The Message Of The Cross

soul man · Mar 23, 2019

by Cliff Gardner

I, in Adam, (sin) was poured into Jesus when He took me, the sinner, into His
person—Him, and was identified to God as me, the sinner.
I, in Christ, was crucified in Him (Him as me) on the cross of Calvary that day.
As Jesus’ blood drained from His body, it was being shed for me, as me. The sacrifice of Jesus’ blood was finally the perfect sacrifice for sin that would not need to be done ever again. It was complete! Jesus’ blood went way beyond covering my sin, as did the animal sacrifices under the Old Testament Law. His blood removed my sin! In actuality, His blood redeemed me out from under the law of sin and death.
I, in Christ, Who was the second (perfect) Adam, died that day to who I was.
I was sin, in the first Adam (my human forefather) who disobeyed God and chose to eat the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden.

I, in Christ, was buried and taken to the second death, hell.
I, in Christ, was not left in hell, but was given new life out of death by the working of God’s mighty power in Christ that is greater than sin death and the grave. The old “me” just “cleansed” from my sin and death was not revived. Rather, because “I, the sinner” was actually taken to death in Christ.
“I” in Christ’s resurrection was reborn as brand new creation in Christ. All old identities in sin and self are gone. They have “passed away!” My new identity has to do with Jesus, not who I was in the flesh of Adam. I now have a new spiritual Father, God, and a brand new history!
I am now dead to the past, and my old spiritual father in Adam, Satan.
I, in Christ, arose from the dead, never to die spiritually again. The only aspect of death that I will have to face is in the body of the flesh.
I, in Christ, am already seated in Heavenly places (the “Heavenlies”).
I, in Christ, am left here on earth to “know Him” (Christ), in me.
The apostle Paul said it so succinctly:
“That I might know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable to His death: if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead” (Phil. 3:10-11). This will be brought to reality in my life as I yield my mind to the Holy Spirit’s revelation of the mystery of Jesus Christ in me, through me, as me, as my only life unto God that glorifies Him
(Col 1:26-27)!

bbyrd009 · Mar 23, 2019

not a bad start for a determinist imo

Episkopos · Mar 23, 2019

soul man said:
His blood redeemed me out from under the law of sin and death.

You are getting ahead of yourself a bit here. What takes us away from being under the law of sin and death is not due to the death of Jesus but to His resurrection.

There's a death side to things...and a life side. Life comes from the resurrection of Jesus....as in The law of LIFE in Christ Jesus.

The problem with the flesh is that it must go to the cross of Christ to take it out of the way...since the law is IN the flesh. Then, we are free to take on a new life...a resurrection kind of life by the Spirit.

Romans 7 follows through to Romans 8 as we experience the cross of Christ and the grace that comes to us by His resurrection.

One must actually experience these things....they are not theory.

soul man · Mar 24, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
not a bad start for a determinist imo

byrd you know you must be determined

soul man · Mar 24, 2019

Episkopos said:
You are getting ahead of yourself a bit here. What takes us away from being under the law of sin and death is not due to the death of Jesus but to His resurrection.

There's a death side to things...and a life side. Life comes from the resurrection of Jesus....as in The law of LIFE in Christ Jesus.

The problem with the flesh is that it must go to the cross of Christ to take it out of the way...since the law is IN the flesh. Then, we are free to take on a new life...a resurrection kind of life by the Spirit.

Romans 7 follows through to Romans 8 as we experience the cross of Christ and the grace that comes to us by His resurrection.

One must actually experience these things....they are not theory.

We can handle it, Galatians 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

bbyrd009 · Mar 24, 2019

soul man said:
byrd you know you must be determined

that is a diff subject tho, and does not address He who says he knows which is the position m Gardner has chosen to be in, wadr.

soul man said:
by Cliff Gardner

I, in Adam, (sin) was poured into Jesus when He took me, the sinner, into His
person—Him, and was identified to God as me, the sinner.

No Son of Man may die for another's sins so he is prolly off the rails already, see

I, in Christ, was crucified in Him (Him as me) on the cross of Calvary that day.
As Jesus’ blood drained from His body, it was being shed for me, as me. The sacrifice of Jesus’ blood was finally the perfect sacrifice for sin that would not need to be done ever again. It was complete! Jesus’ blood went way beyond covering my sin, as did the animal sacrifices under the Old Testament Law. His blood removed my sin! In actuality, His blood redeemed me out from under the law of sin and death.
I, in Christ, Who was the second (perfect) Adam, died that day to who I was.
I was sin, in the first Adam (my human forefather) who disobeyed God and chose to eat the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden.

See and now he is just testifying of himself, not realizing what "eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge" even means apparently, "I was this, I became that," all possibly even true from a certain perspective, an ideal perspective. I desire mercy, not sacrifice.

Now I don't even have to ask m gardner's def of Eternal now, nor of his def of "saved," bc he has made it obvious that he seeks Death More Abundantly, and now considers himself in a Special Class bc of some professions that he has made, and see we don't read anything about confessing any sin bc I guess m Gardner considers himself sinless now and has all but said so, and you won't find him Quoting "pick up your cross" anywhere either I bet, bc that cannot comport with "I was crucified that day with Jesus" which is wadr crap too imo, the way he uses it, even if it is true from a certain pov

I don't mean to be hard on the guy ok, and I would even suggest Christ as a type for us to emulate and follow, but that is quite a stretch from this "I'll just say it and that will make it true" stuff ok, "living sacrifice" would be invoked, etc, but mostly he would be able to demonstrate a lack of determinism, or "eating from the tree of knowledge," and wadr you would not have to be deflecting away from the point and covering for him by invoking "determined" either I guess.

See, I am still pretty determined, huh? But I have not made a single deterministic statement in this whole post, bc I do not know for sure, by way of clarifying the def there ok, bc really I'm not interested in dissing some Nehushtan worshipper too much tbh, and would just as soon let him lead on if he likes, and let as many follow what I'm sure will be wildly popular as may.

bbyrd009 · Mar 24, 2019

If you have any discourse by him on "pick up your cross, living sacrifice," or "confession" that might redeem him then bam post a link ok, I don't think he is being intentionally evil or anything, my guess is he's just young prolly, and drunk on being perceived as a leader. If you can find him even saying one of those terms one time I would be interested to see how he treats them

bbyrd009 · Mar 24, 2019

soul man said:
We can handle it, Galatians 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

now how is Epi's post invoking flesh thinking, in your opinion? So see this v is not pertinent there either imo; yes, definitely, having begun in the spirit you must now be made perfect "by the flesh," you must confess, you must change your mind, you must pick up your cross, all things that "the flesh (thinking)" cannot do, but "the flesh (body)" must do.
The v is written that way on purpose imo, so that it will be misquoted by those who do not wanna, basically.

A play on words is being used to suggest that "the flesh profits nothing," or there are even a couple of others in this vein, as of course the flesh is all that can profit, that is after all what Life, More Abundantly is all about, right. Well except for those who believe "to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord," which also cannot be Quoted

bbyrd009 · Mar 24, 2019

soul man said:
The apostle Paul said it so succinctly:
“That I might know Him,

exactly, that I might know Him

soul man said:
being made conformable to His death: if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead” (Phil. 3:10-11). This will be brought to reality in my life as I yield my mind to the Holy Spirit’s revelation of the mystery of Jesus Christ in me, through me, as me, as my only life unto God that

so, I guess he finally gets into the "being made" conformable and the yielding here at the bottom, so I'll agree with him now ok, all that above will be "brought to reality" if rather than "as" he yields, certainly, and I say it that way only bc there is a choice involved which "as" has also occluded right, he means "if/when"

bbyrd009 · Mar 24, 2019

Episkopos said:
You are getting ahead of yourself a bit here. What takes us away from being under the law of sin and death is not due to the death of Jesus but to His resurrection.

There's a death side to things...and a life side. Life comes from the resurrection of Jesus....as in The law of LIFE in Christ Jesus.

The problem with the flesh is that it must go to the cross of Christ to take it out of the way...since the law is IN the flesh. Then, we are free to take on a new life...a resurrection kind of life by the Spirit.

Romans 7 follows through to Romans 8 as we experience the cross of Christ and the grace that comes to us by His resurrection.

One must actually experience these things....they are not theory.

exactly my objections imo, yes, although I'm sure he means well there. His site further reinforces that he has a theoretical belief, which does not at all make him a bad guy, imo he's right where he should be, "leading" ppl to Jesus, where we pretty much all start I guess right

farouk · Mar 27, 2019

soul man said:
We can handle it, Galatians 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

We are going through Galatians now in our church Bible study. It's very searching.

soul man · Mar 27, 2019

farouk said:
We are going through Galatians now in our church Bible study. It's very searching.

Great book with the depth of Paul dealing with the old guard. When he came out of the Arabian desert (my understanding is; that is where he had a revelation of the indwelling Christ, Galatians 1:11-12, 15-16) he had an understanding of pure grace, meaning no law mixed with it.
He gave those in conference with him in Jerusalem, no place to speak, they needed to listen. If you watch Paul closely through his epistles he never mixes law and grace. He may use the law to reference grace but never mixes the two, thank God. He was always trying to convert his people of nationality. Being a Roman citizen afforded him freedom's but still he would land in jail for preaching. Alot of alone time to spend with the lord, as well as write. Paul saw the importance of the cross and knew it was the answer to mankind's plague since the fall, Romans chapter 7, old man out new man in (complete in spirit), and the renewing of the mind to that fact (soul-mind).

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The Message Of The Cross

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