschatology. I'm not convinced.

Oz

I and many others have a different God which makes them a cult.

Amillennialism violates the Bible in so many ways. They reject the Bible is literal.

Ezra · Mar 21, 2019

OzSpen said:
Which people are drawn?

the ones the Holy spirit is dealing with through conviction . to be honest Calvinism is boring to discuss

SovereignGrace · Mar 22, 2019

Preacher4Truth said:
First, you don't understand Calvinism, and as a self-proclaimed decades-long student, you don't have answers and avoid texts.

Secondly, it is your doctrine of salvation that is errant. You teach man's work saves him. You will not look at texts that give God all the glory in salvation. You have a huge aversion to glorifying God, but no aversion to glorifying you.

That makes you your own god.

Bottom line? Your responses are your gospel: you attempt to glorify man and his ability to save himself by what he does, which is a clear denial of the Gospel of Scripture. Then you refuse to give God glory in Scriptures provided.

Then? On top of all of this, you reply on here with false accusations that your posts weren't addressed.

That's called bearing false witness. I clearly addressed your question on the jailer and gave a thorough biblical response. You and others will deceive yourselves and agree with one another that I did not do so. But that's the fruit of your tribe.

I've always been perplexed as to why anti-Calvinist free willers who choose themselves into eternal life by their own abilities lie so much. But, it's a mystery. Certainly Revelation has something to say about those who lie and love to lie. Right?

In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.[James 1:18] A clear verse that describes man's free will.

How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You To dwell in Your courts. We will be satisfied with the goodness of Your house, Your holy temple.[Psalms 65:4] Another clear proof man's free will at work.

So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.[Romans 9:16] Surely man's free will in full display.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,[Ephesians 2:4-6] Here is another crystal clear example of man's will being free Bruh.

#Getwifftheprogram

Vince · Mar 22, 2019

Stranger said:
"Christian Formation and Christian Apologetics"

You can use it to recruit all the atheists you can. Doesn't bother me. So keep up with your whining and I will continue to point it out.

Too bad, you're an enemy of God. I am no friends with an enemy of God. Your consideration of who is Christian weighs about as much as a snowflake.

Stranger

I was just comparing what the bible says against what you have posted here. It does not line up. Objective truth is truth no matter the source.

Vince · Mar 22, 2019

CoreIssue said:
The problem With what you say is that it is a Christian apologetics forum. Not an atheist apologetics.

Per the rules of this board I am able to post in this forum. I cannot post in the ones that say for Christians only, I can post in the other ones. Just go and ask a moderator. You guys are just wrong.

You're not here to defend Christianity, you're here to attack it.

I know you think that any common sense questions about your beliefs are considered an attack. You question Calvinistic beliefs but no one can question yours?

Vince · Mar 22, 2019

OzSpen said:
Vince,

You are correct.

It doesn't say that, but 'Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." (Matt 19:14 NIV).

Oz

This verse says nothing as to how they are saved.

Stranger · Mar 22, 2019

Vince said:
I was just comparing what the bible says against what you have posted here. It does not line up. Objective truth is truth no matter the source.

Your use of the Bible as I showed didn't work. Your opinion of the Christian, me or any other, is of no value. Your assesment as I said weighs about as much as a snowflake.

You need to post where you belong. Not here in a Christian section. You have nothing to offer.

Stranger

Vince · Mar 22, 2019

Stranger said:
Your use of the Bible as I showed didn't work. Your opinion of the Christian, me or any other, is of no value. Your assesment as I said weighs about as much as a snowflake.

You need to post where you belong. Not here in a Christian section. You have nothing to offer.

Stranger

You never showed my use of the bible doesn't work. You never addressed my points and I am posting where I am allowed per the forum rules. You are just plain ignorant of the rules if you think otherwise.

Too bad, you're an enemy of God. I am no friends with an enemy of God. ~ Stranger

But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies,... ~ Jesus

You are not a disciple of Christ and I have no love for you. Does that upset you? Doesn't me. ~ Stranger

I wonder if it upsets Jesus.

Here is the entire passage in context:

But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.
“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. ~ Jesus (Luke 6:27-36, ESV)

I don't see any of this from you, all you do is condemn and hate your enemies. Why don't you follow your gods commands?

Stranger · Mar 22, 2019

Vince said:
You never showed my use of the bible doesn't work. You never addressed my points and I am posting where I am allowed per the forum rules. You are just plain ignorant of the rules if you think otherwise.

Too bad, you're an enemy of God. I am no friends with an enemy of God. ~ Stranger

But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies,... ~ Jesus

You are not a disciple of Christ and I have no love for you. Does that upset you? Doesn't me. ~ Stranger

I wonder if it upsets Jesus.

Here is the entire passage in context:

But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.
“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. ~ Jesus (Luke 6:27-36, ESV)

I don't see any of this from you, all you do is condemn and hate your enemies. Why don't you follow your gods commands?

Sure did. See post #(2183) It didn't work then and it doesn't work now.

'Christian formation and Christian Apologetics' You're not interested in the topic. You're only interested in bashing Christ and Christianity. You need to go below where you belong.

You're not listening. You are not just my enemy. You are an enemy of God. I have no love for any enemy of God. You are of the world. We are not to love the world. And no, that doesn't upset Jesus whom you reject. Foolish statement.

Your use of the Sermon on the Mount doesn't work. This is not the law for the Christian. This is the law for the Kingdom age when Christ sets up the kingdom. Christ will be present here at that time. We are not under the law of the Sermon on the Mount. That is a future day. Just like we are not under the law of Moses. That is in the past.

Of course you don't see any of this from me. As I said, I have no love for you. You are of the world and in opposition to Christ and the Gospel. You are an enemy of God. You need to go back to that hole you crawled out of.

Stranger

Vince · Mar 22, 2019

Stranger said:
Your use of the Sermon on the Mount doesn't work. This is not the law for the Christian. This is the law for the Kingdom age when Christ sets up the kingdom. Christ will be present here at that time. We are not under the law of the Sermon on the Mount. That is a future day. Just like we are not under the law of Moses. That is in the past.

So basically you can do whatever you want and god is pleased? That is a great interpretation of the bible, not many Christians I know would agree with you. It allows you to continue with your hate doesn't it. What does god expect from you and how do you know this?

You need to go back to that hole you crawled out of.

Nice Christian response. Pretty typical these days, you say I am of the world but you fit in very nicely, cannot tell you are any different than us non believers.

Stranger · Mar 22, 2019

Vince said:
So basically you can do whatever you want and god is pleased? That is a great interpretation of the bible, not many Christians I know would agree with you. It allows you to continue with your hate doesn't it. What does god expect from you and how do you know this?

Nice Christian response. Pretty typical these days, you say I am of the world but you fit in very nicely, cannot tell you are any different than us non believers.

No, didn't say that. That's you're interpretation. But you don't believe any of the Bible anyway. So, big deal?

I don't mind hating the things God hates. Neither does God.

Sorry, what God expects of me and how I know, is not understandable by you. You are just shifting back to your desire for proof. If I give you Scripture, you just say that proves nothing. Yet, the hypocrite you are, you want to use Scripture.

Thanks, I thought so. Oh, I think you can see a big difference between me and you.

Stranger

Vince · Mar 22, 2019

Stranger said:
No, didn't say that. That's you're interpretation. But you don't believe any of the Bible anyway. So, big deal?

I don't mind hating the things God hates. Neither does God.

Sorry, what God expects of me and how I know, is not understandable by you. You are just shifting back to your desire for proof. If I give you Scripture, you just say that proves nothing. Yet, the hypocrite you are, you want to use Scripture.

No, You claim to follow god, I am just using your standard that you use to show you that you don't follow it or probably believe it.

Thanks, I thought so. Oh, I think you can see a big difference between me and you.

Stranger

What is that difference?

Stranger · Mar 22, 2019

Vince said:
No, You claim to follow god, I am just using your standard that you use to show you that you don't follow it or probably believe it.

What is that difference?

So? You claimed to have followed God and then said no. Apparently your understanding of following God is not to good...is it? So, no, you are using your standard. Which doesn't amount to a pile of....beans.

Oh, I believe all of the Bible. Every Word of it. Do you? No. But you want to pretend you know about the standard of God. How foolish.

The difference doesn't matter because I do believe it and follow God.

Stranger

Calvinism is a Cult

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