The Issue of Calvinism.
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The point being, that we neither have to love him, nor hate him, nor hold to him, nor despise him; because while Jesus is our Master, it is not necessarily true that we have two masters so that the devil would be a master in our lives: and because satan is not our master, we can love him as our enemy as Jesus said this is the key to our victory over him. In feeding our enemy when he is hungry and giving him drink when he is thirsty, we shall heap burning coals upon his head; and if he continues to fight against us after that we need not take vengeance for the Lord has said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay."
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
OzSpen,
[According to your theology, all people cannot repent]]
You do not understand my theology. All men are commanded to repent.Acts17:
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
[because all people are not unconditionally elected to believe.]
It is sin that keeps people from repenting, they love sin.
Unconditional election is true and necessary because of spiritual death.
[So, it's whistling in the wind to 'command all men/people to repent and believe' when ALL are not invited to do that.]
Every time the gospel is preached properly men are commanded to repent and believe. Your statement is without foundation.
[According to your theology, all people cannot repent]]
You do not understand my theology. All men are commanded to repent.Acts17:
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
[because all people are not unconditionally elected to believe.]
It is sin that keeps people from repenting, they love sin.
Unconditional election is true and necessary because of spiritual death.
[So, it's whistling in the wind to 'command all men/people to repent and believe' when ALL are not invited to do that.]
Every time the gospel is preached properly men are commanded to repent and believe. Your statement is without foundation.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
You can throw in a bible verse and try to say that it fits your theology; but it is clear to anyone with eyes to see that your theology is contradicted by the verse.
When your theology is looked at as a whole, it becomes clear that Acts 17:30-31 does not fit into what you believe in; you are merely giving lip service to the reality of the verse. BE HONEST.
It is not easy for people to give up their cherished ideas, no matter how false. On the other hand, the whole point of being a Christian is to love the truth.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Men are responsible for their sin, that is the honest truth. A sermon presented properly with an Adam who died in the fall, {he was not just slightly wounded} leaves man with no hope outside of Christ, who saves sinners.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
You have not answered one post directly addressed to you, 400 posts later, you have not made your point or answered dozens of posts. Yet you will not own up to it.
Yes I have, and you can check them out for yourself. And some posts need no response, while others get detailed scriptural responses.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
God commanded Israel to keep His Law. Those who didn't, paid for it. He knew they couldn't, yet kept their feet to the fire.
The Christ told the adulterous women in John 8, "Go and sin no more." Now, no doubt she sinned after this, as none can reach sinlessness in this fleshly body, but He commanded her to "Go and sin no more."
We are commanded to "Be ye holy, even as I am holy." Hey, He commanded us to be as holy as He is, so I guess we are every bit as holy as He is, right? Right?
Thank you, that actually speaks to me.
I will add my reason for believing you,
Isa 22:12, And in that day did the Lord GOD of hosts call to weeping, and to mourning, and to baldness, and to girding with sackcloth:
Isa 22:13, And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.
Isa 22:14, And it was revealed in mine ears by the LORD of hosts, Surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you till ye die, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.
But then, I wonder how the following applies:
Heb 1:3, Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 10:1, For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2, For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:4, For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:11, And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
1Jo 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Tit 2:14, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Heb 1:3, Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 10:1, For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2, For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:4, For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:11, And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
1Jo 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Tit 2:14, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
On another note, this is God's call to the church today:
Joe 2:1, Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Joe 2:2, A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, evento the years of many generations.
Joe 2:3, A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
Joe 2:4, The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
Joe 2:5, Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
Joe 2:6, Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
Joe 2:7, They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
Joe 2:8, Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
Joe 2:9, They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
Joe 2:10, The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Joe 2:11, And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Joe 2:12, Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
Joe 2:13, And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
Joe 2:14, Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Joe 2:15, Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:
Joe 2:16, Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.
Joe 2:17, Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?
Joe 2:18, Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.
Joe 2:19, Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
Joe 2:1, Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Joe 2:2, A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, evento the years of many generations.
Joe 2:3, A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
Joe 2:4, The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
Joe 2:5, Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
Joe 2:6, Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
Joe 2:7, They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
Joe 2:8, Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
Joe 2:9, They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
Joe 2:10, The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Joe 2:11, And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Joe 2:12, Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
Joe 2:13, And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
Joe 2:14, Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Joe 2:15, Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:
Joe 2:16, Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.
Joe 2:17, Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?
Joe 2:18, Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.
Joe 2:19, Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
Hebrews 1:3 is written to believers who have had their sins purged. Our sins is referring to believers, not unbelievers. Unbelievers die lost because their sins were not purged.
In Hebrews 10, the writer is expressing the supremacy of the Christ's sacrifice over the OT sacrificial system. Under the Law, there was a remembrance of their sins[Hebrews 10:3]. The blood of animals(bulls and goats) could not do away with sin[Hebrews 10:4]...only the shed blood of the Christ can do this. This chapter speaks to the fact He did away with the first and established the second. It's not that He abolished the Law, but He did away with the sacrificial system contained under the Law.
The high priest under the Law typified the Christ. Now, who did this high priest intercede for? All mankind? Or the children of God, the Jews? The Jews. The Jebusites, Hivites, Hittites, Moabites, Assyrians, Syrians, Philistines, Egyptians, Jerichoites, et al, never had a sacrificial system or a high priest to intercede on their behalf. God had (justly) left them in their already condemned state.
Look at the Levitical scapegoat in Leviticus 16. This is the doctrine of expiation at its finest. The goat, after Aaron had confessed the sins and iniquities of Israel upon this goat, it was led into the wilderness, never to return. Now, Aaron did not confess the sins of the aforementioned ppl(the enemies of God) and that goat took their sins into the wilderness. This was solely done for the ppl of God.
1 John 3:5 is addressed to believers, not all mankind. To take away OUR sins. Who is the 'OUR'? The believers.
Titus 2:14 is written to believers, too. Notice, those who have been redeemed are purified and are a peculiar ppl. Sound familiar?[1 Peter 2:9]
If I may be so bold, I would like to point out there are two occurrences of "the whole world" in the book of 1 John.
First occurrence:
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world.
(1 John 2:2)
Second occurrence:
We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in [the power of] the evil one.
(1 John 5:19)
Because of this, what Preacher4Truth wrote, "from a historical and cultural interpretation it, 'the whole world' means all other nations, tongues, tribes &c other than just the Jews" is truth, and I would add "as well as a Biblical understanding" to the "from a historical and cultural interpretation it" since believers in the Lord Jesus Christ do not lie in the evil one; therefore, the whole world can not be every person. What Preacher4Truth wrote fits both 1 John 2:2 and 1 John 5:19.
We are not of the world, neither is Jesus. Salvation was only of the Jews until God fulfilled the promise to Abraham that all nations (gentiles) would be blessed in him. World = sin in many cases. Whole world also = not just Jews but gentiles too.
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