Speaking in Tongues a Cessationist View

Dave L · Mar 22, 2019

CoreIssue said:
That is not true.

But some get so excited they babble and think it's real.

I went to one church and when they started I knew what was coming.

I knew somebody was going to stand up and start babbling. Then I knew she was going to collapse, slain in the spirit, which is completely nonbiblical. She did.

I believe tongues are given at need, but rarely.

The much more valuable gifts are prophecy, not meaning telling the future, and discernment of spirits, not meaning being a lie detector. But they are also gifts one cannot turn on and off at will.

Tongues only came through the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. Scripture mentenionsno other way.

“And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:18)

“For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)

farouk · Mar 22, 2019

Dave L said:
Tongues only came through the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. Scripture mentenionsno other way.

“And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:18)

“For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)

I don't understand the desire for tongues now; to me it puts into question the person's attitude to God's Word.

Dave L · Mar 22, 2019

farouk said:
I don't understand the desire for tongues now; to me it puts into question the person's attitude to God's Word.

While in Pentecost, I experienced exhilaration through speaking in tongues that I assumed was the Holy Spirit. And the church services were alive with praise and enthusiasm. But too many question kept popping up that suggested the experience was more adrenaline than a move of the Spirit. Why do we learn how to speak in tongues when it was always unexpected and spontaneous in Acts? Why just a few sects and not the whole church when Christ purchased all? Should I have this feeling of superiority over main line Christians and consider them unenlightened? Should the pastor be ridiculing them nearly every service for not being as spiritual as we are? And so on.

farouk · Mar 22, 2019

Dave L said:
While in Pentecost, I experienced exhilaration through speaking in tongues that I assumed was the Holy Spirit. And the church services were alive with praise and enthusiasm. But too many question kept popping up that suggested the experience was more adrenaline than a move of the Spirit. Why do we learn how to speak in tongues when it was always unexpected and spontaneous in Acts? Why just a few sects and not the whole church when Christ purchased all? Should I have this feeling of superiority over main line Christians and consider them unenlightened? Should the pastor be ridiculing them nearly ever service for not being as spiritual as we are? And so on.

A lot of ppl assume the activity of the Holy Spirit when in fact He is not there. Best to get back to the Word.

CoreIssue · Mar 22, 2019

Dave L said:
Tongues only came through the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. Scripture mentenionsno other way.

“And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:18)

“For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)

Again with your negative proof.

Neither does it eliminate any other way.

amadeus · Mar 22, 2019

Dave L said:
I used to think as you do. Having spoken in what I believed to be tongues for quite some time. But after studying to answer the questions dogging me, I came to believe today's tongues are of the flesh. And they stimulate the senses just as other vocal emotional releases do. People get a buzz doing this and think it is the Holy Spirit. But it is nothing like the originals.

Again I believe you are wrong for making this a rule. Certainly sometimes people are following their own flesh... but not always. You say it is nothing like the originals but since you were not there and have never experienced the "originals" how could you know what they are? You presume that everyone else had only the "buzz" of your own experience. I don't get a buzz. I talk to God. At the first it was a babble, but the babble became a language...

Give God the glory!

amadeus · Mar 22, 2019

farouk said:
I don't understand the desire for tongues now; to me it puts into question the person's attitude to God's Word.

"Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way." I Cor 12:30-31

So then covet earnestly the best gifts as it is written, but this does not mean we are to misuse or cast aside what we already have nor should we ever stand in judgment against another as we could know that person's heart as God knows it!

CoreIssue · Mar 22, 2019

amadeus said:
"Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way." I Cor 12:30-31

So then covet earnestly the best gifts as it is written, but this does not mean we are to misuse or cast aside what we already have nor should we ever stand in judgment against another as we could know that person's heart as God knows it!

As was said before I believe tonques are still given. But not in the way And quality many claim today.

Tongues quickly faded being mentioned in the New Testament. In the later letters not mentioned at all.

Paul said tongues were the least of the gifts and is listed last first Timothy.

The only times I've heard testimony of legitimate tongues was by missionary entering places where English etc. were unknown.

amadeus · Mar 22, 2019

CoreIssue said:
As was said before I believe tonques are still given. But not in the way And quality many claim today.

Tongues quickly faded being mentioned in the New Testament. In the later letters not mentioned at all.

Paul said tongues were the least of the gifts and is listed last first Timothy.

The only times I've heard testimony of legitimate tongues was by missionary entering places where English etc. were unknown.

"But seek ye first [1] the kingdom of God, and [2] his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

If we seek these two things first then God will add what God will add. His choice it should always be. Not ours! No one should presume with God. We need to learn to always surrender to God and leave it in His capable hands. If He gives us a gift of tongues, then say, thank you. If He gives us something else instead also say, thank you!

Praise the Lord!

CoreIssue · Mar 22, 2019

amadeus said:
"But seek ye first [1] the kingdom of God, and [2] his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

If we seek these two things first then God will add what God will add. His choice it should always be. Not ours! No one should presume with God. We need to learn to always surrender to God and leave it in His capable hands. If He gives us a gift of tongues, then say, thank you. If He gives us something else instead also say, thank you!

Praise the Lord!

Agree.

It is made quite clear everyone receives at least one gift but not everyone gets any single, including tongues.

I have more than one gift but tongues is not one of them.

amadeus · Mar 22, 2019

CoreIssue said:
Agree.

It is made quite clear everyone receives at least one gift but not everyone gets any single, including tongues.

I have more than one gift but tongues is not one of them.

I also have more than one gift and tongues IS one of them. Is it the best one? Probably not, but who am I to judge?

Jeff Wiebe · Mar 22, 2019

amadeus said:
"But seek ye first [1] the kingdom of God, and [2] his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

If we seek these two things first then God will add what God will add. His choice it should always be. Not ours! No one should presume with God. We need to learn to always surrender to God and leave it in His capable hands. If He gives us a gift of tongues, then say, thank you. If He gives us something else instead also say, thank you!

Praise the Lord!

But what is the Gift of tongues? The understanding I get from scripture is its the ability for others to understand when there is a language barrier. God gives understanding. That's what happened at Pentecost so that is the gift. Communication and understanding to benefit the one who needs the Gospel. The ability to speak languages is another gift of tongues/language or part of the same gift, but its to benefit the unbeliever. Anything else is of the flesh from misunderstanding. I don't get any evidence of it being a divine prayer language from scripture. I am very weary of anything else being from God. satan is a master of deception and has had over 6000 years to perfect it. What I see going on now days I think is demonic. I pray I never get what I see going on now days in the Charismatic movement.

amadeus · Mar 22, 2019

Jeff Wiebe said:
But what is the Gift of tongues? The understanding I get from scripture is its the ability for others to understand when there is a language barrier. God gives understanding. That's what happened at Pentecost so that is the gift. Communication and understanding to benefit the one who needs the Gospel. The ability to speak languages is another gift of tongues/language or part of the same gift, but its to benefit the unbeliever. Anything else is of the flesh from misunderstanding. I don't get any evidence of it being a divine prayer language from scripture. I am very weary of anything else being from God. satan is a master of deception and has had over 6000 years to perfect it. What I see going on now days I think is demonic. I pray I never get what I see going on now days in the Charismatic movement.

I am not a master of anything, but I do know God. I cannot convince you of the gift He gave to me. If you believe it that is good, but if you do not, I can only refer to the writings of the Apostle Paul:

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:6-7

I understand a fair amount about human languages as I studied both Spanish and German as a young man and continue to read my Bible regularly in both those languages as well as English... but what I speak with God is more personal than that. I won't go deeply into my own beliefs with a skeptic now, but I will refer you to this verse:

"To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:" I Cor 12:10

Others will undoubtedly disagree, but for the me the "divers kinds of tongues" means more than one kind of gift. I have identified no less than three in scripture. I have only received one of them. My wife received a different one.

Give God the glory!

Jeff Wiebe · Mar 22, 2019

Diverse tongues is the ability to speak more than one language. Maybe I have a gift of discerning spirits.

amadeus · Mar 22, 2019

Jeff Wiebe said:
Diverse tongues is the ability to speak more than one language. Maybe I have a gift of discerning spirits.

It means that, but I believe it means more than that!

Jeff Wiebe · Mar 22, 2019

I believe what the Bible says, If it means more, then it should tell us that. It doesn't.

amadeus · Mar 22, 2019

Jeff Wiebe said:
I believe what the Bible says, If it means more, then it should tell us that. It doesn't.

Well it does say more... to me anyway. Perhaps one day it will to you as well. But in any case God is the one who gives any real increase.

Jeff Wiebe · Mar 22, 2019

Be weary of seducing spirits. If I don't know what I'm saying I'd be very careful that I'm sure I know who I'm talking to or who is taking over my speech.

1 John 4:1
[ Testing the Spirits ] Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Jay Ross · Mar 23, 2019

Because we want to be so like God and to have His gifts in us, we will grasp at anyone who tells us that they can give us these gifts.

I can remember, a number of years ago, when I use to manifest the Holy spirit, that people would rush up to me to touch me so that they too could get a "touch from the Lord." They wanted a touch from the lord to confirm that they too were part of his flock because they had received spiritual gifts.

I have also known people who have travelled the world looking to receive gifts of the spirit from other dynamic people who they had heard were praying for people to receive this gift. My experience is that God will give the gifts of the Spirit to whom He choses and that we should not be disappointed if we do not have them at any particular point during our walk with God.

I was at a conference where gifts of the spirits were the main theme of the conference and special "gifted/practiced" speakers had been flown in from the USA.

Before the start of each day there was a small group of people who would gather to pray for the activates for that day and a group of young people would come in and begin to sing and dance until the went into a trance and speak in "tongues" and the other people at the prayer time were ecstatic that these young people were able to go into a trance and sound like and act like people with disabilities. until the trance was broken once more.

On the last day of the conference I got their before many others and simply lay face down on the floor of the room where the pray group was meeting and began to cry in the presence of the Lord, oblivious to anyone else in the room. That morning, the group of young people were not able to go into their usual trance like display of spiritual activity.

When I got to get up from the floor I realised that a woman was kneeing besides me and praying. Probably because I was sobbing in the Lord, with the mistaken belief that I needed someone to pray over me. I never asked her but, fortunately I had someone in the room whom I trusted to protect my back.

On another occasion I was attending a "skilling" session, because my wife wanted to attend, on the gifts of the spirits and as a small group practice session we were to sit in a circle to pray for one of the people in the group. During the first five minutes I was siting opposite this person and was not sensing anything about this person. We where then told to move and I had to sit next to this person and immediately I began to sob. I was sobbing over this person's needs. Unfortunately, because I was crying, the group facilitator turned the groups attention towards me believing that I was the one in need of prayer.

Sometimes when people have the gifts of the spirit, they need to keep their gifts quite and guard their manifestations of these gifts, because people will misread the circumstances of what is happening and the moment will pass or get squashed. I do not always get told what the other persons needs are, but I am able to assure the people that the Lord is very aware of their needs and that He loves them so much that He had me express His tears for them for what is or will occur in their lives. My tears help the people to press further into God for whatever is happening or going to happen in their lives. I like it like that because if I do not need to know what their needs or problems are, but can only assure them that the Lord is working in their lives for His Glory to be manifested in theirs.

What gifts we have is up to the Lord, I do not speak in tongues, but I do manifest often when the Lord prompts me, but sadly I have seen people abuse God's gifts of the spirit because of the needs in their own lives.

One of the best gifts of the spirit is simply, wisdom in the Lord, such that we are able to walk peacefully with the Lord all the days of our lives.

It is a gift that we can pray for that God will gladly give.

Shalom

Waiting on him · Mar 23, 2019

amadeus said:
Again I believe you are wrong for making this a rule. Certainly sometimes people are following their own flesh... but not always. You say it is nothing like the originals but since you were not there and have never experienced the "originals" how could you know what they are? You presume that everyone else had only the "buzz" of your own experience. I don't get a buzz. I talk to God. At the first it was a babble, but the babble became a language...

Give God the glory!

I’m trying to understand everyone’s perspective. When you speak to God in tongues, does he respond in tongues?

Speaking in Tongues a Cessationist View

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