WE ARE NOT NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS

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Doug

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To label the church, the body of Christ, as new testament is not really accurate. Israel was given the new testament.

Psalms 105:8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.

105:9 Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;

105:10 And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Israel was given the covenants, and the law.

Psalm 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.

The law was given to Israel for ever. Jesus did not come to abolish the law.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Jesus upheld the law during his earthly ministry, and also conveyed that during his reign on earth, in his kingdom, the law would be in effect.

Luke 1:5 THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Israel was to obey the law to be righteous before God in their daily life.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Israel was to keep the law to reign with Christ in his earthly kingdom.

Psalm 78:10 They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law;

Israel was rebellious, and failed to be obedient.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

God made a new covenant with Israel. God would cleanse Israel, and by his Spirit, give Israel the ability to keep his law, and covenant.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The covenant, because of Israel's failure to keep it, became old.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

God's new covenant would enable them to keep his law, and provide the righteousness needed to enter the kingdom on earth.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

By this covenant, made to Abraham, the church today, the body of Christ, can claim spiritual benefit; we have, by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, our salvation, our inheritance, and the promised Spirit.

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

Israel's promises have been confirmed by the Lord Jesus Christ. Israel will receive all that God has promised.

The church, in this dispensation of grace, are not truly new testament believers. Today, the body of Christ, has the spiritual blessings of the new covenant, but is not under a covenant. We are under the dispensation of grace, where neither Jew or Greek are under law, but grace. We have received mercy; we are complete in Christ.
 

Doug

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Yes Paul was totaly wrong calling the church the body of Christ.
You had better write to Zonderman or who ever publishes the bible and get them to correct the bible.

Hello
Paul called the church, the body of Christ. I did not refute that. We are in the dispensation of the Grace of God according to Paul. Ephesians 3:2

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

This is the only direct mention of the new testament Paul made. Paul was speaking of the spiritual ministry of the Spirit, as opposed to the law. For Israel the new testament would enable them to keep the Law. Ezekiel 36:27

P.S.
Do you have Zondermans number,,,just kidding
 

Windmillcharge

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For Israel the new testament would enable them to keep the Law

Keeping the law is meaningless. The purpose of the law is to convict everyone of sin.

Salvation is through faith in Jesus. There is no other way for anyone to be saved.

So what if from age 21 you keep the whole law perfectly. what of the years where you have not kept the law?
 
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Doug

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Keeping the law is meaningless. The purpose of the law is to convict everyone of sin.

Salvation is through faith in Jesus. There is no other way for anyone to be saved.

So what if from age 21 you keep the whole law perfectly. what of the years where you have not kept the law?

In this dispensation of Grace we are not under law.

Israel had to keep the law to be righteous to enter the kingdom on earth. Israel did not keep the law for eternal life. Israel as individuals had to have faith in Christ for eternal life. They had to believe Jesus is Messiah, the Son of God.
 

ScottA

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"Bring me a sword."
 

Episkopos

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In this dispensation of Grace we are not under law.

Israel had to keep the law to be righteous to enter the kingdom on earth. Israel did not keep the law for eternal life. Israel as individuals had to have faith in Christ for eternal life. They had to believe Jesus is Messiah, the Son of God.

We are still under the law unless we walk in the Power of the Spirit. The law of sin and death.

Those who sin outside the law perish outside the law.

To enter into eternal life is according to the Spirit. Walk in the Spirit in the power of resurrection.
 
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Windmillcharge

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In this dispensation of Grace we are not under law.

Israel had to keep the law to be righteous to enter the kingdom on earth. Israel did not keep the law for eternal life. Israel as individuals had to have faith in Christ for eternal life. They had to believe Jesus is Messiah, the Son of God.

Ah so you agree that the idea that Israel has to keep the law is rubbish.

As you say Israel as individuals have to have faith in Jesus.
 

Doug

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We are still under the law unless we walk in the Power of the Spirit. The law of sin and death.

Those who sin outside the law perish outside the law.

To enter into eternal life is according to the Spirit. Walk in the Spirit in the power of resurrection.

Hello
For your consideration
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin Romans 3:20
 

Episkopos

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Israel will always be as Jacob once he is transformed AFTER having tussled with God and received a blessing.

Seek the Lord and live.
 
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Doug

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Ah so you agree that the idea that Israel has to keep the law is rubbish.

As you say Israel as individuals have to have faith in Jesus.

Hello
No they are both true for Israel.
Israel does not get eternal life by the law keeping any more than we do. They get eternal life by faith in Christ. They get to enter the kingdom and reign with Christ by keeping the law. That is what the new testament is, God does what Israel can not do by itself; the new testament provides cleansing and the power to keep the commandments to be righteous to enter the kingdom. If they do not keep the commandments they do not go to hell, they are saved, but do not get the kingdom.
 

Windmillcharge

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Israel does not get eternal life by the law keeping any more than we do. They get eternal life by faith in Christ. They get to enter the kingdom and reign with Christ by keeping the law

Make up your mind are sinners saved by faith or by works of keeping the law.

It is one or the other not both.
 

Doug

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Make up your mind are sinners saved by faith or by works of keeping the law.

It is one or the other not both.

Hello
I can't say it is one or the other, sorry.

Israel AS INDIVIDUALS are saved to eternal life by Believing on Jesus, believing in the name of Jesus, believing he is Messiah and Son of God. John 1:12 John 3:16 John 3:18 Mark 1:1 John 20:31

Israel AS A NATION, made of individuals, must be righteous, keep the commandments to ENTER THE KINGDOM AND REIGN WITH CHRIST. Matthew 5:20 Matthew 7:21 Matthew 18:3 Matthew 19:23 John 3:5
 

Windmillcharge

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Hello
I can't say it is one or the other, sorry.

Israel AS INDIVIDUALS are saved to eternal life by Believing on Jesus, believing in the name of Jesus, believing he is Messiah and Son of God. John 1:12 John 3:16 John 3:18 Mark 1:1 John 20:31

Israel AS A NATION, made of individuals, must be righteous, keep the commandments to ENTER THE KINGDOM AND REIGN WITH CHRIST. Matthew 5:20 Matthew 7:21 Matthew 18:3 Matthew 19:23 John 3:5

Yet none of these verses say that one is saved only by good works/keeping the law.
May I remind you of Romans 3:20 which says that no one is saved by following the law.
 

Doug

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Yet none of these verses say that one is saved only by good works/keeping the law.
May I remind you of Romans 3:20 which says that no one is saved by following the law.

Hey
Not being insolent, but you are saying the same thing I am; we are saved today by grace through faith in Christ alone, but you are going back and applying Paul's epistles to the gospels.

The gospels were dealing with Israel and the earthly ministry to Israel. Israel had to believe in the name of Jesus, they had to believe he was their Messiah, that he is the Son of God. Mark 1:1 states the gospel of the Son of God. John says they had to believe on his name. That is faith in believing Jesus. That is the only way they got eternal life. The cross had not happened and although God justified all of us by the cross you cant read that in the gospels. Only Paul tell us about the cross saving Jew and Gentile. In the gospels you can only read that Jesus shed his blood for the new testament for Israel.

The new testament made provision for the remission of their sins under the first testament, and for the Holy Ghost to enable Jews to keep the law NOT FOR ETERNAL LIFE but to reign with Christ in the 1000yr kingdom on earth.
 

Windmillcharge

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Israel AS INDIVIDUALS are saved to eternal life by Believing on Jesus, believing in the name of Jesus, believing he is Messiah and Son of God. John 1:12 John 3:16 John 3:18 Mark 1:1 John 20:31

Israel AS A NATION, made of individuals, must be righteous, keep the commandments to ENTER THE KINGDOM AND REIGN WITH CHRIST. Matthew 5:20 Matthew 7:21 Matthew 18:3 Matthew 19:23 John 3:5

but you are saying the same thing I am

No you are saying Israel is saved by works of the Law.
I am saying Israel is saved through faith in Jesus. That faith might be applied after they had died, but they still had to have faith.
 
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Doug

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No you are saying Israel is saved by works of the Law.
I am saying Israel is saved through faith in Jesus. That faith might be applied after they had died, but they still had to have faith.

Jews had to have faith to be saved unto eternal life.

But, they are still under a covenant, and are required to keep the law to be a friend of God and to enter the kingdom. If they don't keep the law they are still saved unto eternal life, but they don't get the kingdom....they are assigned a place with the hypocrites.
 

Windmillcharge

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Jews had to have faith to be saved unto eternal life.

But, they are still under a covenant, and are required to keep the law to be a friend of God and to enter the kingdom. If they don't keep the law they are still saved unto eternal life, but they don't get the kingdom....they are assigned a place with the hypocrites.

Unfortunetly your theology does not match scripture as Romas 3: But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Note v22 " There is no difference between Jew and gentile." we are all equally sinners and equally saved by Jesus.
 

Doug

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Unfortunetly your theology does not match scripture as Romas 3: But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Note v22 " There is no difference between Jew and gentile." we are all equally sinners and equally saved by Jesus.

Hi

The Jews entering the kingdom has nothing to do with eternal life. The Jews were saved unto eternal life by faith that Jesus is Christ, the Son of God.

Reigning with Christ in the kingdom is a separate, physical salvation.