Who is Michael the Archangel?

(Veronica Moser;54560)
Of course not. Where are you going with this?Of course, but this scenario is only analogous to one possible reading of the relevant text, namely yours. I do not find your reading at all plausible, and I will explain why. Firstly, it must be noted that 1 Thessalonians 4:16 ascribes two verbs to the coming of the Lord; It says says that Jesus descends and shouts. Secondly, the text involves a synonymous parallelism; Jesus is said to shout with the voice of the archangel and the trump of God. Any competent student of the Hebrew and Greek Bible will recognise this as a parallelism; the voice of the archangel is the voice of God!
Well then, there is no reason for me to continue this discussion...take care.

("kriss")
Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Hbr 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Hbr 1:5 ¶ For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? The answer to this question is none Hbr 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hbr 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
kriss, what did I say about the nature of angels as opposed to the nature of the archangel? Didn't I say that Christ is no ordinary angel? Didn't I say that the archangel represents God in His totality whereas ordinary angels only represent particular apsects of God? If you do not acknowledge that this is my position, and instead continue to respind to me as if I haven't said anything, then I will be wasting no more time trying to discuss this with you.

("veronica moser")
Of course, but this scenario is only analogous to one possible reading of the relevant text, namely yours. I do not find your reading at all plausible, and I will explain why. Firstly, it must be noted that 1 Thessalonians 4:16 ascribes two verbs to the coming of the Lord; It says says that Jesus descends and shouts. Secondly, the text involves a synonymous parallelism; Jesus is said to shout with the voice of the archangel and the trump of God. Any competent student of the Hebrew and Greek Bible will recognise this as a parallelism; the voice of the archangel is the voice of God!
("verzanumi")
Well then, there is no reason for me to continue this discussion...take care.
So you agree with the paragraph above? Or are you unable to refute it?

(Veronica Moser;54593)
kriss, what did I say about the nature of angels as opposed to the nature of the archangel? Didn't I say that Christ is no ordinary angel? Didn't I say that the archangel represents God in His totality whereas ordinary angels only represent particular apsects of God? If you do not acknowledge that this is my position, and instead continue to respind to me as if I haven't said anything, then I will be wasting no more time trying to discuss this with you.
And just where do you draw this information from where does it tell us an Arch angel is is not called an Angel also ???? It doesn't. As I said from the beginning speculation and assumption in Jewish writings both Satan and Gabriel are also called Arch Angels, and there is a higher rank of Angel called seraphim, .Guess Christ didn't deserve the highest ranking according to your beliefsWhat part of None and All in the verse's I gave(heb1:5-6) didnt you understand????If a an interpretation of one scripture cause discrepancy in scripture your interpretation is wrong not the scripture.

("kriss")
As I said from the beginning speculation and assumption in Jewish wtittings both Satan and Gabriel are also called Arch Angels, and there is a higher rank of Angel called seraphim,
No, the seraphim are not believed to be higher than the archangel. Where did you get that idea?
Guess Christ didnt deserve the highest ranking according to your beliefs
I explicitly said that Christ is the archangel, ie. the highest angel and complete manifestation of God.
If a an interptation of one scripture cause descrepansey in scripture your interpitation is wrong not the scripture.
Indeed!

("Denver")
You absolutely butchered the Greek there
Do tell what exactly I butchered.
Shout, keleusma, is a rallying cry - it can also be a trumpet blast.
Yes, and your point? My point is that "shout" (keleuma), "voice" (phone), and "trump" (salpigx)all refer to one and the same thing! Any comptetent student of Biblical Greek will recognize this.
At the coming of Christ, there are 7 angels, Christ is not an angel.
Christ is not to be identified with any one of those seven, but rather witih all seven together. This is why the Spirit of Christ is referred to as the sevenfold Spirit of God.
It's based upon an assumption that because the Bible uses the term archangel - which, by the way, we already know there to be ranks/types (IE: seraphim and cherubim) - and an extra-Biblical assumption that this is somehow Christ.
There is only one archangel according to the Bible. By definition, the archangel is the supreme Spirit.
It's entirely based on a false sense of "parallelism" (if you could even call it that, really) and a poor interpretation of the Greek.
So you;re going to tell me that there is no parallelism involved in 1 Thessalonians 4:17? Evidently you are a poor student. Why don't we take this issue to the experts at the B-Greek mailing list?
God is absolutely not just an angel!
Please define "just an angel". I get the impression that what you mean by that is not at all what I mean when I say that Christ is the archangel. Man, this has been one of the worst discussions I've ever been involved with. At least let us establish some communication.

(Veronica Moser;54596)
No, the seraphim are not believed to be higher than the archangel. Where did you get that idea?I explicitly said that Christ is the archangel, ie. the highest angel and complete manifestation of God.Indeed!
I ask again where you get your information Angels are greater than man in knowledge, but not omniscient (2 Samuel 14:20; Matthew 24:36). They are more noble than man, but not omnipresent (Daniel 9:21-23, 10:10-14). The Scripture speaks about the creation of angels, therefore, it is clear that they have not existed from all eternity (Nehemiah 9:6; Psalm 148:2,5). Colossians 1:16-17 explains:“For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created by Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.”The word “angel” actually comes from the Greek word aggelos, which means “messenger.” The matching Hebrew word mal'ak has the same meaning.So your Messenger idea doesnt hold waterThe Bible does speak much about classes of angelic beings like So how is it you claim to know which is the higher Rank??which it you check will denote Rank and arch Angel is not the highest. another misconception of yours.First Sphere (Old Testament sources) Seraphim Cherubim Thrones (Gr. thronos) (New Testament sources) Second Sphere (New Testament sources) Dominions (Gr. kuriotes) Virtues (Gr. dunamis) Powers (Gr. exousia)[1] Third Sphere Principalities (Gr. arche)[2] Archangels Angels The Choirs in the second and third spheres, of the present hierarchical list, appear to be also united in pairs. The existence of these pairs of Orders is inferred through their etymological proximity and the apparent affinity in the description of their work-activity (cf. 1 Peter 3:22):Thrones and Dominions (Might, dunamis); Principalities and Powers (Powers, exousia; cf. Eph 6:12); Archangels and Angels (Angels, aggelos). So it seems you have demoted Christ to a third level Angel It was in fact Gabriel that delivered the message to Daniel This word was used as a proper name to designate the angel who was sent to Daniel (8:16) to explain the vision of the ram and the he-goat, and to communicate the prediction of the seventy weeks (Dan. 9:21-27).He also announced the birth of John the Baptist (Luke 1:11), and of the Messiah (26). He describes himself in the words, "I am Gabriel, who stand in the presence of God" (1:19).Satan is also called a prince so is he Christ also?("the prince of the power of the air" (Eph. 2:2))We are not to worship Angels ... Not to be worshiped Colossians 2:18; Revelation 19:10; 22:8,9 )Please give me scripture that says except Arch Angels because Christ is one. Poppycock new age trash as Denver says.Worship of false gods.

Another source of Angel Heiarcy that contradicts your opinionHeirarchy of AngelsSome sort of hierarchy of angelic beings is indicatedin the Bible, although it doesn't give specific details.Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Lord of Hosts,the Chief Commander of All Angelic Beings. Colossians 1:16 says,"For by Him all things were created:things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities;all things were created by Him and for Him." In Ephesians 6:12, we note that there are at least 4 rankings of fallen angels; it says "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood but againstprincipalities, against powers, against rulersof darkness of this age, against spiritual hostsof wickedness in the heavenly places. In 1 Peter 3: 22, we find another "different ranking" of the angelic hosts: "Jesus Christ . has gone into heaven and isat God's right hand with angels, authorities and powers in submission to Him."The hierarchy of angels may be ranked from highestto lowest into nine (9) orders or choirs.SERAPHIM are the highest order of the Hierarchy of Angels.These angelic beings spend their time worshiping and praising God. The prophet Isaiah vividly describesthem in his vision of God: "In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne,high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filledthe temple. Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he coveredhis feet, and with two he flew. And one cried to anotherand said: 'Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; thewhole earth is full of His glory!" (Isaiah 6:1-3). CHERUBIM are the second highest order.The Bible depicts Cherubim as powerful and majestic angelic creatures who surround God's throne (see Ezekiel l :5 - l 4; 28: l 2). They are alsodepicted on the Ark of the Covenant as its Guardians. God sent them to guard Eden after the expulsion ofAdam and Eve: "After He drove the man out, He placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubimand a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guardthe way to the tree of life" (Genesis :24). THRONES are the third ranking order of angels.They were also known as "Wheels" and "the Many-eyed Ones". These Angels were often believed to be deployed like charioteers around the Throne of God. They were described in Ezekiel 1:13-19 as having four wingsand four faces. They sparkled like the color ofburnished brass. They had the hands of a man under their wings. Their wings were joined one to the other and they did not turn when they traveled -they all wentstraight forward. They had four faces. They had the face of a man as well as three other faces on their helmets - that of a lion, an ox, and an eagle. They moved on wheels in the middle of wheels, blue-green in color. Above their heads "the likeness of the firmament," which was the color of crystal,and under this were their wings, two on each side of their bodies. The noise of their wings was "like the noise of great waters."RULERS are the fourth ranking order of angels.This Order of Guardian Angels decide the success or failure of nations. Dominations have been described as wearing long albs, or gowns reaching to their feet,hitched with a golden belt and adorned with a green sole. They carry golden staffs in the right hand andthe Seal of God in the left. At other times, they are said to hold an orb or a specter.VIRTUES are the fifth ranking Order of Angels.They have been called "The Brilliant or Shining Ones." They were called the Angels ofmiracles, encouragement, and blessings, and were particularly involved with people struggling with their faith. Virtues have been said to be the chiefbestowers of grace and valor. The two Angels at the Ascension of Jesus were traditionally believed to befrom the Order of Virtues. Virtues were usually represented in a group.POWERSare the sixth ranking Order of Angels.Powers have been credited as being the first Order of Angels created by God, responsible for maintaining the border between Heaven and Earth. Acting as a sort of elite guard, they constantly watch for demonic attack,and are the major line of defense and battle during heavenly warfare. It is their duty to protect the world from the infiltration of demons. They protectour souls from these evil beings and act as ministers of God who avenge evil in the world. It was also believed that at death, the Powers guided our transition to Heaven.PRINCIPALITIES OR PRINCES are the seventh ranking Order of Angels. The Principalities were considered to be the guardiansover the nations and the leaders of the world. They are assumed to be given more freedom to act than the lesser angels below them and are responsible for carrying out divine acts concerning their area of jurisdiction. It was from this Order that the Angel who aided David in his task of slaying Goliath was thought to have come. Finally, they are given to the task of managing the duties of the angels. Principalities have been described as being dressed in soldier's uniforms with golden girdles.ARCHANGELSare eighth ranking order of angels.Archangel Michael is believed to be the highest ranking warring angel in God's heavenly host. He willplay a special role in the end time: "For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and withthe trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still aliveand are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever" (1 Thessalonians 4:16-1 7).As powerful as Michael is, he does keep tohis proper domain (Jude 1:6) and does not over-exert his authority over his adversary, Lucifer: "Buteven the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dareto bring a slanderous accusation against him, butsaid, 'The Lord rebuke you!" (Jude l: 9). Ultimately, however, Scripture says that he will prevail over Satan (see Revelation 12: 79). Archangel Gabriel is a highest ranking messenger who brought special messages to God's people. In Scripture we find him bringing messages to: Danielto reveal the future events to him (Daniel 8:16; 9:21);Zacharias regarding the birth of John the Baptist(Luke 1 :19) and to Mary to announce the birth of Jesus (Luke l :30).I could post 100 more but all say Sepharim are highest ranking not Arch Angels. So I ask again wher you get your information???????

atrhick,I must tell you the same thing I told kriss. When you do not site the source of your quotes, you are plagiarizing. ("article")
So even though the Bible does not clearly identify Michael with Christ, there is enough biblical information to warrant the view that They are the same person.
A sober and humble analysis.

VERONICA YOU DO NOT MAKE THE RULES AROUND HERE!!!!!!!!!You really got a chip on your shoulder dont you You cant answer questions show scripture all you seem to do is insult and try pushing your weight around. If you want a source try asking.

War in Heaven: Satan cast out when the manchild is caught up (Dan. 11:45-12:1; Isa. 24:21-22; 25:7-8; 27:1)5 facts of war: 1:there will be war 2:the time in the middle of Daniel's 70th week Rev. 12:6-14; 13:1-5, 3:the place: in the Heavenlies v.7; Eph.2:2; 6:12 4:the combatants: v.7 5:the result: v.8-12Refering to the clues of in the O.T. referring to Jesus appearing as the the Archangel Michael , why couldn't Jesus appear as Himself in the likeness of the angel of the Lord,just as He appeared to man as Himself in the likeness of man? I totally agree that most of the time when in the OT it refers to the angel of the Lord is indeed Jesus Christ.I Tim. 2:5; For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and man, the Man Christ Jesus.Michael: Num.13:13;IChr:5:13-14;6:40;7:3;8:16;12:20;27:18; 2Chr.21:2; Ezra 8:8Archangelan. 10:13,21; 12:1; Jude 9; Rev. 12:7Remember angels are messengers of God , but not always God Himself. When you recieve a letter from a friend afar, the letter is not the one who sent it, but the carrier of the one who wrote the message.

VeronicaDominions are one of the ranks of the different ranks of the company of angels spoken of in Hebrews 12:22 which have an indefinite number. It is important to know the classification of angels to better understand the organization of GOD.There are thought to be nine celestial orders of Angels: Colossians 1:16 1. Seraphim2. Cherubim3. Thrones4. Dominions5. Principalities6. Powers7. Virtues (Falsely Suggested)8. Archangels9. Guardian Angels (Suggested by the Catholic Church)There is however, no concrete Biblical proof of the exact ranking order or importance of the different angel groups. The same could be said of the members of the body...http://www.guidedbiblestudies.com/topics/dominions.htmAngelsby Rabbi Geoffrey W. DennisIn Judaism an angel is a spiritual entity in the service of God. Angels play a prominent role in Jewish thought throughout the centuries, though the exact meaning of the word has been subject to widely, at times wildly, different interpretations. A number of numinous creatures subordinate to God appear through the Hebrew Bible; the Malach (messenger/angel) is only one variety. Others, distinguished from angels proper, include Irinim (Watchers/High Angels), Cherubim (Mighty Ones), Sarim (Princes), Seraphim (Fiery Ones), Chayyot ([Holy] Creatures), and Ofanim (Wheels). Collective terms for the full array of numina serving God include: Tzeva, (Host), B'nei ha-Elohim or B'nai Elim (Sons of God), and Kedoshim (Holy Ones). They are constituted in an Adat El, a divine assembly (Ps. 82; Job 1). A select number of angels in the Bible (three to be precise) have names. They are Michael, Gabriel, and Satan. http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/angels.htmlAs I said I good give you 100 more but they all say the same Archangels are not the highest form again you demote Christ. I repeat God is not and Angel

(atrhick;54615)
ok I will form now on.. I dont wan to be a bad whiness or anything.. my sure is as follows.here
You are not a bad witness artick and if one wants your reference Im sure if they ask you would happily provide it.

Atrhick.The point I was trying to bring up before I got side tracked by Veronicawas in Hebrews clearly it says God never asked an Angel to be the Son so that pretty much rules out Michael also.Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Hbr 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Hbr 1:5 ¶ For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? The answer to this question is of course none Hbr 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hbr 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Thats the point veronica there is little bible evidence just the same way there is no evidence an archangel is higer ranking then some of the other angel your saying exactly what I have repeated over and over to you we are told little of the ranking so your claim that archangel is highest has no basis in the bible either it's pure sepculation futhermore you are wrong I have presented all the evidence there is and arch angel are not the highest rank in any of little evidence we have.

Why was my post deleted?